EU intervening with Spanish Companies

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This topic contains 16 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 8 years, 10 months ago.

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  • #53598
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    Anonymous
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    The EU’s ability as to whether or not they can intervene in Spanish affairs has been discussed recently on SPI.
    Land Grab is an obvious example and even though to do with Spanish law, it is the private development companies who are enjoying the fruits of raping expats private land and enforcing/enjoying their contributions for infrastructure.

    Today, the EU is going to decide whether the Spanish broadband Internet provider Telefonica (TEF) will be required to reveal the identity of clients who may have illegally downloaded music recordings. Telefonica’s argument is that to reveal their customers’ names would go against their human rights.
    A case against Telefonica was brought before the European Court of Justice by Promusicae, a Spanish music industry association.

    Whereas I acknowledge that downloading music is an ‘incredibly serious offence’ 🙄 and the poor music companies are suffering 🙄 – but compared to having your house pulled down or having your life-savings tied up in an illegal development and your life put on hold for years while the mess is sorted out, downloading music pales into insignificance.

    My question is if the EU can intervene with a human rights issue with a private company where music is concerned, why can’t they get involved with a human rights issue when it comes to private development companies, many of whom are sitting on millions of euros of people’s monies and not delivering the agreed product (for whatever reason)?

    Will be interesting to see the EU’s decision later today – just wish they would turn their attention to higher priorities where human rights are concerned.
    Or is it the case of only big companies, as in the music industry with their big bucks, have the clout in getting the EU to act on their behalf rather than the likes of Mr. & Mrs. Prior in Vera?

    At least the EU is giving Promusicae’s complaint against Telefonica consideration whatever the outcome – which is more than we’re able to get, always receiving the reply that the EU can’t intervene in Spanish affairs. I’m sure there is some legal technicality that makes all the difference but ‘morally’ I can’t see it.

  • #78116
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    My question is if the EU can intervene with a human rights issue with a private company where music is concerned, why can’t they get involved with a human rights issue when it comes to private development companies, many of whom are sitting on millions of euros of people’s monies and not delivering the agreed product (for whatever reason)?

    Easy to answer, the record companies have loads of money to spend on this and a precedent to uphold. From memory based on past cases Telefonica will lose and have to reveal the down loaders details. While i take nothing away from the poor people having their land taken, copyright infringement worth billions is a worldwide issue and therefore will always get more attention than some poor sod in Spain.

    Regards

    Paul

  • #78121
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Telefonica will lose the case, appeal; Mr Cobbler will support Telefonica and the appeals will go on for years. As usual the EU will be all talk and very little action.

    It is a pity that the EU does n´t do something about the high prices of cd´s , dvd`s etc which is a disgrace. They looked into mobile telephone tariffs in Europe and reductions on roaming would come in, can´t see my mobile phone bill is down , all the mobile operators did was increase charges on calls inside Spain.

    The EU will puff and blow about property demolitions , LRAU and LUV have free holidays on the Costas during which they say how bad things are, get back to their luxury lifestyles in Brussels and Strasbourg , calculate how much their final pension will be and then arrange their next freebie trip and suffer an attack of amnesia where Spain is concerned.

    I can hear the delegates who look into these things saying
    ” Mr and Mrs Prior can live in a caravan , they have somewhere to live what more do they want? Do n´t trouble us any more we have important dinners and meetings to attend”

    . If there is such a thing as reincarnation I want to work in the EU and serve the people like those nice Kinnock people and Mandy Mandelson.

    What a shower. Enoch Powell and Tony Benn were poles apart politically but they were both right about the EU.

  • #78122
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    On reflection 135 you are probably right as this case is civil rather than criminal and is likely to fail.

    The point though is that IFPI will go forever to stop this, have the money to do it and will lobby forever, whereas those suffering under the land grab laws do not.

  • #78123
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I think the difference is that music copyrights are a world-wide phenomena, with international laws agreed and in place. They are corporate cases dealt with at EU and international level by commisioners, ministers and senators. The cases are recognised in international courts of law.

    Property corruption and individual property issues are dealt with by national or local government laws within the country in question by civil courts. There is no real EU or internation precedent set at present, although there are ever strenghtening guide lines that may later become EU law. It takes time and a huge sway of public demand before the EU commissioners will bother to dirty their hands with this complexed issue, nobody in the EU gravey-train will want to work that hard for their huge salaries and expense accounts.

  • #78152
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    Anonymous
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    If the EU were really acting in the best interest of…..well, the EU, then perhaps they would be less strict on the controlling of private individuals downloading the latest Kasabian album.

    Everytime you download a CD yourself, illegally, one less “pirate” CD salesman is making a sale – and as a result, his boss, who pays a small percentage of that sale to the terrorist networks who fund him, is sending less money their way…. Now I havent done much research into this, but I imagine a poor terrorist poses less of a threat than a wealthy one? 🙄

    I am really surprised that the record labels are putting up such a fight with regards to the internet and copywright infringement…I think we all must realise, we are currently in a time of change that nobody could have predicted or expected, the future of media is unknown and the record labels are clutching onto their last hopes of control over the market – Artists like Radiohead are paving the way for the future and how music will be released.

    Incase anyone was unaware – radiohead released their album via their own site a few months ago, in digital format, and allowed the user to download their album at their own chosen price. Ultimately it was a marketing exercise, but it earned Radiohead far more money than anticipated due to loyal fans paying them the money they believed was deserved for producing a new album (and the fact that the record labels got zilch)!

  • #78153
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I wonder what would happen if Estate Agents asked the vendors to pay them what they thought they were worth?

    The difference is, Radiohead can organise a tour and their fans will pay ludicrous amounts of money to subsidise the web site downloads.

    If you are going to choose a career path, music or acting would be one of the easiest ways to make a fortune (assuming you had what it takes to get to the top)

    At this rate I can see many Estate Agents going into the music industry. Now what would be the most lucrative plaza I wonder?? 😕

  • #78158
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Ben

    I use music and video in our business and you would not believe the hoops we have to jump through to use it legitmately. They are red hot on it and they do not except the new world order brought about by technology.

    Anyway not the point really

  • #78159
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    At this rate I can see many Estate Agents going into the music industry. Now what would be the most lucrative plaza I wonder??

    Perhaps we can get 3 day inspection listens.

  • #78160
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I use music and video in our business and you would not believe the hoops we have to jump through to use it legitmately. They are red hot on it and they do not except the new world order brought about by technology.

    ***********

    Several English bar owners have been caught by the Performing Artists Guild, can´t remeber the exact name but it is something like that. They say it is a charge for music being played in the bar. Some of them have had pretty hefty bills and then its quite a lot every month. I hate modern music so I prefer a bar that does n´t play music.

  • #78161
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Not from me. I can clear a room in 10 seconds!

    I might have to get the magic out again though!

  • #78162
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Well I shall only play classical, the cowboys will be evident by their choice of Country and Western 😉

  • #78164
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @135yearswaiting wrote:

    They are red hot on it and they do not except the new world order brought about by technology.

    Im surprised that so many local radio stations seem to get away with blatant use of music for which they havent purchased a license or paid publishing..

    But yes, sorry for the digression!

    Whats next, an estate agents boy band to overshadow N´Sync?

  • #78167
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Performing Artists Guild = Performing Right Society (PRS)

  • #78169
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Thanks for your replies – and think between you, you’ve just about hit the nail on the head.
    Totally agree with 135yearswaiting re. Powell and Benn by the way.

    Does anyone have any news on today’s EU ruling?
    Can’t find it anywhere and BBC World seems to have dropped the news item after talking about it all morning. 🙁

    ….learning lots re. music downloads though 😀

  • #78171
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Well, what a surprise. Telefonica won!
    It seems that it all hinged on the fact that this was a civil case.

    Telefonica argued that, under a national law based on EU rules, it only had to disclose the name of an Internet subscriber for criminal actions, not civil ones.

    The court said in a statement.
    “Community law does not require the member states, in order to ensure the effective protection of copyright, to lay down an obligation to disclose personal data in the context of civil proceedings.”

    Wouldn’t bet against an appeal though.

  • #78176
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Apparently Charlie, there is still an avenue for the record companies to use. The ruling suggested that it was possible for the record companies to bring about corporate cases against the ISP and P2P site owners. Until now the record companies have gone for individual downloaders. U2´s manager Paul McGuinness has always said the persuing of the individual was wrong.

    We may yet see a change of tactics from the recording companies.

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