Forum’s UK election voting intentions

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This topic contains 213 replies, has 32 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of angie angie 6 years, 7 months ago.

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  • #55440
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I’m curious how this little electoral niche (British voters with an interest in Spanish property) plan to vote in the upcoming general election. Fortunately I can do an opinion poll and find out. Cast you vote above, if you don’t mind.

    Also, can someone please explain to me how, after all they have done, Labour can be on 33% according to the latest poll for the Sunday Times? Shouldn’t they be facing electoral annihilation? I know Cameron and Osbourne are far from inspiring, but you would think rational voters would be desperate to punish Labour, if nothing else.

    Mark

  • #97117
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    sadly they are all as bad as each other.

  • #97118
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Who, the various Labour parties over the years? If so, totally agree!
    Each time they’re in power they sink the country into a financial mess, leaving the Tories to clear up after them. This time there is the added insane Political Correctness, Health & Safety and Immigration issues to address (as well as the war) that these misguided, moronic, megalomaniac ‘socialists’ have burdened our country with.
    Let’s hope we’ll see some sanity returning to the UK oneday – guess who I’m not voting for. 😉

    Mark asked: “Can someone please explain to me how, after all they have done, Labour can be on 33% according to the latest poll for the Sunday Times?”
    That’s probably all those on benefits, employees of the State, plus immigrants. Yep, that should be around 33%.

    Tin hat is on. 😆

  • #97119
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @charlie wrote:

    That’s probably all those on benefits, employees of the State, plus immigrants. Yep, that should be around 33%.

    Why would immigrants vote for the Labour? Many immigrants came to UK to fill up highly-skilled jobs for which few Brits were qualified… IN my university department the last 10 hirings were all foreigners…

    Do all immigrants in Greece vote for a specific party?

  • #97121
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    Anonymous
    Participant
    mark wrote:
    I’m curious how this little electoral niche (British voters with an interest in Spanish property) plan to vote in the upcoming general election. Fortunately I can do an opinion poll and find out. Cast you vote above, if you don’t mind.

    Also, can someone please explain to me how, after all they have done, Labour can be on 33% according to the latest poll for the Sunday Times? Shouldn’t they be facing electoral annihilation? I know Cameron and Osbourne are far from inspiring, but you would think rational voters would be desperate to punish Labour, if nothing else.

    Mark

    Mark , it is quite simple. Labour whilst bankcrupting Britain have established a sub class of people who never work,women who produce babies on a conveyor belt, quango workers, local council officials who do nothing except worry about positions of dustbins, whether conkers might fall on people´s heads , ban hanging baskets in gardens etc etc. this scum like turkeys are unlikely to vote for Christmas or in their case vote, Tory, as their gravy train will be derailed , at least I hope so by the Tories. Additionally immigrants have been allowed in without control of numbers , some have come to work but plenty to get free dole, housing benefits.

    This scum probably represents 25% of voters the other 7-8% ,making the 33% in the Sunday Times poll, are people who will always vote Labour because they worked” down pit ” or their grandfather always voted Labour.

    The Labour Party as I said has been very clever in ensuring they will never suffer a defeat in line with the Major defeat of 1997. My fear is for a hung parliament which is the last thing Britain needs in its present parlous state. This would lead to another Labour government backed up by the Lib-Dems , who despite their denials will never get into bed with a Tory administration.

    I am so sad when I see the destruction of Britain by the traitors Blair and Brown, I thank God I do not live there any more. Zapatero is a disaster but compared with those two traitors he is a success. He at least puts his own people first, if foreigners want to live here then they live by Spanish rules, no falling over backwards for political correctness, Sharia law etc.
    I must think things are bad in Britain, I am praising Zapatero!!!!!

  • #97122
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Mark. I do not vote for democratic directorship. The voting public is fleeced and trampled upon with total disdain. ( Nothing to do with MP’s expenses they have been at it for decades in form or another ) The same two parties playing musical chairs & fulfilling their ambitions/Agenda.

    With the treatment mentioned above & the voters not punishing the political parties the voters deserve what they get.

    The politicians know that as far as the voters have a job/money two weeks holidays in the sun and money to purchase a season ticket for their favourite football team. They really do not care.

    We should learn from the current political position in Holland. !!!!!!!!

  • #97123
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    How about another option of not voting at all !!!!!!!!!!!

  • #97126
    Profile photo of adiep
    adiep
    Participant

    @mark wrote:

    I’m curious how this little electoral niche (British voters with an interest in Spanish property) plan to vote in the upcoming general election. Fortunately I can do an opinion poll and find out. Cast you vote above, if you don’t mind.

    Also, can someone please explain to me how, after all they have done, Labour can be on 33% according to the latest poll for the Sunday Times? Shouldn’t they be facing electoral annihilation? I know Cameron and Osbourne are far from inspiring, but you would think rational voters would be desperate to punish Labour, if nothing else.

    Mark

    The hung parliament talk just doesnt reflect the reality of what im hearing. People are completely sick of labour and brown. I think it will be a landslide for the tories.

  • #97128
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    There maybe some merit in hoping that Jonah Brown stays where he is and reaps the whirlwind that is coming Britain’s way. It’s not as if he will have any actual say on the economy in any event as the Bond markets & the IMF may be having a word.

  • #97129
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    what short memories people have. What a horrible right wing forum this is turning in to. Has everyone forgotten what a total balls up the Tories made of the economy and why they have been out for so long?. We are all very aware of labours mistakes, but why do people assume the Tories would have done better?. From a personal point of view, I think the Tories are still supported by some of the most revolting selfish people in the country, many who have little interest in social reform, minimum working wage, or treating people in a fair way, (which is obviously why the labour part came about), but from the economic point of view who knows?. I guess the Tories will win the next election because people are sick of Gorden and co, but is the alternative going to improve anything, or will the Tories just blame labour for it’s failings until people are sick of the Tories as well?.

    I think most people feel that rather than fighting between themselves, if the good points from all the 3 major parties could somehow be pooled in to one party, then recovery could probably be much faster, and hopefully the bad historic extremes of all parties could be left behind?

  • #97130
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I think that the majority of Labour’s handiwork is what you would expect from the Tories. Socialising the losses of the Banksters, starting wars everywhere & lots of highly paid people doing non jobs. 1 thing it aint is socialism.

  • #97131
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Mark

    I think Labours relatively high standing in the polls is a reflection of the Tories just as much as themselves. The present government has presided over this economic mess but large sections of voters do not have any confidence that the Tories will do any better hence the closeness of the polls. At the moment the two largest parties present the voters with a Hobson’s choice of mediocrity and lack of leadership. Expect a hung or crippled new parliament because of a very small working majority. Very interesting times.

    Dit

  • #97134
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @DITTER wrote:

    Mark

    I think Labours relatively high standing in the polls is a reflection of the Tories just as much as themselves. The present government has presided over this economic mess but large sections of voters do not have any confidence that the Tories will do any better hence the closeness of the polls. At the moment the two largest parties present the voters with a Hobson’s choice of mediocrity and lack of leadership. Expect a hung or crippled new parliament because of a very small working majority. Very interesting times.

    Dit

    It should be remembered that the only person forecasting the global financial crisis was a liberal democrat financial guru.
    The expences scandal should not be forgotten iether, our local Conservative MP says his was a simple accounting error. Do we really want these empty vessels running the country.
    Time for a radical change in our voting system where we vote for the person not the party then perhaps we can get those with real ability running the country.
    Iether that or give the Lin Dems a go surely they can not do worse.
    Remember we have a labour government because the Conservatives became complacent, some of us remember the 18 percent mortgage rate and the three day week. If you think think things are bad now think of the proposed years of austerity promised by Mr Cameron.
    I expect a number of “labour” defections if the conservatives win.

    I thought everything was wonderful in the UK
    I for one cant wait to leave.

  • #97135
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Perhaps – for balance sake – another poll on who we would vote for here in Spain… (if only we could)

  • #97139
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    “Has everyone forgotten what a total balls up the Tories made of the economy and why they have been out for so long?. We are all very aware of labours mistakes, but why do people assume the Tories would have done better?”.

    Err, didn’t they leave with a balance of trade surplus, of 12,7 billion.

    “Time for a radical change in our voting system where we vote for the person not the party then perhaps we can get those with real ability running the country.”
    Couldn’t agree more.Whiist you have people in a “club” no matter what they say, they’ll always stick to the party line.

    “Iether that or give the Lin Dems a go surely they can not do worse”.
    True.

    “Remember we have a labour government because the Conservatives became complacent, some of us remember the 18 percent mortgage rate and the three day week”.

    Yes, but the 18% didn’t last long & you were getting a decent savings rate.
    “3 day week, The ******* Labour party invented that in the 70’s !!! ‘Winter of discontent’ if you are not that old. I think most people would prefer a “complacent ” gov. not one that has let all the dregs of Europe & illegal immigrants to scrounge benefits, thieve & rob, whilst the decent law abiding, working people are shafted.A country where they alter the law re: n. i. contributions to dis-enfranchise people who have paid all their lives & in doing so create a ” wet foot,dry foot” system whereby anyone who is standing in the country is entitled to full healthcare regardless of whether they have ,or ever will, pay in.

    “If you think think things are bad now think of the proposed years of austerity promised by Mr Cameron”.

    What are the labour , liberals, ukip. bnp, green party going to do then ? Just print money that’s backed by what ?
    The years ahead will be the same regardless of who gets in, it’s just that the present gov., if they were decent, should be using the measures now & not trying to make out that the measures they have put in place are the correct ones. They know how bad it is and what they should be doing but are hoping to muddy the waters up to the election in the hope that they can come out of it without being decimated.Personally, I think that the Queen should have hauled him in & said “you’re not dragging this out for 6 mths., call an election now”.

    Don’t get me wrong, whatever party, they are all crooks , thieves, liars& mostly un-employable. ( Those that ever had a job before ! )I believe that under the present system it’s just a crooks charter & until there is individual accountability you will be stuck with the same old scum.

  • #97140
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    @goodstich44 wrote:

    what short memories people have. What a horrible right wing forum this is turning in to. Has everyone forgotten what a total balls up the Tories made of the economy and why they have been out for so long?. We are all very aware of labours mistakes, but why do people assume the Tories would have done better?.

    Well Goodstich, I am with you on this one!

    I have lived abroad for most of the past 30 years so have never actually been down to the booth and voted, am not sure if i will be there this time for the first time ever to vote.

    But, I was a huge fan of Thatcher and as big a fan of Blair, I don’t go with a party, I go for leadership and conviction really, and both had that in spades.

    I think I read something by Portillo over the weekend before I flew back to Spain and he talked about how we had, had massive inflation in houseprices, spiralling personal debt and banks behaving like Casinos.

    I don’t think the Tories or Cameron have any answers, leadership or conviction about their position, I think Gordon is a dry old stick, I think Mandelson is a right crafty bugger, and I think Darling handled himself quite well over the past two years.

    I have though for quite awhile that the Tories might not find it as easy as they think to win, and Labour are not the Labour of old, I don’t think this whole crisis is their fault, I think they can work it through, and I don’t think a bunch of Eton toffs have any better ideas really.

    Better the devil we have, let them get out of it or not, a narrow margin in favour of Labour and another election in say two years, where they stand up for a new mandate, and the Tories realise, they have to lead, drive and win it by right not by default.

    And you are right Goodstich, people have short memories indeed.

  • #97142
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Gus

    I have enjoyed reading your posts recently, and happen to agree with much you say, however this from a Spaniard takes the biscuit.

    [Don’t get me wrong, whatever party, they are all crooks , thieves, liars& mostly un-employable. ( Those that ever had a job before ! )I believe that under the present system it’s just a crooks charter & until there is individual accountability you will be stuck with the same old scum.]

    Words like pot, kettle, black come to mind or as I say, dog, cat hairy arse.

    😆 [/quote]

  • #97143
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Short memories? Come off it. The Tories have been out of power for 13 years. Whatever the Tories did before 1997, and whatever they might have done had they been in power since then, it’s Labour who have to answer for this mess.

    The Tories biggest fault, it seems to me, is not offering people a conservative choice. In their desperate pursuit of power they are trying to be just like New Labour. People can already vote for New Labour if they want, without having to vote for a Tory knock off. They would have gained more support had they stuck to their principles, me thinks.

    That and the whole Eton/Bullingdon Club thing. Goes down just great with the country at large, I imagine. I just can’t believe that the Tory party has arranged it’s affairs to have a clown like George Osborne as shadow chancellor. They must have a death wish.

    On the question of immigration, the problem is not immigration itself, but multiculturalism, the benefits culture, and the British left that despises its own country. If handled correctly, immigration is a good thing.

    Excuse me if I seem too eager to discuss British politics. I live amongst Spaniards so don’t get much of a chance.

    Mark

  • #97144
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Mark in the present times there is no difference between a Spanish politician or an English one. However In defence of Spanish Politicians n their democracy is relatively new in comparison to mother of all Parliaments.

  • #97145
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    I agree with Mark except for the immigration issue. Cameron seems to emulate Brown and his party. I could never vote lib-dem, all of my University lecturers were liberal, useless airy-fairy people who plagarised their students work, sitting around with crumbs in their beards, stains on their shirts. They really did try to brainwash us students. Some I knew have moved on to be prospective MP’s…ugh! I could never vote labour whilst they have an unelected disfunctional leader. Suppose I would have to go down as “other” although I do not know who that other would be!

    If voting was compulsary guess I would vote Tory. What is suddenly wrong with being public school educated, smells of sour grapes.

  • #97146
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    Anonymous
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    @katy wrote:

    I agree with Mark except for the immigration issue. Cameron seems to emulate Brown and his party. I could never vote lib-dem, all of my University lecturers were liberal, useless airy-fairy people who plagarised their students work, sitting around with crumbs in their beards, stains on their shirts. They really did try to brainwash us students. Some I knew have moved on to be prospective MP’s…ugh! I could never vote labour whilst they have an unelected disfunctional leader. Suppose I would have to go down as “other” although I do not know who that other would be!

    If voting was compulsary guess I would vote Tory. What is suddenly wrong with being public school educated, smells of sour grapes.

    Got to agree with katy about the uni lecturers if and when they turned up they had the stained shirts and the beards with crumbs along with the cord trousers and cornish pasty shoes.
    Most of my lecturers were women.

  • #97149
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    Anonymous
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    Stevev6, I take your remarks as a compliment, unfortunately I am English, born in London. 😀 Yes , I have to agree with you that there’s not a lot of difference just that here everyone knows ( or should do ! ) how the system works. I am like Mark,I live amongst Spaniards & very rarely see anyone British. I personally find all my immediate neighbours extemely well versed on subjects that you would struggle to find an opinion on from people in the UK. Yes, they know all about the corruption & everything else that goes on but they work the system, it was always the only way to survive & goes back generations to before Franco. Yes, they are trying to do something but until you can convince the general public that everyone is in the same boat & it’s not 1 rule for them & another for us it is going to take many,many years. While you have a benefits system, in the UK, that provides housing, money, accomodation without need for any contribution then the immigration ,both legal & illegal, will continue & the exodus of former tax/ NI paying UK citizens will also be unabated. My Spanish friends view with incredulity the fact that it is possible to live without working whilst the gov. pays all your rent,council tax etc.
    I saw all this coming many years ago but thought that eventually the public would wake up & turn things around, unfortunately I was wrong & finally decided that enough was enough & I was off.
    I have held the view ,for many years , that this situation unless reined in will result in a ‘Mad Max’ scenario.

  • #97152
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    “3 day week, The ******* Labour party invented that in the 70’s !!! ‘Winter of discontent’ if you are not that old.”

    Actually the 3 day week was the ******* Tory party and not the ******* Labour party. It occurred when Uncle Ted Heath was prime minister and was a consequence of the 72 & 74 miners strikes. During the strike I remember lots of power cuts and the telly going off most nights at 10:00. The winter of discontent I remember more for the grave diggers strike that saw the dead go unburied.

    It doesn’t surprise me that the Tories are not further ahead in the opinion polls. They strike me as an uninspiring lot whose major attraction is that Gordon Brown isn’t their leader. Not that Labour offers much by way of an alternative. Both parties are afraid to come out and declare their intentions. Both are afraid that describing the nasty medicine they will have to administer to the ailing UK economy will cost them votes. Not voting has never been a more attractive propostition on the other hand their is always ‘The Monster Raving Loony’ party. Now theres a party of the people!!

  • #97153
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Funny this thread has proved more popular than buying spanish property ones 😆

  • #97154
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Apologies, JackTheLad you’re correct. Got carried away their, still they are still all dodgy barstewards, no diff. between the lot of them. Yes, the main parties love the voting system as it is ,no matter what they say. The more bad the news the less inclined people are to vote, leaving the party die-hards laughing & leaving the country in an old type ‘union’ situation where the minority are controlling the majority because of their apathy. The only fair way is compulsory voting,but they’re not going to go down that route, are they?

  • #97155
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    Anonymous
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    A thread with something more controversial than the Spanish property market, well done Mark!

    My view for what’s it worth it’s that politics is a bit like listening to BBC radio 2 most people like something middle of the road hence Radio 2 popularity here in the UK. Our political parties swing either left or right of centre and when they swing too much they become less popular. Labour or should I say NEW Labour came in from the left to the centre while Margret and the Conservatives went from centre to right. The reverse has now happened and the conservatives are more in touch with the Radio 2 listener. 🙂

    Anyone viewing “The Tower Block of Commons” on TV would see that. http://www.channel4.com/programmes/tower-block-of-commons

    I have many reasons for voting conservative this time and that’s less to do with national issues. I live in the district of Bolsover and the Labour party here are bullies and thugs. And that’s from a guy who started life on a council estate in Sheffield and a labour party membership card in his pocket.

    Regards

    Paul

  • #97156
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    all of my University lecturers were liberal, useless airy-fairy people who plagarised their students work, sitting around with crumbs in their beards, stains on their shirts. They really did try to brainwash us students..

    I agree with you, we University lecturers brainwash students by taking from the level of being totally useless that they achieve at the end of secondary schools and bringing them to the level of being useful society members… Many of them oppose to this brainwashing…

  • #97157
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    @mark wrote:

    The Tories biggest fault, it seems to me, is not offering people a conservative choice. In their desperate pursuit of power they are trying to be just like New Labour. People can already vote for New Labour if they want, without having to vote for a Tory knock off. They would have gained more support had they stuck to their principles, me thinks.

    They must have a death wish.
    Mark

    Yep, there you have it, and that’s why I don’t think they are going to get in, I think come the day Labour will come out fighting like madmen and the Tories won’t have a clue.

    I would be all for a change of government after 13 years, but only if it is a real change, that is a party standing up to say what their principles and change policies are and demostrate a leadership position, it is incredible that the Tories don’t have that right now, they should be so far out of sight.

    Loved the comment about Cornish Pasty shoes re Lib Dem University Lecturers, that was sooo funny and true.

    Also I have nothing against the public school types, in fact if Boris Johnson was the leader of the Tories, I would vote for him and them, which seems mad I know – but at least he has a spark, gumption and says it as it is.

    If there is no outstanding alternative, then you go with what you got. Let’s see if the Tories wake up to that fact over the next couple of months.

    And what is going on with the Liberals? They had some pretty good leaders over the past few decades but if you put that guys picture on the table in front of ten people today, I bet 8 out of 10 would not know who he is. I really think they could be the biggest losers this time around.

  • #97159
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    quote=”JackTheLad

    Actually the 3 day week was the ******* Tory party and not the ******* Labour party. It occurred when Uncle Ted Heath was prime minister and was a consequence of the 72 & 74 miners strikes. During the strike I remember lots of power cuts and the telly going off most nights at 10:00. The winter of discontent I remember more for the grave diggers strike that saw the dead go unburied.

    There was also a “Winter of discontent” in ’78/79, when Labour were in power! In 1978–1979, there were widespread strikes by local authority trade unions demanding larger pay raises for their members, because the government of James Callaghan sought to hold a pay freeze to control inflation.

    “The strikes were a result of the attempted enforcement of the Labour government’s attempt to control inflation by imposing rules on the public sector that pay rises be kept below 5%, as an example to the private sector. However, employers conducted their negotiations within mutually agreed parameters with their employees unions. Whilst the strikes were largely over by February 1979, the government’s inability to contain the strikes earlier helped lead to Margaret Thatcher’s Conservative victory in the 1979 general election and legislation to restrict unions. Public sector employee strike actions included an unofficial strike by gravediggers working in Liverpool and Tameside and strikes by refuse collectors. Additionally, NHS ancillary workers formed picket lines to blockade hospital entrances with the result that many hospitals were reduced to taking emergency patients only.”

    AND:

    ” Those who lived through the winter of discontent remember how grim life was in late 1978 and early 1979. Kenneth Morgan gives an apt description of how things were in his biography of Jim Callaghan: “Sick patients went unattended; schools were closed because of strikes by school caretakers or cooks, or just because they were unheated in freezing weather; ambulance men were failing to answer 999 calls; frozen main roads were not being gritted; ( some things haven’t changed!)dustbins and refuse bags piled up in town centres in their tens of thousands, full of rotting and insanitary waste. There were secondary pickets all over the country preventing non-strikers getting through.”

    People do have short memories Goodstich! 😉

    IMO Gordon Brown is an unelected Prime Minister and a megalomaniac. The sooner he gets kicked out the better.

  • #97162
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    “Also I have nothing against the public school types, in fact if Boris Johnson was the leader of the Tories, I would vote for him and them, which seems mad I know – but at least he has a spark, gumption and says it as it is”.

    I agree with you Chris & that’s the problem with all the rest, they all merge into the background, there is not one of them who tells it like it is.

  • #97180
    Profile photo of mike
    mike
    Participant

    @mark wrote:

    Also, can someone please explain to me how, after all they have done, Labour can be on 33% according to the latest poll for the Sunday Times? Shouldn’t they be facing electoral annihilation? I know Cameron and Osbourne are far from inspiring, but you would think rational voters would be desperate to punish Labour, if nothing else.

    Mark

    What would rational voters punish Labour for? They have stopped house prices from falling, unemployment is now falling and it seems that the recession ended in the 4th quarter of 2009.

    I don’t agree, I think there is a terrible price yet to be paid but most people I know think that the government has safely guided us through the “blip” that was the credit crunch.

  • #97181
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    mike
    Participant

    @mark wrote:

    Short memories? Come off it. The Tories have been out of power for 13 years. Whatever the Tories did before 1997, and whatever they might have done had they been in power since then, it’s Labour who have to answer for this mess.

    Just a minute. If the UK were the only country in this mess then I would agree but you do know that the EU has these problems too, as does the US. It’s a systemic crisis, Brown’s fault is that he believed in the system and new paradigm but then so did everyone else apart from a few far sighted people who saw examples of excess in areas such as the Spanish property market 😉

    @mark wrote:

    The Tories biggest fault, it seems to me, is not offering people a conservative choice.

    I think we had a conservative choice, you can’t really describe new Labour as socialist .

  • #97182
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Yeah, but you can’t really describe today’s Conservatives as conservative either.

    Interesting to read all you comments as why Labour is doing so well. That’s the kind of ‘what people are thinking’ information I don’t get here in Spain. And I don’t get it from reading the British press online either.

    We’re in the worst recession in living memory yet Brown saved the economy. Whoever would have thought.

    Mark

  • #97183
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I think there is a lot of misunderstanding regarding Labour and the union situation. I was a member of a large print union in the 70’s and 80’s and saw first hand the lack of respect the tories had for the working man. Many people said at the time and still say how bad the ‘closed shop’ situation was, but if someone was being treated badly, then the only way of getting justice for that person was to stand together. There was a lot of bullying from bosses because they knew they had the backing of the tories. If not for those who fought for trade unions, decent working week, decent wages, decent conditions etc, we would have quite probably still been throwing small children down mineshafts for many years after it was banned!. I don’t think Thatcher had a real concept of a fair deal, because deep down I don’t she respected those who just wanted a steady reasonable wage without wanting to ”better” themselves, but was happy to let those at top end get richer at the expense of the working man just wanting a fair deal.

    In her time she did some good things that can’t be denied, but she also wound up the working man so much that someone like Scargill was bound to come along and go just as extreme the other way. I think the fact that both parties have left their rootes somewhat was an inevitable consequence of what was considered extreme policies on both sides during 70’s and 80’s. The irony to me is that the middle ground is now rightly or wrongly often being seen as a bit limp wristed, but we know what happens when we go to far left or right without constraint!

  • #97184
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Claire wrote:

    quote=”JackTheLad

    Actually the 3 day week was the ******* Tory party and not the ******* Labour party. It occurred when Uncle Ted Heath was prime minister and was a consequence of the 72 & 74 miners strikes. During the strike I remember lots of power cuts and the telly going off most nights at 10:00. The winter of discontent I remember more for the grave diggers strike that saw the dead go unburied.

    There was also a “Winter of discontent” in ’78/79, when Labour were in power! In 1978–1979, there were widespread strikes by local authority trade unions demanding larger pay raises for their members, because the government of James Callaghan sought to hold a pay freeze to control inflation.

    “The strikes were a result of the attempted enforcement of the Labour government’s attempt to control inflation by imposing rules on the public sector that pay rises be kept below 5%, as an example to the private sector. However, employers conducted their negotiations within mutually agreed parameters with their employees unions. Whilst the strikes were largely over by February 1979, the government’s inability to contain the strikes earlier helped lead to Margaret Thatcher’s Conservative victory in the 1979 general election and legislation to restrict unions. Public sector employee strike actions included an unofficial strike by gravediggers working in Liverpool and Tameside and strikes by refuse collectors. Additionally, NHS ancillary workers formed picket lines to blockade hospital entrances with the result that many hospitals were reduced to taking emergency patients only.”

    AND:

    ” Those who lived through the winter of discontent remember how grim life was in late 1978 and early 1979. Kenneth Morgan gives an apt description of how things were in his biography of Jim Callaghan: “Sick patients went unattended; schools were closed because of strikes by school caretakers or cooks, or just because they were unheated in freezing weather; ambulance men were failing to answer 999 calls; frozen main roads were not being gritted; ( some things haven’t changed!)dustbins and refuse bags piled up in town centres in their tens of thousands, full of rotting and insanitary waste. There were secondary pickets all over the country preventing non-strikers getting through.”

    People do have short memories Goodstich! 😉

    IMO Gordon Brown is an unelected Prime Minister and a megalomaniac. The sooner he gets kicked out the better.

    Yes but your original point was that the 3 day week happened during the winter of discontent. It didn’t. It occurred during the Tory government of the early 70s. My memory is perfectly sound thank you very much!!

  • #97185
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @JackTheLad wrote:

    @Claire wrote:
    quote=”JackTheLad

    Actually the 3 day week was the ******* Tory party and not the ******* Labour party. It occurred when Uncle Ted Heath was prime minister and was a consequence of the 72 & 74 miners strikes. During the strike I remember lots of power cuts and the telly going off most nights at 10:00. The winter of discontent I remember more for the grave diggers strike that saw the dead go unburied.

    There was also a “Winter of discontent” in ’78/79, when Labour were in power! In 1978–1979, there were widespread strikes by local authority trade unions demanding larger pay raises for their members, because the government of James Callaghan sought to hold a pay freeze to control inflation.

    “The strikes were a result of the attempted enforcement of the Labour government’s attempt to control inflation by imposing rules on the public sector that pay rises be kept below 5%, as an example to the private sector. However, employers conducted their negotiations within mutually agreed parameters with their employees unions. Whilst the strikes were largely over by February 1979, the government’s inability to contain the strikes earlier helped lead to Margaret Thatcher’s Conservative victory in the 1979 general election and legislation to restrict unions. Public sector employee strike actions included an unofficial strike by gravediggers working in Liverpool and Tameside and strikes by refuse collectors. Additionally, NHS ancillary workers formed picket lines to blockade hospital entrances with the result that many hospitals were reduced to taking emergency patients only.”

    AND:

    ” Those who lived through the winter of discontent remember how grim life was in late 1978 and early 1979. Kenneth Morgan gives an apt description of how things were in his biography of Jim Callaghan: “Sick patients went unattended; schools were closed because of strikes by school caretakers or cooks, or just because they were unheated in freezing weather; ambulance men were failing to answer 999 calls; frozen main roads were not being gritted; ( some things haven’t changed!)dustbins and refuse bags piled up in town centres in their tens of thousands, full of rotting and insanitary waste. There were secondary pickets all over the country preventing non-strikers getting through.”

    People do have short memories Goodstich! 😉

    IMO Gordon Brown is an unelected Prime Minister and a megalomaniac. The sooner he gets kicked out the better.

    Yes but your original point was that the 3 day week happened during the winter of discontent. It didn’t. It occurred during the Tory government of the early 70s. My memory is perfectly sound thank you very much!!

    Errr…I didn’t make “an original point”! 😕 Your memory is obviously not as sound as you think it is!!

  • #97187
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “where the minority are controlling the majority because of their apathy.”

    Hmm, sounds like our urbanization!

  • #97188
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @mark wrote:

    Yeah, but you can’t really describe today’s Conservatives as conservative either.

    Interesting to read all you comments as why Labour is doing so well. That’s the kind of ‘what people are thinking’ information I don’t get here in Spain. And I don’t get it from reading the British press online either.

    We’re in the worst recession in living memory yet Brown saved the economy. Whoever would have thought.

    Mark

    Well, Brown crashed the savers, stopped house price decline to healthier level,
    encouraged crazy borrowing and printed money.

    So yes, he kind of saved the economy by postponing the pain by 1-2-3 years….

  • #97189
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    IMO Gordon Brown is an unelected Prime Minister and a megalomaniac. The sooner he gets kicked out the better.

    Claire, I’m curious. Using your logic, did you have the same feelings about John Major after Maggie was ousted or did you still vote conservative in 1992?

  • #97190
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Did I say I voted Conservative?? John Major was a weak and ineffectual PM, IMO, and I believe there should have been an election. This should happen unless the job becomes vacant because of serious illness or death of the PM of the day. Gordon Brown was hell bent on occupying No. 10. He was all but shoving Blair out of the door.

  • #97192
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Quote flosmichael:

    Why would immigrants vote for the Labour?
    It’s a fact that most do. Read post from 135yearswaiting (page 1) or read some polls taken on the subject.

    Many immigrants came to UK to fill up highly-skilled jobs….
    You sound like Margaret Beckett, Question Time, 1979. And everytime someone questioned her, she screamed “racist” like a raging banshee. You forgot her other cliché….”or are unwilling to do”.
    This comment, however true, has no relevance today regards the impact 3 million immigrants has had in the last 12 years on our schools, housing, NHS and general bank balance. Goodness knows how many there really are, they’re just the ones here officially.
    Try talking to those at Calais (if you can get past the language barrier that is), and ask their motivation for travelling through several EU countries with the sole purpose of getting to the UK. Every one I’ve ever seen interviewed say it’s “to get money and house”.
    Immigration numbers to the UK are unsustainable – even the Labour Party is now admitting something has to be done.

    ….for which few Brits were qualified
    Tell that to the carpenters, plumbers and other skilled Brits. trying in vain to get jobs building the Olympic stadium. Most of the jobs are being given to immigrants as they’ll work for less pay.

    Do all immigrants in Greece vote for a specific party?
    Totally irrelevant question as neither of the main parties have given immigrants benefits on demand as ‘a right’. In any case they are nearly all just ‘passing through’ on their way to the UK.
    And Greece certainly doesn’t do this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1253151/Somali-woman-claim-benefits-burden-social-assistance-landmark-EU-ruling.html

    And no, I am not a racist – more than half my life spent abroad has resulted in me having a multi-national set of friends including an Arab Godson of whom I’m very proud. It’s just a simple fact we cannot afford to ‘save the world’ when we don’t seem able to afford to take care of our own. Note this woman says she “deserves” to be given a bigger house. Note the attitude. What do our millions of pensioners “deserve” is what I am more interested in. It sticks in my gullet to see how thousands of our ‘oldies’ dying of hypothermia each Winter (I know the figure was 37,500 one Winter a few years ago, can’t bear to think how many since then) because they receive a pittance of a pension while countless millions £’s of benefits are paid to the likes of the above Somalian woman.

    I gather from your previous posts when you talked about “my country” that it is not the UK so I don’t expect we will ever have a shared opinion on UK immigration. You see it from your side, I see it from mine.

    Mike asks: What would rational voters punish Labour for?
    Creating a culture where you get fined for blowing your nose while in a stationary car gives you an idea how long my list would be if I made one. 😆

  • #97193
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I say Charlie for PM, he’d get my vote.

  • #97194
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Poppyseed – ‘Charlie’ is my Tibetan Terrier 😆

    …but as PM he’d probably make a better job than this pathetic bunch.
    I’ll tell him he gets your vote!

  • #97195
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Forgot to add my other gripe: how life-saving drugs, and new drugs for painful illnesses like Rheumatoid Arthritis are denied to people because according to N.I.C.E……they are ‘too expensive’.
    OUR PRIORITIES ARE ALL WRONG.
    Gripe over.

  • #97196
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @charlie wrote:

    I gather from your previous posts when you talked about “my country” that it is not the UK so I don’t expect we will ever have a shared opinion on UK immigration. You see it from your side, I see it from mine.

    Then why do you need to write such a long message about your opinion which is different from mine? I guess you can use your time in a more efficient way…

  • #97197
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    So if I have a different opinion to yours, I’m supposed to “use my time more efficiently” by not replying. 🙄

    Hello – it’s a forum.
    This is how it’s supposed to go flosmichael. You offer your opinion and other people offer theirs.

    We certainly don’t have to share the same opinions, heaven forbid – no debate in that, is there? Get it now?

  • #97200
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Excellent post charlie, agree with every word. That’s why I gave up & left.

  • #97201
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @charlie wrote:

    So if I have a different opinion to yours, I’m supposed to “use my time more efficiently” by not replying. 🙄

    Hello – it’s a forum.
    This is how it’s supposed to go flosmichael. You offer your opinion and other people offer theirs.

    We certainly don’t have to share the same opinions, heaven forbid – no debate in that, is there? Get it now?

    Of course you can reply, but say something in your reply….

    In what concerns which one is my country and which one is your country: I live in UK and I shall continue to do so for at least 27 years till retirement. I pay taxes, I teach students, my wife pays taxes, my kids go to school in UK.

    You live in Greece.

    I am much more affected by UK government that you are.

  • #97205
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Well said charlie, it seems quite a few original posters are now leaving because their opinions are always called negative or repetitive, all of which could be addressed with a permanent heading re ‘Pitfalls of buying in Spain’ which I understood we were getting. 🙄

  • #97206
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @angie wrote:

    Well said charlie, it seems quite a few original posters are now leaving because their opinions are always called negative or repetitive, all of which could be addressed with a permanent heading re ‘Pitfalls of buying in Spain’ which I understood we were getting. 🙄

    New members to the forum if looking at problem areas would automatically look on the problems problems threads.
    There is comparatively little there with most of the problems being aired on every thread other than problems.
    Therefore many problems could be overlooked.
    Post your problems in the problems area for all to see.
    Ps I will try to do the same.

    Remember its a forum dedicated to giving a broad insight to Spanish property and not narrowed to problems only.
    Remember that your problems are related to you personally and not related to the whole of Spain or its people.
    Not every ex pat has a horror story. Though I fully support those who have.

  • #97207
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    OK Vilprano, will post in problems page anything that needs to hang around for all to see, although this was once deleted regarding Alhaurin Golf problem builds. 😉

  • #97210
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    My own “take” on the subject of the forth-coming election is one of impending doom.
    When the Labour party cocked everything up in the past there was always a large contingent of knowledgeable MPs with experience ready for when the Conservatives (usually!) came back in to government.
    This time we have a slightly left-of-centre party called New Labour whose main opposition is a slightly right-of-centre party called the Conservative Party, neither of which has any real talent with the present government living on borrowed time.
    We also have a third party which most refer to as the Also-Rans who often seem to rearrange their policies to be slightly different to the main protagonists whilst still retaining the same meaningless drivel they are famed for.
    After that come looneys.
    That’s it.
    God help us!
    stevmk2

  • #97216
    Profile photo of mike
    mike
    Participant

    @charlie wrote:

    Mike asks: What would rational voters punish Labour for?
    Creating a culture where you get fined for blowing your nose while in a stationary car gives you an idea how long my list would be if I made one. 😆

    Agreed. And the misuse of the anti-terrorism laws is frightening.

  • #97219
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @flosmichael wrote:

    Of course you can reply, but say something in your reply….

    I thought I did 😯
    …..well at least Poppyseed, guslopez and angie liked my post. 😀
    Instead of turning this into a dispute rather than a debate, why not reply to my points like I did yours and be a bit grown-up about it?

    He then wrote:

    In what concerns which one is my country and which one is your country:

    I live in UK and I shall continue to do so for at least 27 years till retirement. I pay taxes, I teach students, my wife pays taxes, my kids go to school in UK.

    You live in Greece. (and you forgot to say “and the rest of you lot live in Spain…”)

    I am much more affected by UK government that you are”.

    Oh here we go – an immigrant telling the Brits. living overseas that UK is now more their country than ours.

    Let me explain something to you sunshine. I would guess many here on this forum are like me: I still pay UK taxes, still own a home there, still have immediate family/friends there and may return when I’m old and wobbly, who knows. As with jiminspain, I may have to return anytime due to circumstances. So what happens to my country is very much of prime concern.

    This thread is about the forthcoming election. As we’ve learned from this shabby lot in power at the moment, whoever is elected can take the country down a certain route. The result can affect our laws, taxes, NHS, schools and even society in general. In the longer term that affects us all, not just immigrants who happen to be there at the time.

    Yes you work there, pay your taxes – good for you. And am sure it’s because you feel you’re able to have a better life than if you had stayed in the country where you were born (at a guess from your previous posts I would say Romania….grandfather died at Stalingrad etc….only Romanian units fought alongside the Nazis in that battle). But the bottom line is – and this may irk you – it will always be my country and my heritage more than it will ever be yours, and I don’t need an immigrant to tell me otherwise – regardless of how long they plan to take advantage of the better life UK has to offer compared to their own country.

  • #97220
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Ouch!!

    Charlie is a tough adversary and passionate about things close to her heart. I know…I’ve worked alongside! 😉

    Good posts Charlie. 🙂

  • #97221
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I deleted my posting to avoid any further Charlie’s owner rants.

    This is not a Forum about Brits views on immigration.

  • #97222
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “I am lucky enough to be surrounded by educated people….not Daily Mail readers who call immigrant everybody who was not born in UK”.

    I used the correct term in your case according to my language:

    Definition of immigrant –
    A person who leaves one country to settle permanently in another.
    v. im·mi·grat·ed, im·mi·grat·ing, im·mi·grates. v.intr. To enter and settle in a country or region to which one is not native.

    Even Daily Mail readers can know their own language. Incidentally, I am an ex-English language teacher so it’s a bit pointless trying to pick me up on my word usage.

  • #97223
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @flosmichael wrote:

    This is not a Forum about Brits views on immigration.

    No, but this thread is about the forthcoming elections. And believe me, the subject of immigration features heavily on how people will vote hence the subject is here.

  • #97224
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @charlie wrote:

    @flosmichael wrote:
    This is not a Forum about Brits views on immigration.

    No, but this thread is about the forthcoming elections. And believe me, the subject of immigration features heavily on how people will vote hence the subject is here.

    OK, but all this “discussion” started from your assertion that all immigrants vote for Labour because they like to drain UK finances.. Which I hope you realise that it is a wrong statement.

  • #97225
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    There is a difference between ‘most’ (the majority) and ‘all’ (everyone). Please don’t misquote me, I didn’t say “all immigrants”.
    Flosmichael: Why would immigrants vote for the Labour?
    Charlie: It’s a fact that most do.

  • #97226
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Excellent posts Charlie! Your recall and communication skills are awsome 😀

    Some immigrants did enrich the country in the past. However, for a decade the millions who have arrived have solely done so to live on benefits. They vote en-bloc for the Labour party assisted by activists who fill out the voting forms for them. They don’t care what happens to the UK as long as they can continue to get state hand-outs.

  • #97227
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @charlie wrote:

    There is a difference between ‘most’ (the majority) and ‘all’ (everyone). Please don’t misquote me, I didn’t say “all immigrants”.
    Flosmichael: Why would immigrants vote for the Labour?
    Charlie: It’s a fact that most do.

    Fact from “Daily Mail”? 🙄

    Or you have some insight information from the Crete’s Information Centre? 😀

  • #97228
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Before you all rush off to vote Conservative check the history of the candidate, many who have spent decades toeing the labour party line have been repositioning themselves over the last 12 months.
    Our county election was largely dominated by pseudo conservatives put there by friends to ensure that they controlled an extra voice. Consequently we now have a lot of dross in the council chamber.
    So dont be fooled into thinking that those standing under the Conservative banner are long standing party members.
    So this time more than ever be on your guard and do your homework

  • #97233
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
  • #97249
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Claire wrote:

    @JackTheLad wrote:
    @Claire wrote:
    quote=”JackTheLad

    Actually the 3 day week was the ******* Tory party and not the ******* Labour party. It occurred when Uncle Ted Heath was prime minister and was a consequence of the 72 & 74 miners strikes. During the strike I remember lots of power cuts and the telly going off most nights at 10:00. The winter of discontent I remember more for the grave diggers strike that saw the dead go unburied.

    There was also a “Winter of discontent” in ’78/79, when Labour were in power! In 1978–1979, there were widespread strikes by local authority trade unions demanding larger pay raises for their members, because the government of James Callaghan sought to hold a pay freeze to control inflation.

    “The strikes were a result of the attempted enforcement of the Labour government’s attempt to control inflation by imposing rules on the public sector that pay rises be kept below 5%, as an example to the private sector. However, employers conducted their negotiations within mutually agreed parameters with their employees unions. Whilst the strikes were largely over by February 1979, the government’s inability to contain the strikes earlier helped lead to Margaret Thatcher’s Conservative victory in the 1979 general election and legislation to restrict unions. Public sector employee strike actions included an unofficial strike by gravediggers working in Liverpool and Tameside and strikes by refuse collectors. Additionally, NHS ancillary workers formed picket lines to blockade hospital entrances with the result that many hospitals were reduced to taking emergency patients only.”

    AND:

    ” Those who lived through the winter of discontent remember how grim life was in late 1978 and early 1979. Kenneth Morgan gives an apt description of how things were in his biography of Jim Callaghan: “Sick patients went unattended; schools were closed because of strikes by school caretakers or cooks, or just because they were unheated in freezing weather; ambulance men were failing to answer 999 calls; frozen main roads were not being gritted; ( some things haven’t changed!)dustbins and refuse bags piled up in town centres in their tens of thousands, full of rotting and insanitary waste. There were secondary pickets all over the country preventing non-strikers getting through.”

    People do have short memories Goodstich! 😉

    IMO Gordon Brown is an unelected Prime Minister and a megalomaniac. The sooner he gets kicked out the better.

    Yes but your original point was that the 3 day week happened during the winter of discontent. It didn’t. It occurred during the Tory government of the early 70s. My memory is perfectly sound thank you very much!!

    Errr…I didn’t make “an original point”! 😕 Your memory is obviously not as sound as you think it is!!

    Apologies I should not have assumed you were the original poster.

  • #97250
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @JackTheLad wrote:

    Apologies I should not have assumed you were the original poster.

    Apology accepted. 🙂 It’s best never to “assume” anything on this forum! 😉

    Edited to say , I should follow my own advice! 😳

  • #97300
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Will this give people food for thought when voting?
    (sent to me this morning, from a friend living in Spain! ) I would have put it in the “Humour” thread…but it’s rather more factual!

    LET ME SEE IF I GOT THIS RIGHT.

    *IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOUR.*

    *IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY.*

    *IF YOU CROSS THE AFGHAN BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU GET SHOT.*

    *IF YOU CROSS THE SAUDI ARABIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE JAILED.*

    *IF YOU CROSS THE CHINESE BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU MAY NEVER BE HEARD FROM AGAIN.*

    *IF YOU CROSS THE VENEZUELAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE BRANDED A SPY AND YOUR FATE WILL BE SEALED.*

    *IF YOU CROSS THE CUBAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE THROWN INTO POLITICAL PRISON TO ROT.*

    *IF YOU CROSS THE U.K. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET*

    * A JOB*

    * A DRIVERS LICENCE*

    * SOCIAL SECURITY CARD*

    * WELFARE PAYMENTS*

    * FOOD STAMPS*

    * CREDIT CARDS,*

    * SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE*

    * FREE EDUCATION*

    * FREE HEALTH CARE*

    * A LOBBYIST IN WESTMINSTER*

    * BILLIONS OF POUNDS WORTH OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN

    YOUR LANGUAGE*

    * MONEY TO GO HOME IF YOU DO NOT LIKE IT IN THE UK.

    * THE RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR COUNTRY’S FLAG WHILE YOU

    PROTEST THAT YOU DON’T GET ENOUGH RESPECT*

    * AND, IN MANY INSTANCES, YOU CAN VOTE.*

    * I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I HAD A FIRM GRASP ON THE SITUATION…*

  • #97301
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    This posting really does not deserve an answer but:

    > *IF YOU CROSS THE U.K. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET*
    > * A JOB*

    What job? To do something that lazy benefit-loaded Brits do not want to do anymore because they cannot be bothered? Or to fill highly-skilled jobs that Brits are not anymore trained to perform?

    > * A DRIVERS LICENCE*

    Only EU licenses can be changed for a British ones. The same as Brits can obtain in other EU country. If one comes from outside EU, the procedure is the same as for any UK citizen.

    > * WELFARE PAYMENTS*

    In USA they give you about 20% reduction in taxes if you have 2 kids. Plus about 10% reduction if you are married. UK does not give anything for married people and about 5% of the salary for 2 kids as child benefit (maybe 10% for low salaries).

    > * CREDIT CARDS,*

    If one does not have UK credit history there is no possibility to get credit cards or you get a 50% APR.

    > * SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE*

    I do not know about subsidized rent but mortgages are hard to get even if one comes to UK legally. It was quite easy during the credit boom but then anybody with a pulse could get one.

    > * FREE EDUCATION*

    Almost everywhere in the world the education is free. And in many other countries schools are decent, unlike UK where one has to move to specific areas to get good education.

    * FREE HEALTH CARE*

    Again, this is offered everywhere in Europe.

    > * MONEY TO GO HOME IF YOU DO NOT LIKE IT IN THE UK.

    This is valid for almost all countries.

    > * AND, IN MANY INSTANCES, YOU CAN VOTE.*

    Why not? In any country in the world one gets the right to vote after living for some time.

  • #97303
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The next general election will not be won and lost on the issue of immigration no matter how much the bigoted right wants it to be. As ever, it’s the economy stupid!

    Dit

  • #97306
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @DITTER wrote:

    The next general election will not be won and lost on the issue of immigration no matter how much the bigoted right wants it to be. As ever, it’s the economy stupid!

    Dit

    Ditter whatever anyone thinks about the above posts you are right that the economic situation will be the issue that matters most.
    Regardless of the current situation and its causes Labour have all the facts at their fingertips, whether they have the collective nouse to put things right is arguable.
    The conservatives have little grasp of what really matters to the ordinary man in the street and have spent over a decade wondering how much they can get away with plundering from the expense budget.
    They are depending on George Osborne whos credibility as an ambassador for britain has been questioned.
    They have dragged wily old coyote Kenneth Clarke back from the doldrums to give him a crash course on economics.
    The economy is growing slowly at last, the result of this election could make or break our recovery. Its a close call perhaps a hung parliament wont be a disaster..
    The only sure thing is we will be taxed to the limit.
    The tories have criticised all the hidden taxes put in place by labour.
    But there is no chance of them getting rid stand by for more of the same.

  • #97307
    Profile photo of rt21
    rt21
    Participant

    I regret to say that at this point in time I am so undecided about both main parties that I may well decide not to vote.

    I feel that the Conservative’s social policies are more in line with my own but have grave reservations about their economic policies. This is really ironic because I believe that Labour’s handling of the economy has got us in to the mess we are in. However, we are where we are and at this point in time I feel that Labour’s policy of phased cuts is a better solution than the conservative one. I also believe that the recent fall in the conservative’s polling popularity is down to people being afraid of their economic policies.

    On a personal level I would hate to see a happy smiling Gordon on the doorstep of No 10 the day after the election. However, that is not a good enough reason for me to get out and vote.

    Richard

  • #97308
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @rt21 wrote:

    I regret to say that at this point in time I am so undecided about both main parties that I may well decide not to vote.

    I feel that the Conservative’s social policies are more in line with my own but have grave reservations about their economic policies. This is really ironic because I believe that Labour’s handling of the economy has got us in to the mess we are in. However, we are where we are and at this point in time I feel that Labour’s policy of phased cuts is a better solution than the conservative one. I also believe that the recent fall in the conservative’s polling popularity is down to people being afraid of their economic policies.

    On a personal level I would hate to see a happy smiling Gordon on the doorstep of No 10 the day after the election. However, that is not a good enough reason for me to get out and vote.

    Richard

    Exactly my point I am a card carrying conservative of many years standing and am involved in local politics.

    The behaviour of our local conservative group has led me to have grave doubts about their ability. A large number of our county council candidates were selected by friends and family and their willingness to blindly follow the party line. The fact that they had never been a conservative and in some cases had spent many years voting against every conservative motion at district level mattered not.
    They relied on the tory faithful following the party line.
    This has left me wondering where to place my cross.
    However not voting should never be an option for anyone. This is a right fiercly fought for and one of the areas in our life that is not yet taxed.

  • #97309
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    It’s interesting to see that although only a few in number, the above posters are not sure about their voting tactics. It came as a surprise to me that my husband is of the same indecision. He can’t stand Brown, thinks Cameron is another Blair, and whose Conservative values have gone too far left, that Osborne is a prat and that the only politician worth a vote is Vince Cable.

    On a personal level I would hate to see a happy smiling Gordon on the doorstep of No 10 the day after the election.

    I agree 100% Richard.

    However, that is not a good enough reason for me to get out and vote.

    IMHO I think everyone has a duty to vote, especially in this upcoming election.

    Flosmichael,
    Your post does not deserve a response either. On another note ask for a “Sense of Humour” transplant next time you visit a doctor.

  • #97311
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Claire wrote:

    It’s interesting to see that although only a few in number, the above posters are not sure about their voting tactics. It came as a surprise to me that my husband is of the same indecision. He can’t stand Brown, thinks Cameron is another Blair, and whose Conservative values have gone too far left, that Osborne is a prat and that the only politician worth a vote is Vince Cable.

    On a personal level I would hate to see a happy smiling Gordon on the doorstep of No 10 the day after the election.

    I agree 100% Richard.

    However, that is not a good enough reason for me to get out and vote.

    IMHO I think everyone has a duty to vote, especially in this upcoming election.

    Claire this indecision is very much a widely held view amongst the chattering classes and will probably only be decided on the day.
    As you so rightly say Vince Cable is the only credible option on purely financial grounds.
    After all worldly wise Vince actually forecast the financial crisis.
    I was heartened that the labour party had consulted him in this regard and if they are taking this mess seriously it may swing my vote.
    However as a Scot it pains me to say that Gordon is not the man for the job it does require someone wo is a bit “scottish” in the financial sense but I cant see anyone outstanding apart from Vince.
    Do we really want to plunge into the unknown?
    Im not so sure.

    Flosmichael,
    Your post does not deserve a response either. On another note ask for a “Sense of Humour” transplant next time you visit a doctor.

  • #97313
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Claire wrote:

    Flosmichael,
    Your post does not deserve a response either. On another note ask for a “Sense of Humour” transplant next time you visit a doctor.

    Those in glass houses should not throw stones.

    Read less Daily Mail and use your brain more.

  • #97315
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Read less Daily Mail

    WRONG AGAIN. 🙄

    My brain gets plenty of exercise. Thanks for your concern though. 😀

  • #97319
    Profile photo of adiep
    adiep
    Participant

    @Claire wrote:

    IMHO I think everyone has a duty to vote, especially in this upcoming election.

    Totally agree. The threat of a hung parliament is destroying the pounds value against the euro, costing me a bloody fortune. If Labour win, the country will lose its AAA credit rating, which also cost the country a bloody fortune.

    Only one way to go here folks, thats for the tories. Lets allow them to make Britain business friendly again – before its too late.

  • #97399
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Mark

    A lot of interesting replies to your initial question about peoples voting intentions and just a few inevitably mixing up name calling with intelligent debate. I was intrigued by Lennox’s statement that he was not allowed to vote in a Spanish general election as lots of expats (and presumably him self) will be able to vote in the next UK election. As the result might hang on a very few votes the expat vote could be significant to the outcome. Do many expats vote? are any of you living in Spain intending to vote this coming spring ?

    Dit

  • #97406
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    adiep

    considering how unpopular Gordy is, I think it’s suprising how close the opinion polls are. I’m sure most people want change, but if the tories are the best or only alternative then there doesn’t look like much confidence in change or improvement? An alternative party with any real credability would surely have a landslide win at the moment, but is there any party that’s saying what the majority of people want to hear?

  • #97408
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    goodstich:

    Isn’t that the problem?

    We don’t need a party saying what the people want to hear, we need a party saying what they NEED to hear!

  • #97409
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @DITTER wrote:

    …..and just a few inevitably mixing up name calling with intelligent debate.

    ….are you referring to when you called those concerned about the repercussions of unending mass immigration “the bigoted right”?

    Interesting that the Libs and UKIP are level pegging. If only Vince Cable would move over to UKIP……
    I wonder when this ditherer of a PM is actually going to name a date for the election or is he going to give us all just a week’s notice?

  • #97410
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    ‘Populus’ carried out a poll for The Times showing that Labour and the Conservatives are now neck and neck in the marginal seats.

    Populus repeated a question that proved revealing in the 2008 US presidential campaign, on whether change or experience was needed most. In the US, the margin for change over experience was about 2 to 1, highlighting Barack Obama’s edge over John McCain.
    In Britain, 56 per cent favour change and 40 per cent experience.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7054655.ece

  • #97417
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    rob6578

    well yes, but if they don’t like it?. How does a party tell people that they will have to make cuts without the people wanting to hang the messenger?, and who will agree on where the cuts have to be made and by whom?

  • #97428
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    goodstich:

    I agree, but there has to some way or we will just end up with another 5 years of decline.

  • #97446
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    rob6578

    yes, I think that’s the way most of us feel. Apart from the feeling that ‘things can’t get worse’ under the Tories’ though, I don’t see any policies coming from them that will make things better? If there is way out without going to far right or left, nobody seems to be shouting about it?

  • #97450
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @goodstich44 wrote:

    rob6578

    yes, I think that’s the way most of us feel. Apart from the feeling that ‘things can’t get worse’ under the Tories’ though, I don’t see any policies coming from them that will make things better? If there is way out without going to far right or left, nobody seems to be shouting about it?

    Most people I speak to are in the dont know which way to jump category.
    There will always be those that vote for the party regardless, however this time there is a great deal of indecision and the feeling that there is not enough coming from any party to sway them one way or the other.
    I feel many decisions will be made “on the day”.
    One certain outcome I feel is that regardless of the outcome things will definately get worse.
    DC has already stated that we are in for a tough time if the tories win.
    Vince cable seems like the man for the job in regard to the economy so Im keeping my powder dry for the time being, the TV debates may give us some insight.

  • #97452
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    vilprano

    yes, is there much to choose between them?. I liked the idea of the TV debate, but I think it will probably just be a mud slinging contest with no real value?

    As for things getting worse, that’s the dilema for all parties. How do you sell yourself with realistic but bad news and plans to make things worse before they can get better? I wonder if a party was really brave (or some might say stupid?) enough to lay hard facts on the line wheather they would gain respect for honesty?, or would what ever measure be seen as hitting the wrong people?

  • #97453
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I believe the Labour party have been in power for as long as they have by default.
    until Cameron came along, there was no one even close to electable as Prime minister in the Conservative party. (with the possible exception of Kenneth Clark, had he been leader)

    Who remembers William Vague?
    Who remembers Ian Duncan Whatever??

    Cameron aint perfect but he is electable

  • #97454
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I feel many decisions will be made “on the day”.

    I think that’s the nail on the head and in my experience of fighting local elections it’s often the party (or group) that manages to get ‘their’ vote out on the day that wins. Quite often these days it’s about persuading the others sides vote not to vote at all, rather than changing their mind.

    i would suggest it will be a low vote so every non vote will count, if you see what i mean.

    regards

    Paul

  • #97455
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    p800aul

    I think you might be right, though as others have said, it would be a great shame as the vote was fought so hard for. I’m not sure though if many people want to feel responsible for either outcome, such is the lack of confidence?

  • #97456
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @p800aul wrote:

    I feel many decisions will be made “on the day”.

    I think that’s the nail on the head and in my experience of fighting local elections it’s often the party (or group) that manages to get ‘their’ vote out on the day that wins. Quite often these days it’s about persuading the others sides vote not to vote at all, rather than changing their mind.

    i would suggest it will be a low vote so every non vote will count, if you see what i mean.

    regards

    Paul

    I feel that this is about right I am involved in local politics and spend much time door knocking and its very much about getting your voters out and indeed convincing the others its a done deal and its a waste of time voting.
    There will be mass knocking up exercises, expect a note through your door very early in the morning on polling day and canvassers calling throughout the day to get every vote they can.
    I was initially impressed by cameron but Im not sure hes up to the job now, its a pity he didnt dump Osborne when he misbehaved as he is not the most financially astute chancellor type.
    Goodstitch the Liberals have been telling it like it is for many years but it hasnt done them much good.
    Time for a hung parliament I think and good old vince sorting out the mess.
    The expenses row along with the bankers bonuses will be playing on everyones mind, the man in the street does not forget easily.
    Whatever you think its time to forget party politics and vote for whats good for you and yours.

  • #97458
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Interesting that it’s started all ready

    Our local MP “The Beast of Bolsover” has been out already and maybe he’s the man we need, as clearly he thinks he’s (once again) our savour.

    I quote:

    “DENNIS SKINNER REPORTS TO THE PEOPLE

    In all my years in parliament I have never forgotten that I work for you. You put me there to do a job and the last period has seen the most important job of all – saving the world economy from collapse”

    I kid you not that’s verbatim

    Thanks Dennis, we owe you one 😉

  • #97467
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    p800aul

    well he’s anti-war, anti-toff, and a man of the people, so he could do well?

  • #97473
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    goodstich

    Yep he was anti war one of the few times he’s been a rebel. His voting record shows him to be quite a moderate and loyal supporter of the Labour govenment.

    http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/mp.php?id=uk.org.publicwhip/member/1430&showall=yes#divisions

    anti-toff

    yep you don’t even see his lips move on rememberance Sunday. even when you’re up close!

    regards

    Paul

  • #98014
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I thought that I would resurrect this thread to see if the polling figures would change as dramatically as the national polls have in favour of the Lib Dems. I bet “Dave & Gordie” wish the “debate” platforms on TV had never been thought of!!

  • #98023
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Compulsory voting, that’s the only way to go but that will never happen as for the main parties it would be all loss & no gain.
    Then some form of proportional representation, as at the moment we have a population of 61 million, a voting turnout of 36,5 million & the majority party normally gets about 40% of the vote. So you have less than 15 million people electing a government for 60+. Just like the old unions were run, the few control the majority because of apathy. As someone once said, ” anyone who wishes to be a politician, should be immediately banned from standing”. I’d add to that ” & shot “.
    Running a government , or a local council, is the same as running a business the idea being to be in surplus at year end ,not overspend & put up taxes continually, or find more ways to fleece the taxpaying public !
    I’d vote for the honest one who could stand up & tell some truth, but then they’d have no chance of being elected under the present system.

  • #98026
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The “proportional representation” is the key factor IMO. As it stands now, the Labour party have been able to get away with changing the electoral boundaries making it that the Conservatives need an almost impossibly huge majority to have a chance of getting in. The Lib Dem “bounce” would make that impossible if the current poll trend follows through on election day.

  • #98030
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Proportional representation isn’t necessarily a good thing. It can lead to an endless series of chronically weak, fractious governments. Just look at Italy.

    The Nick Clegg story is just media mischief. It gives the press a good story but I doubt it will make much of a difference to the final result. The fact that it is even a story reflects badly on Cameron. He should be romping towards victory.

    Very true Gus. A motivated minority choose the government. You need an inspirational leader to get the majority to vote, but inspirational leaders can be dangerous too. History is littered with inspirational despots.

    Whoever wins, I predict that increasing numbers of Brits will want out.

  • #98031
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    It is frightening how many people are ignorant of the political parties and their policies, let alone how many will not bother to vote. If Labour get in again, we certainly will consider our future here!

  • #98033
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    so now the british public are ignorant are they, that I doubt. some maybe dont give a damn, some know it will make no difference who gets in, why, because over the years I’ve heard the leaders say they have learnt from there mistakes, and now they know the way forward, but they are still making the same mistakes. So one thing is for sure the british public are not IGNORANT.

  • #98035
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    So one thing is for sure the british public are not IGNORANT.

    Coming from you , that’s surely a joke! 😆

    Look at some of the street interviews on TV..by their own admission…THEY ARE IGNORANT of politics. (but then that depends upon one’s own intelligence in the first place!)

  • #98036
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    There are a number of European countries that are well run by coalition governments. Make no mistake if the Liberal Democrats hold the balance of power Proportional representation will be very high on the agenda, probably after making Vince Cable the Chancellor of the Exchequer. David Cameron has no absolute right to win this election despite the abysmal Labour government, and the fact that he is not is a reflection on the man himself and the party he leads.

    Dit.

  • #98037
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Claire wrote:

    It is frightening how many people are ignorant of the political parties and their policies…….

    alanthornton replied: “so now the british public are ignorant are they..?”
    Err, that’s a misquote alan. Claire said it’s frightening “how many”, not the whole British public. Misquoting is sloppy and tiring. 🙄

    Claire – I recently saw a roving reporter in the street, before last Thursday’s debate, and many were saying “Nick who?”. They couldn’t even name the Lib Dem leader – now apparently he’s the best thing since sliced bread.

    A friend told me they got chatting with some people in the pub who were raving about Clegg’s debate performance and that they’re thinking that he’s the best alternative to vote for. When my friend asked them what the Lib Dem’s policies were on immigration and the EU they didn’t have a clue!! When she explained they want to forge ahead with EU membership and give up the pound for the Euro they were horrified. By the time she filled them in on their immigration policies they had changed their mind totally.

    So – I would say Claire, yes you’re absolutely right. It is frightening how many people are ignorant of the policies of parties and are too swayed by appearances and performances without looking any deeper – and I would add they’re scaringly-gullible too.

  • #98039
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    with ridiculous responses like those no wonder we are in the mire. say what you don’t mean, mean what you don’t say. its worse that I thought. still its good to know most of us are IGNORANT, your words not mine. so what does it mean (frighteningly) so sad!

  • #98040
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Yet again, Alanthornton interjects and posts crap and ruins a sensible debate/thread. 🙄

  • #98041
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Charlie

    Misquoting is not sloppy and tiring, its debating. As your later point went on to prove by misquoting Liberal party policy.

    Dit

  • #98042
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    It’s not only politics that they’re ignorant about it is most things in general. Ask most people what the tax % is on fuel or cigarettes, or how much the vat is , or the fact that you pay vat on tax, & a host of other things. It never ceases to amaze me that they have no idea.
    One thing that would send the tory or liberal vote sky high & increase turn out for voting is the one who says he will tax all benefits.

  • #98043
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Dit, what is your take on this from the LIB Dem Manifesto?

    And we will put Britain at the heart of Europe, to ensure we use our influence to achieve prosperity, security and opportunity for Britain

    They have been quite open in that if they get into power, they favour the Euro against sterling.

  • #98044
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Ditter – for a member to misquote another member’s post is not ‘debating’, it is misquoting. And it is sloppy and tiring.

    As for misquoting Liberal party policy, I haven’t because I’ve read it.

  • #98045
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @gus-lopez wrote:

    It’s not only politics that they’re ignorant about it is most things in general.

    Over to you alanthornton !!!! 😆

    Gus-lopez, good to see you’re not one of those with their head in the sand. As for the suggestion of taxing benefits, good one! Definitely child benefit for single Mum’s should be limited to only one. One ‘mistake’ is acceptable. That would stop a lot of the little darlings being churned out as a form of income.

    I would even like to see all single lads who have fathered children but who refuse to financially-support them have their ‘debt to society’ (in otherwords the taxpayers’ money) recorded and paid back in the future when they grow up, take responsibility for their actions – preferably taken at source from their salary when/if ever they get a job. If on benefits, likewise an appropriate amount deducted.

  • #98046
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @alanrthornton wrote:

    with ridiculous responses like those no wonder we are in the mire…

    Why was my response ridiculous? The programme I watched and my friend’s encounter in the pub is fact. But hey, why let facts get in the way of the opportunity of coming on here and churning out your repetitive ‘so sad’ mantra.

    “say what you don’t mean, mean what you don’t say” ???
    I assume you’re quoting from Gordon Brown’s instructions to all his MP’s out there canvassing.

  • #98047
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    ASSUME
    that tells us all where your coming from and where your going

  • #98048
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    One can only ‘assume’ when you don’t clarify what the heck you’re talking about.

    alan – have you ever tried contributing to a topic or is popping up out of the blue now and then with antagonistic drivvel or member-bashing the extent of your mental ability?
    As Claire says “Yet again, Alanthornton interjects and posts crap and ruins a sensible debate/thread”.

  • #98049
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    see and hear what you want, your quite clearly not worth bothering about, so enjoy your sad life.
    oh and i know you will respond, bacause you have to have the last word. keep looking in the mirror

  • #98051
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @charlie wrote:

    ……..is popping up out of the blue now and then with antagonistic drivvel or member-bashing the extent of your mental ability?

    That’s a “Yes” then ?

  • #98052
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    Although I do not intend to vote in the UK elections, I have traditionally been a tory.

    But considering some of Camerons actions regarding europe, etc… I think I would be more likely to vote Libdem. Maybe because they have not been in power in a long time, so they have the option of being ‘more honest’.

  • #98034
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Can we afford their inexperience though?
    Voting Lib Dems into power would be a change too far IMO. Personally, in the present economic climate, I do not believe they have the nouse/experience to make the big changes they say they will AND carry them out. (Then again, GB said we would have a referendum on the EU!) Vince Cable can’t do it all on his own. He’s the only one I think has any credibility/experience.

  • #98055
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @Claire wrote:

    Can we afford their inexperience though?
    Voting Lib Dems into power would be a change too far IMO. Personally, in the present economic climate, I do not believe they have the nouse/experience to make the big changes they say they will AND carry them out. (Then again, GB said we would have a referendum on the EU!) Vince Cable can’t do it all on his own. He’s the only one I think has any credibility/experience.

    But does that not mean labour should be in power again? they are the only ones with current experience.
    Hell Cameron has never even had a ‘real’ job.
    Nick Clegg though has been involved in international aid/WTO/EC/etc… prior to entering politics.

  • #98058
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    There are many facets to the debate. It does make it more interesting.

  • #98059
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @Claire wrote:

    There are many facets to the debate. It does make it more interesting.

    gladitorial contest is the only way to go.

  • #98060
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    After all the fiasco with the volcanic ash I say vote UKIP 😉

  • #98061
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Claire wrote:

    Can we afford their inexperience though?
    Voting Lib Dems into power would be a change too far IMO. Personally, in the present economic climate, I do not believe they have the nouse/experience to make the big changes they say they will AND carry them out. (Then again, GB said we would have a referendum on the EU!) Vince Cable can’t do it all on his own. He’s the only one I think has any credibility/experience.

    As I am a former conservative Claire can you tell me what experience you are crediting to David Cameron and his Chancellor George Osborne to name but a few.
    The Lib Dems have a wealth of experience in running large business organisations and are well used to filling in expenses accurately and honestly, our local MP pledged that he was squeaky clean in regard to the expenses fiasco. Then just recently OOPS ive made a simple clerical error over claims on my mortgage.
    Do you really want him running the country.
    There are many tory MPs who have never been in power which is why kenneth clarke and his cronies have been dragged back from oblivion to try and give them some credibility.
    I say give the the lib dems a chance, we brits love to be on the side of the underdog.
    Should be an interesting few weeks

  • #98062
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    I would cut off my fingers before I voted lib-dem..useless rag bag bunch 👿

  • #98063
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    [quote=”vilprano

    As I am a former conservative Claire can you tell me what experience you are crediting to David Cameron and his Chancellor George Osborne to name but a few.

    I did not credit them with experience, but I would rather their inexperience than Nick Cleggs.

    The Lib Dems have a wealth of experience in running large business organisations and are well used to filling in expenses accurately and honestly,

    Should that be a full stop?

    our local MP pledged that he was squeaky clean in regard to the expenses fiasco. Then just recently OOPS ive made a simple clerical error over claims on my mortgage.
    Do you really want him running the country.

    I’ve no idea who your MP is. but assuming he is not Labour…sure! How many MPs didn’t “make a mistake”?

    There are many tory MPs who have never been in power which is why kenneth clarke and his cronies have been dragged back from oblivion to try and give them some credibility.

    Nothing wrong in using experienced resources if they are up to it. Do the Lib Dems have any experienced cronies, from oblivion or elsewhere? Oh yes! Paddy Ashdown has just come on the telly !! 😆

    I say give the the lib dems a chance

    Everyone has a free vote.

    we brits love to be on the side of the underdog.

    I am! 😆

    Should be an interesting few weeks

    No emoticon for a yawn! 😉 At least the Icelandic volcanic ash cloud has been a distraction, albeit ..extreme.

  • #98064
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Nick Clegg has been questioned about his £90,000 expenses today. They were all dipping in the pot whatever party!

    After some of the proposals today from Charlie I would say Charlie for PM 💡

  • #98065
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    After some of the proposals today from Charlie I would say Charlie for PM 💡

    Great idea Katy!

    She could then perhaps legislate against AT posting on this or any other forum!

  • #98067
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @vilprano wrote:

    The Lib Dems have a wealth of experience in running large business organisations and are well used to filling in expenses accurately and honestly..

    I’m afraid all parties have been as bad as each other when it comes to expenses.

    One thing I cannot stand is hypocrisy and Nick Clegg, having taken the moral high ground on this topic repeatedly, was shown to be no better than the rest – nor his MP’s. Why should we pay for Lembit Opik’s 42″ plasma telly or his two fancy dress wigs from Hamleys :shock:, Martin Horwood’s washing up liquid, Chris Huhne’s lavatory rolls, or Julia Goldsworthy’s expensive leather rocking chair and antiques, Nick?

    If Clegg felt so strongly that the ‘rules’ were wrong (eg gardening expenses) and wants reform, why did he regardless repeatedly claim the max. expenses each year? Why? Because he could. So he did. And that includes 1700 pounds to get his garden sorted when he moved in and thereon a regular salary for his gardener of 260 pounds each month. I laughed when I read he even claimed for cushions, cake tins and 1.50 for paper napkins. But there again, maybe paper napkins are essential to enable him to carry out his ministerial duties, far be it for me to judge.

    Any different from the rest? I don’t think so – I find his utterances on his drive to reform expenses nauseating. One announcement he did get right though: ““People will just simply despair that all politicians look either ridiculous at best or corrupt at worst.”

    So Vilprano, I just don’t buy your above statement I’m afraid. He certainly can’t sing Tina’s song “I’m simply the best, better than all the rest….”. He’s simply NOT.

  • #98068
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    After some of the proposals today from Charlie I would say Charlie for PM 💡

    Oh, I wish! I’d borrow Magaret Thatcher’s handbag and thump the lot of them.

  • #98069
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    So far the expenses debacle has not been an election issue. Probably because no Party and very few MPs are completely free from criticism. Only the most one-eyed party supporter would use it to further the cause. Having said that Nick Clegg and the Lib Dems are now rightly in the spotlight and there policies will come under increasing scrutiny, that is what general elections are all about.

    Dit

  • #98070
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    I wonder how Savers and Pensioners will vote since the Labour Party has really ignored them in favour of borrowers it seems.

    By that I mean the BOE reduced rates to such an extent because of Labour’s failure with the UK economy (but always blame the Global economy, not themselves) so bailed out mortgage holders etc. It’s a fact that 47% of all morgages in the boom in the UK were so called ‘Liar Loans’, ie non-status, self-cert. It’s these people that are benefitting through low interest rates having fraudulently obtained their loans, whereas Savers who outnumber Borrowers by 7-1 are stuffed, left in the lurch by this wretched Gov’t and BOE, FSA etc trying to get a decent interest rate!

  • #98072
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I wonder how Savers and Pensioners will vote since the Labour Party has really ignored them in favour of borrowers it seems.

    Hopefully , NOT the Labour Party.

  • #98079
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Anyone prepared to make a prediction? For my part I predict the Tories will win with an overall majority of around 20. Bearing in mind they should be heading for a landslide that would be a relative disappointment.

    Mark

  • #98080
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hung Parliament 🙁 I soo hope not though. I would lay money that GB will not be Prime Minister for the next term. 😀 I think his own people see that he is detrimental to their party.

    Tomorrows headlines will be interesting after tonights “debate”.

  • #98086
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    All parties are keeping their dirty tricks department quiet until the last few days, hoping not to have to use them. Cameron has the most to lose if the gloves come off, he should have got rid of Osbourne a long time ago, the man is a liability and a real smoking gun.

    The man with the least to lose is Brown, he’s the least hysteric of the three, and Clegg could lose it at any time with his suspect temper.

    I predict a Labour victory or a Labour/Lib Dem coalition.

  • #98087
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @DITTER wrote:

    So far the expenses debacle has not been an election issue.

    At least David Cameron acknowledged it is very much an issue with the electorate by saying during last week’s debate “Your politicians – frankly all of us – let you down.” The parties know the people are angry so agree they are keeping their heads down over it.

    Probably never before in Parliamentary history has there been one solitary reason for such a re-shuffle of bodies out of Westminister. Those not sacked are leaving in droves (I would like to say with heads hanging in shame but I’m not holding my breath) knowing their greed/immoral fiddling would be the cause of never being re-elected.

    A new poll today for ITV and The Independent:
    Asked which leader would make a good Prime Minister, 45 per cent said Mr Clegg, 44 per cent Mr Cameron and just 30 per cent Gordon Brown.
    However, almost half – 44 per cent – said they did not have a good idea what the Lib Dem leader stood for.

    Claire, regardless of one member’s criticism of being “ridiculous” the other day, this only supports that you were bang on about how many people are ignorant of actual policies – but it seems they believe Clegg would make a good PM anyway. 🙄
    And as I said, “gullible”.

  • #98088
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I think we will have a hung parliament followed by a minority government (Labour or Tory) trying to muddle through on a day by day basis. Followed by another election in 6 months time. Dave and Gordon might not have survived there own partys by this time, the Tories inparticular will be savage if they have not won outright. If it is hung the Queen is going to be in for a busy time.

    Dit

  • #98089
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Do you think it would be a good idea for the one with the lowest number of seats to drop out and have another vote 😕 Just wondered.

  • #98090
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    If a hung parliament then how do you think shares, especially bank shares will perform?

  • #98091
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @angie wrote:

    If a hung parliament then how do you think shares, especially bank shares will perform?

    I read that if there was a hung parliament , it would cause economic mayhem. ( I thought we already had that ) There could be a run on the pound, and the IMF may have to step in as there could be a collapse in confidence that the UK has the ability to repay it’s huge debts.
    Presumably, shares would suffer accordingly.

  • #98094
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The biggest country in Europe, and the richest, has had a coalition government for many years and it works. Strangely, with a hung parliament almost a certainty, the pound and the market have gone up recently.

    The critics, mostly on the Conservative side, are against a coalition of any sort, it would cramp the Tory style, hence their violent opposition to any such move. Would the voting public worry about a coalition, a government that puts the people first?

    I don’t know the answer, but I can sense some major changes ahead.

  • #98095
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    +changes.

    and about time

  • #98098
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Yes, I thought there would be a lot more financial uncertainty with a Hung Parliament but like Rocker mentioned it’s odd how the market including bank shares and sterling have risen lately, almost discounting the thought, maybe another bubble burst to come!

  • #98100
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Both shares and sterling have a long way to go (up) before they will start making a difference. My husband bought bank shares..they’ve plummeted ever since! 🙁

  • #70390
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    It seems the knives are out for Gordon Brown already.

    Apparently Peter Mandelson and Alan Johnson are making mutterings about supporting the idea of David Milliband to replace Brown and the UNITE union lot are supporting Ed Balls.

    I ask those who have supported Labour in this poll: do either of these two choices as the possible future leader of the Labour Party put you off at all?

  • #70393
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    😆 😆 😆

    Great picture to put a caption to. Any offers?

  • #70395
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “Come on now folks – only one left. Who’ll make me an offer I can’t refuse – and no, I’m not talking about being your next Prime Minister”!!

  • #70396
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    I am not a Labour supporter but I like Mendelson and Milleband. When I see Milleband on TV he seems very articulate as Foreign Secretary. I would vote UKIP except they are a load of nutters. I am voting Tory as the MP lives in our village (far better than all the candidates who are imposed on an area). Anyway he invited us to dinner when we moved….I can be bought 😆 😉

  • #70397
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Funny that. Of all of them, Milleband is the one I dislike the most. It’s an aversion to the way he looks and sounds, not his politics. Mandelson, on the other hand, is such a powerful operator and survivor I can’t but help feel some grudging respect for him.

  • #70399
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Caption Answer

    ‘I come from a family of Bonobos and I will stuff (shag) anything that moves so vote me in for PM’

    Bonobos are not monogamous.

  • #70402
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @mark wrote:

    Mandelson, on the other hand, is such a powerful operator and survivor I can’t but help feel some grudging respect for him.

    I think the fact this man has been able to worm his way back to such power after falling from disgrace twice is more a reflection on the mentality of the Labour party than anything else.

    As for Milliband, I’ve seen him interviewed and I couldn’t stop cringing. And during the ‘Blair for EU President’ debate he comes out with his classic one-liner “the EU needs a big hitter who could stop the traffic in world capitals”. Pass the sick bucket.

  • #70404
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    I really don’t trust either of those Millibands they both make me cringe, to the same degree as Fraud Mandelson with his supercillious smirks. The Millibands will really help themselves to fame and fortune if they can, not unlike Blair.

    Mind you many of the opposition parties like Osbourne, Pickle for example are pretty detestable too.

    You’d think Political Parties would make User Friendly Politicians a priority to recruit!

  • #70136
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    All the mp’s are out to earn as much money as possible, runs across all parties. The only reason some haven’t earnt as much as Blair is because they weren’t so lucky. The only one who seems genuine is Dennis Skinner 😯 If I knew what I know now I would have gone into politics when I finished Uni 😆

    I am not impressed by Cameron. The more I see and hear him on TV I dislike him, when Brown is on I want to smash the screen and Clegg should work in PR.

  • #70137
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The only one who seems genuine is Dennis Skinner

    Ermmmm…..

    “Dennis The ‘Incorruptible’
    For years and years and years our MP Dennis Skinner has claimed £400 a month for food. He has been able to do this because it was the maximum allowance MPs’ could claim without having to submit receipts. His election leaflet is a load of rubbish. The taxpayer has paid for his food as well as their own…

    No mention of the food subsidy on his leaflet….”

    from http://www.barlboroughlife.com

  • #70138
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    OK I take it back 😀

  • #70139
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Thanks 😀

  • #70143
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Paul –

    you forgot the £100 per month for ‘sundries’, again the max. that doesn’t require receipts. That brings it to a nice round £500pm before having to touch his salary.
    Yes, Skinner’s been claiming that too.

    Every MP needs his/her sundries, how else can they afford to buy their loo rolls or get their dry cleaning done?

    They’ve ALL been doing it, they’re ALL as bad as each other.

    Honourable Members of the House……? 😆

    That term definitely has to go, I wince everytime they use it in PMQ’s.

  • #98141
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi

    You know Charlie I don’t really mind, I suppose we all have “perks” sometimes. I just feel it’s dishonest to say (which he does) “I took less than the rest so I’m clean”!

    I for one will be staying up on election night it may be interesting (for once.)

    Regards

    Paul

  • #98143
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I learnt long ago from a boss I worked for that it’s not how much you earn but how much you don’t have to spend !

  • #98159
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    how do you guys think the whole ‘leaving the mike on’ will affect Gordon?

  • #98160
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    I wish I’d also gone into Politics katy, it seems that brains are not a pre-requisite to become either a PM (Brown), a President (Bush), but in Italy’s case, only a fat bank account and a big dick, oops I mean Berlosconi, Cock a deaf’un in Spain (Zapatero).

    Then of course there’s the MP’s most of whom seem bent with their expenses.

    ‘Become a Politician and feather your nest whilst ripping-off your voters’!

  • #98161
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    I think Gordon Buffoon has lost Labour the election Fuengi, whatever happens I doubt he will remain leader of the Labour Party. I can’t stand him always blaming Britain’s financial problems on Global problems when most of our’s were controllable by Labour and the Banks/FSA if they had wanted to do, but no, let the boom continue and turn a blind eye to everything.

    Maybe Brown will retire to Spain, you might sell him an apartment on the coast Fuengi, a distressed sale for a distressed man.!

  • #98166
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    It will do him harm because it makes him look ridiculous. It also shows that Labour calls anyone concerned about immigration a bigot, killing debate on a critical issue, and insulting many of their own supporters. But I still think it’s a trivial affair. People should be voting on Labour’s 13 years in government, not what Brown said about this woman.

    Angie, you should be asking ‘why do some politician lie continuously?’

  • #98167
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I think it will reflect more on Mr Brown personally, than on the Labour vote. People are starting to think about the post election period, it will almost certainly be a Brown free landscape.

    Dit

  • #98168
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    The media seem to be concentrating on personalities not policies.

    I wouldn’t vote Labour because of it’s record

    I wouldn’t vote Liberal because of it’s policy on Europe (and all it’s policies really)

    I am voting Conservative (reluctantly) as they aren’t behaving like Tories right now. Hopefully they will be proper conservatives if they win and stop trying to be so PC.

    In all the campaigning hardly anyone seems to mention the mess that is Afghanistan and what they would do!

  • #98171
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    And none of them are being remotely honest about the economic pain to come.

    The only think keeping the UK economy afloat right now is the government printing money. That can only go on for so long. Then will come the real pain.

    Does the British electorate not realise this? Do they believe the soothing words about ‘not endangering the recovery’?

  • #98176
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @mark wrote:

    Does the British electorate not realise this? Do they believe the soothing words about ‘not endangering the recovery’?

    Why not? Most countries don’t actually try to instill critical thinking in its population. So instead people want to hear conforting words instead, ie how voting for party X will benefit me/mine.

    Look at the Tories, few months back they were being quite honest in stating how hard things are going to have to be, belt tightening, cuts, etc… Then they start to dip in the polls. They put across a more ‘positive’ message and they start going up in the polls.

  • #98177
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Does the British electorate not realise this?

    Many don’t care Mark 😳

    In politics if you try to explain the complicated the electorate turn off. In the past I have helped fight planning a debarcle which would mean an extra 350 (not a typo) extra lorries a day coming down a small A road through our village. The apathy is astounding, many can’t even be arsed to sign a petition.

    Look at the news, house prices up 10%, retail doing well, Costa coffee record profits, banks starting to make money again, where’s the bad news? Of course we will all pay but who wants bad news when things look OK? The first one that says “we are going to increase VAT and/or income tax” will lose the election.

    regards

    Paul

  • #98183
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @mark wrote:

    Does the British electorate not realise this? Do they believe the soothing words about ‘not endangering the recovery’?

    As p800aul said you have a large majority who don’t care, then you have the idiots who shouldn’t be allowed out on there own, leaving a small % of the population who do care but are not sufficient to overcome the aforementioned. Until there’s compulsory voting the vast majority will always be controlled by the cunning minority, just like the unions . You have a population of 60+ million people being governed by a party voted in by less than 15 million voters.

  • #98187
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Paul, I sadly think you are correct. Most only care about their benefits. So many on one kind or another that no party can say a word. Same as immigration, the immigrant vote is a large vote. Especially when you have people who claim to speak for their community going round filling out postal voting forms for them!

    It’s beginning to look like a Britains Got Talent contest 👿

  • #98188
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Fuengi – in answer to your question, for me there was something about yesterday’s event that was more far more revealing about GB than the fact he is arrogant and a hypocrite (his last words to Mrs. Duffy before getting in his car was “you are a good woman”).

    It was the fact that this lady had simply and politely asked him questions about immigration. She wasn’t shouting, or raving or hurling abuse – yet he was furious that he actually had to be ‘confronted’ with someone who was simply questioning his policies, and his reaction was “that was a disaster”. Why was it a disaster????

    Too many years ensconsed in no.11 and no.10 methinks. I genuinely think the man is so deluded that he believes everyone on Planet UK agrees with everything he says and does. If proof was ever needed that he is far removed from reality, that was it for me.

    The contrast with DC when out and about yesterday, answering questions calmly (however difficult) was blinding.

  • #98191
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Suppose you have heard the tranquiliser rumour. Been watching his face this morning. Brown that is. 😯

  • #98192
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Yes Charlie, you’re quite correct . Someone should remind them that they are public servants with the emphasis on servant.

  • #98197
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I tried watching the debate last night, but gave up on the drivel. It was all spin and political point scoring. Sleeping is much more important that listening to that.

  • #98199
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    If the Conservatives win, they’ll have to take the rap for cleaning up Labour’s mess. Maybe Gordon is a strategic genius playing the long game, sacrificing himself in the short run for Labour’s total dominance once the deeply unpopular Conservatives are booted out in a few years time.

    Maybe none of them really want to win this election. As Mervyn King has pointed out, it’s a poisoned chalice.

  • #98201
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    and thats the way its always been.
    just a bloody circus.

  • #98202
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    Here’s a thought. If (big if) Nick Clegg was part of the next gov. would that benefit Brits in Spain?

    I was thinking this as his wife is a trade lawyer for a large internation firm and being from the north of Spain

  • #98203
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    You’re right Mark, I/We all should ask ‘why do Politicians lie continuously?’

    Did you see Questiontime last night, a girl in the audience did ask just that, ‘why can’t any of you Politicians on the panel give us straight answers to our questions instead of evading them all the time, do you take us all for mugs?’ A few red faces ensued when she re-iterated her point.

    Personally I think Roy Hodgson should take over as PM considering how he’s managed a small budget to turn around Fulham’s fortunesagainst all the odds, think what he could do for the UK! Plus he’s a quiet and reasoned man that gets the best out of people, no lies, tells it straight. 🙂

  • #98207
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Now Brown’s spin doctors are trying to make excuses for him by saying he only reacted to Mrs. Duffy like that because he had misheard her when she asked about where all the Eastern European immigrants were ‘flocking’ from. They’re saying he thought she had asked “where are they f***ing from”.

    I’m sure that will make Mrs. Duffy feel a whole lot better. 🙄

    Three days to come up with such a pathetic and blatant lie – how stupid do they think people are? Labour, don’t stop digging that hole, there’s a lot of you to fit in there.

  • #98208
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @mark wrote:

    I tried watching the debate last night, but gave up on the drivel.

    I actually dozed off for ten minutes near the end. 😆

  • #98216
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Me too, but what I heard was unenlightening. I especially thought that the banking problem was poorly dealt with, IMHO we need to go back to pre-big bang type controls on the banking sector.

    The UK political system just doesn’t work, but I cannot see any real change happening in my lifetime.

  • #98231
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Just in case there is anybody left out there who thinks Brown is worthy of another term!!!!!

    Just a few very interesting facts about Gordon Brown
    We used to have 6 independent regulators to regulate the different divisions of the financial services industry, including our Banks. (Margaret Thatcher knew what the Banks were like and in the 1988 Finance Act she bound the Banks up in regulation to prevent them from being reckless!!!)

    Then Gordon Brown became Chancellor on 6th May 1997 Gordon’s banker friends said “We want all these regulators to go” “We don’t want regulators watching everything we do”
    AND GORDON SAID OK
    So, Gordon announced on the 20th May 1997 (2 weeks after becoming Chancellor) that the six regulatory bodies would be broken up and a new Financial Services Authority would replace them. The FSA had virtually no powers over the Banks and he also took away the powers from the Bank of England to enforce regulation on them.
    The result is the devastation we are all suffering today.

    We used to have a Monopolies and Mergers Commission.Then Gordon’s banker friends said we don’t want the Monopolies and Mergers commission telling us who we can and ct “Take Over”
    AND GORDON SAID OK

    So, in 1998 Gordon scrapped the Monopolies and Mergers Commission and created a replacement called the Competition Commission, with very much reduced powers and different ideas of what used to be regarded as a “Monopoly”.
    The result is the Massive Corporations we have today who are ruling and shaping our lives for their own benefit and profits. Not to mention the massive Monopolies held by some of these corporations through the forced
    purchases of all their competitors

    We used to have pension regulations, which for many decades had included something called “The Pensions Cap.”The pensions cap set a limit on how much pension any scheme member (including directors) could get from an occupational pension scheme, irrespective of how high their earnings were.It was there to protect the ordinary members pensions. To prevent Directors paying themselves obscene salaries and then draining the pension funds with huge pensions.

    Then Gordon Brown’s banker friends said that they wanted the pensions cap removing so that they could get pensions related to their obscene earnings. (The whole Pensions industry gave him warnings of the effects it would have. Even the Inland revenue put forward objections)

    BUT GORDON SAID OK because Gordon never likes to disappoint his banker friends
    So Gordon took away the Pensions Cap in 2005 and then some of his friends were able to leave their boardroom positions with huge pensions!!! For example Fred Goodwin was apparently entitled to a pension of over £700,000. If Gordon had left the pensions cap in place that would have been a mere £125,000. Well done Fred and your mates!!!
    (The Superannuations Division of the Inland Revenue have kept a record of what it should be, in readiness for when we get a new chancellor who sees fit to re-instate it. George Osborn has pledged to do that). The record of Pensions Cap limits are available to view on the Revenue’s website. The result of this is that along with Gordon’s “Tax Raid” on pension funds starting July 1997, over four thousand UK company pension scheme’s have closed their doors to new members and many of them have had to close down altogether, leaving millions of workers without any pension provision.

    This man Gordon Brown “professes to be a socialist and “for” the working man . The working man’s main form of long term financial security had for many years been his company pension scheme, something to look forward to at the end of a life of hard work, his reward, light at the end of a long dark tunnel. Gordon has put an end to that by destroying the most valuable asset of the average British worker.

    IT IS ONE OF THE GREATEST TRAVESTIES OF JUSTICE THAT THIS MAN WHO PRETENDS TO BE “FOR THE WORKING MAN” HAS IN FACT BEEN HIS WORST ENEMY FOR THE LAST
    THIRTEEN YEARS AND WILL LEAVE A LEGACY THAT WE WILL STILL BE CLEARING UP FOR MANY YEARS TO COME.
    THE REAL INJUSTICE IS THAT ITS ALL BEEN DONE IN AREAS WHICH ARE TOTALLY OUT OF SIGHT TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC AND BEYOND THE UNDERSTANDING MANY
    GORDON RELIES ENTIRELY ON PEOPLES IGNORANCE TO GET AWAY WITH HIS INDISCRETIONS. GORDON’S MOTTO OF:
    “DENY EVERYTHING AND ADMIT NOTHING” SEEMS TO BE WORKING QUITE WELL FOR HIM SO FAR!!!

    LASTLY, WHAT GORDON LIKES TO CALL THE “GLOBAL BANKING CRISIS”
    Have you noticed that we were the first to be in it and are the last to be out (and whether we are out is very speculative!!!) As he has openly admitted, The Royal Bank of Scotland was the worlds biggest bank.
    So when RBS and HBOS were about to go BUST in October 2008 and they had to be bailed out overnight so they did not take the entire country down with them, (that by the way was almost certainly a decision made by the hierarchy in Whitehall for which Gordon loves to take the credit). As the world’s leading banks now all lend money to each other on a colossal scale, isn’t it obvious that the world’s biggest bank going down would have a devastating effect on all the others it dealt with. This “worlds biggest bank” had also sold bad mortgage books to other banks. Most of the Banks in Europe which ran into crisis were dragged into it because of the crooked dealings of our big Banks. A fact that both Germany and France were quick to remind Gordon Brown of at the G20 emergency meeting shortly after the crisis.
    There are many other of Gordon’s indiscretions, far too many to list here, but perhaps the few biggie’s shown above will give some insight into how Gordon operates.
    By the way have you noticed how he has suddenly become interested in Social issues now an election is looming and seems to be able to promise the world when, as Alistair Darling put it a few days ago, there is not a
    penny left in the bank!!!
    Think very carefully before casting your vote for this man who is probably the most extreme capitalist of the past century while pretending to be “for the working man”.

    GORDON WORSHIPS THE SUPER RICH AND POWERFUL AND CANNOT SAY NO TO THEM

    (Received by email this morning)

  • #98232
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Claire wrote:

    GORDON WORSHIPS THE SUPER RICH AND POWERFUL AND CANNOT SAY NO TO THEM

    Unlike the Tories 😆

  • #98233
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    At least they are not in denial! 😆 😆 (Is that your best contribution?)

  • #98241
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Gordon Brown is such a liar and also a negligent unelected PM.

    Don’t forget that this buffoon who took all the credit as Chancellor during the boom, but blames the bust simply on Global Economics (never himself), sold off Britain’s Gold reserves at $200 per oz but recently it reached $1200 per oz.

    He promised to go after Fraud Goodwin and his pension pot fiasco sanctioned in effect by Gov’t because they failed to write those terms in when RBS was bailed out, so he was stuffed by Goodwin’s contract.

    He re-appointed Fraud Mandelson even though he was sacked twice by the Labour Party for fraud/financial irregularities regarding mortgages.

    He turned a blind eye to the obscene bonuses being paid by Goldman ‘Sucks’ years ago and whose London employees earned an average £1 million last year even though he promised to curb Banks’ huge pay structure. They were instrumental in the boom and bust scenario.

    He failed to sack the awful Jacqui Smith and Hazel Blears for their blatant 2nd home frauds as well as many other Labour MP’s. At least Cameron sacked similar in the Tories.

    He takes billions in road taxes but Britain’s roads are pot-holed and congested, no new roads built.

    He/Blair allowed the UK’s utility companies to be sold off to the French to rip Britons off whilst we are not allowed to buy French utility companies.

    Uk Pensions are amongst the lowest in the civilised western world.

    The list is endless, Brown is likened in the Telegraph to a ‘camel in a bad mood’ and to beware of! 😡

  • #98246
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    C’mon Angie……get off the fence! 😉

    😆

  • #98248
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Browned off with Gordon ‘Buffoon’ Brown
    and Alastair ‘is no-ones’ Darling
    and The Devil Peter ‘Fraud’ Mandelson
    and the lot of them!

    Saw Brown on tv in a Brixton Church quoting Scriptures as if he was pure, hypocrite!

    Whoever gets in to No10 assuming it’s not Labour (not the Party for the workers anymore) is going to be up to their eyeballs in Labour’s mess for many years.

    Can’t seem to get off the fence again Claire 😉

  • #98267
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Those who are going to stay up during election night to see the results coming in will also have something else to watch with interest Thursday night/Friday morning.

    In an unprecedented move, ‘Liffe’ traders of bonds and the futures market will be opening it’s doors (and it’s phone lines) at 1am. Traders do not want to be caught out by an unexpected result which might leave their gilt-holdings at a loss when they came in for work on Friday morning.

    If any of the parties look like they have taken an outright majority then traders will be expected to buy up government bonds as quickly as they can. If it’s a hung parliament, the opposite will happen and there will be a selling/dumping of government bonds.

    Heavy selling would cause huge problems for the new government, which would have to offer much higher interest rates on new gilts in order to finance the State’s borrowings.

    Market players will want to make money either by selling gilts if the results are seen as bad for Britain, or buying them, if the outcome is thought to be good. Along with gilt futures, trading will be allowed also in sterling interest-rate derivatives and FTSE 100 futures contracts.

    Last month giant Deutsche Bank warned that an outright Tory victory would be the best outcome for the British economy, because of the Conservative commitment to take action faster on reducing the budget deficit.

    A hung Parliament will have a devasting effect financially for the UK –

    the only thing I want to see hung is the Labour party (hung out to dry) for what they’ve done to Britain.

  • #98268
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Have to agree with all being said about GB and labour.
    Just noticed a poll on facebook which attracts mainly younger voters.
    Half a million votes in 3 days gives lib dems 42% cons 26%
    very surprising but these new and floating voters can make a huge difference.
    Have been expecting a hung parliament for many months along with many making up their mind when they have the ballot paper in front of them. Nothing has come from any party to change my mind. Hopefully someone will come up with a KILLER proposall in the next few days or we are heading for years of uncertainty.

  • #98274
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    I started out thinking my vote would be Labour, I wanted Alistair Darling to stay as the Chancellor, I thought say another two years of Labour to try and balance the books would be the ideal situation, rather than have the turmoil of Conservative change policies turning the country upside down, I thought the status quo would have been best.

    However, the Labour campaign has been nothing short of catastrophic really, just unbelievably bad beyond belief and Brown just can’t stop with his only mantra of who do you trust on jobs, health, police and education, the man is like a stuck record, it is awesomely bad.

    But the press and the TV interestingly just didn’t seem to pick up on the fact that the British public would show a willingness toward a hung parliament, they are not afraid of it, if you watch studio audiences and polls they are saying, look, no one has an overall mandate, it is about time two of you came together and formed a consensus across the majority of the popular vote.

    If I were actually voting, which I am not going to be, I have never voted because I haven’t been resident for much of the past 30 years, I would vote now Conservative, and I think they will win the popular vote, and I think they will win the most seats, and I would hope, that Cameron recognises there is a demand amongst the people that he brings Clegg and Cable into the cabinet, and says that he will then have a mandate from 60%+ of the British people to effect real change, and that electoral reform must be looked at it in the future.

    There is no left and right to British politics anymore, it is a dead duck, there is a possible Berlin Wall moment coming in that regard, Cameron could do himself a massive favour and remain in power for a decade if he listens to what the British people are saying, that I for instance like certain policies of all three parties, and surely there is room in the future for that to be taken into account.

    Some good could genuinely come from all of this yet.

  • #98281
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
  • #98284
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    I was about to say jokingly that it’s probably Gordon Brown and Mandelson organising this when I read further that it really does implicate the Labour Party!

    Doesn’t Tony Blair look haggard and orange now?

  • #98285
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Yes me too. We all know which sector of the community is at fault 👿 Not only do they enter the UK for benefits they want to introduce their style of politics and “democracy”.

    Happened during the last election too and I don’t think anything happened to the culprits!

    I am the only one not impressed with Vince Cable :mrgreen:

  • #98289
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    They should stop postal votes. They never used to have them. If you can’t pitch up at the polling station..tough! Elderly & infirm people would get to vote because the parties would phone and ask if they could help with transport.

  • #98309
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Claire

    I understand that the postal vote is prone to abuse, in fact I am sure it is . The issue at some polling stations is the general intimidation that happens at some, means that without a postal vote many would just fail to vote at all. I can tell you from experience that at our village polling station there will be a crowd of Labour party supporters in place all day and every voter will have to run the gauntlet to get to the polling station.

    This is an interesting web site http://www.voterpower.org.uk/ the results for my constituency is as follows

    In Bolsover, one person does not really have one vote, they have the equivalent of 0.006 votes.

    Regards

    Paul

  • #98317
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Sorry just rushing to get my postal vote done. Think I’ll go 1 vote for that Gordon fella because he has nice eyes, 2 votes for that Nick chap because he has a nice tie and 3 votes for our BNP candidate because he has a nice hair cut. Now have I missed the post???

  • #98319
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Paul,

    We only have a Conservative and a Lib Dem candidate in our constituency! Definitely no Labour.( maybe there are “others” but I haven’t seen anything about them.) Come to think of it…I haven’t seen any candidate at all! 😕

  • #98320
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Claire

    Labour will be standing even if s/he is a paper candidate only.

    check here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/

    You wont see a candidate if it’s a safe seat they will be helping in the marginals

    Regards

    Paul

  • #98322
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Good link. You are absolutely correct Paul. 😀 There is a:
    Conservative
    UK Independence Party
    Labour
    Independent
    Liberal Democrat
    British National Party

    We are a “safe” seat…..I hope!! Your link says we are a LIB DEM target seat, 😯 but even with the Labour and LD votes together, they could/should not win based on historical figures.

  • #98323
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Claire

    If LibDem are targeting then i would guess boundary changes are now putting it within their grasp. LibDem have very little by way of funding so they will not be wasting their efforts and money if it’s not.

    Also looking at the list candidates it would seem you have a shadow cabinet member as your MP

    Should be fun down your end tomorrow 😉

  • #98326
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Also looking at the list candidates it would seem you have a shadow cabinet member as your MP

    Indeed we do! A very proactive one too, on local issues.

  • #98325
    Profile photo of rt21
    rt21
    Participant

    well I live in a labour marginal seat and after carefully considering the policies on offer from all three parties I have reluctantly decided that I shall not be turning out to vote tomorrow nor for that matter will I be listening to the results as they come in. Sadly for me this election has been a big turn off

    Richard

  • #98331
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Richard, sadly, I think many people are like you and will not vote this time.

  • #98334
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I cant understand this point of view. This attitude can only contribute to the state the country is in.
    This its nothing to do with me mate I didnt vote attitude has got us landed with all the PC rubbish and other unpalatable situations such as the banking fiasco.
    Should we all just stand back, do nothing whilst our once great country goes to the dogs.
    I think its time the electorate sent a real message to the two parties responsible and I dont think not voting will send any sort of message other than carry on screwing the masses, they dont care a toss.
    Definately time for a hung parliament where they will have to work hard in order for every decision to take effect.

    @rt21 wrote:

    well I live in a labour marginal seat and after carefully considering the policies on offer from all three parties I have reluctantly decided that I shall not be turning out to vote tomorrow nor for that matter will I be listening to the results as they come in. Sadly for me this election has been a big turn off

    Richard

  • #98336
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    On the other hand, IMHO you’re supposed to vote for the MP that you feel will best represent you. It’s easy to understand why people feel that none of the parties are worth voting for, (especially when we had the two party system, maybe that has changed now).

    I partly feel that not voting is sending a message, the mesage is simply that people aren’t supportive of the main parties, and this isn’t always indicative of a “nothing to do with me mate” attitude.

  • #98337
    Profile photo of rt21
    rt21
    Participant

    Vilprano

    As I mentioned in my previous posting none of the main parties have policies that I can support. It is only a personal view but I couldn’t vote for the Labour party because I believe they made a significant contribution to the economic mess that we are in at the moment. I quite like the conservative social policies but feel that their economic policies are too harsh and will lead to another recession. Conversely I like the economic policies of the Liberal Democrats but am put off completely by their social policies particularly on immigration.

    Although I appreciate that one’s own views are never going to dovetail exactly with those of a political party, I feel that the fault lines are so wide between my views and those of the 3 main political parties that they are irreconcilable.

    As for your statement that “This its nothing to do with me mate I didnt vote” attitude, this is not a view that I hold.

    I also do not see the connection between people not voting (in the last election) and PC rubbish and banking fiasco. You seem to be making a large assumption that those who didn’t vote at the previous election would have voted in a way that would have resulted in a different governing party.

    I could also make a case out that by voting for perhaps one of the best of a bad bunch parties, one could be putting in power a party that on the day after the election claims to have an overwhelming mandate from the country to put its policies into action. No thank you.

    You also seem to want a hung parliament, which is a view that I respect. However, that option is not on the ballot paper and is one that is dependent upon so many other factors.

    Richard

  • #98340
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    labour got us into this mess by taking away the banks watchdogs and spending like lunatics. conservatives will be hard to take as they cut things back and tax us, but who is to blame WE are for letting brown run amuck for the last 12 years. There is no point bleeting on about how hard its going to be we have to take the medcine tighten our belts and get the country back on an even keel as there is no euro bale out for us to fall back on.

  • #98341
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @dartboy wrote:

    labour got us into this mess by taking away the banks watchdogs…

    It all started a long time ago:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang_%28financial_markets%29

  • #98345
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    that was done to keep us competive,taking away the bank watch dog left the bankers to lend left right and centre.i know of 1 who has made 18 million in bonuses and only one of his deals has actually made a success story.

  • #98364
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The enormity of Dave Cameron’s achievement cannot be understated.

  • #98367
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I’m wondering if we will see GB ‘s resignation before we hear from David Cameron at 2.30pm, closely followed by Peter Mandelson’s de-throning. (or is that the dream I had in my few hours of sleep?)

  • #98369
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Claire, will Mandelson go to hell now, he’s often referred to as the devil?

  • #98372
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Angie respect . He is a Lord !!!!!!!!!!!! perhaps he can go to Brazil.

  • #98373
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @mark wrote:

    The enormity of Dave Cameron’s achievement cannot be understated.

    Agree Mark, and it’s a shame he’s just fallen short. All this uncertainty needs to be dealt with.

    Just waiting for Brown to come out to make an announcement.
    Knowing Brown’s (and Mandleson’s) ‘hang on to power at any cost’ pysche I have a doom + gloom feeling inside that they’re going to announce Labour want to form a coalition because it is Brown’s ‘duty’ to provide “stable government”.

    Oh dear, hope I’m wrong.

  • #98374
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Shakeel, surely he is a Fraud, not a Lord! 😉

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