Estate Agents STILL misleading purchasers

LoadingFavourite

This topic contains 82 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of angie angie 8 years, 8 months ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #53642
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    🙁

    In this week´s Sur, Viva are advertising a 2 bed Apt. on Alhaurin Golf saying it is superb spec/quality and in an excellent location.

    Ask any owner there and they say the Build is rubbish, no sound insulation whatsoever, neighbours sound as if they are in the same apartment, noisy plumbing (you can hear your neighbours in bathrooms as well).

    Excellent location? Everyone says Alhaurin Golf is known for constant break-ins and robberies, there is NO security at the entrance gate and there is no intention for any according to the cunning developer´s chap working in the sales office.

    There are over 30 resales privately from people trying to get out.

    So Viva, don´t make untrue statements about what you are selling, don´t lower yourselves to the tricks used by other well known Costa sharks!

  • #79120
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    😡

    I was in Lauro golf restaurant the other day when 4 people came in. Two were agents literally overweight husband and wife team.

    During their loud conversation they rolled out the biggest load of lies to the prospective couple about the state of the market in Spain saying the old chestnuts like ´don´t rent or you will lose the property you want´, ´don´t believe anyone who tells you the market is falling´, ´buy now if you want to make a profit´.

    I was so disgusted I ended up telling the couple who were clearly falling for their lying spiel, the greedy agents were lining up their large commission with no conscience whatsoever for the outcome.

    These were so called smaller agents doing just the same as the likes of Awful Estates and others, downright crooked and Spain allows this still to go on!

  • #79126
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Nice one Angie!
    Your signature of “Why do some agents lie continuously?” hits it on the nail.

  • #79130
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I don´t really understand this thread.

    Would the corpulant agents be expected to tell the client not to buy for a few years. They would be commiting commercial suicide if they did. How would they pay their rents etc?

    If you go into a Jaguar dealership in the UK, does the salesman tell you it will depreciate by 50% in 2 years?

    I can only imagine what lies the agents were telling about the property market here in Spain, but, it´s rather like MP´s in the UK, they are assuring the public that their expenses are all accounted for even though they pay their family cronies 000´s of pounds per year to open letters or take 4,000 pounds worth of taxi trips to get their blue-rinses done on the public purse.

    The fact is, there are liars and embezzlers which-ever way we turn, it´s always been the case. I can´t imagine Estate Agents in any country offering to be the first proffession on earth to stop lying!

  • #79134
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Sorry Peter, but in my opinion “buy now if you want to make a profit” is an unnecessary blatant porky-pie. No need to say that when advising clients re. looking for property.
    Just show them properties they are interested in and cut out the unnecessary/misleading ‘bull’.

  • #79135
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I can´t imagine Estate Agents in any country offering to be the first profession on earth to stop lying!

    Peter

    It is indeed a popular misconception that estate agents work for the buyer rather than the seller, or indeed themselves and therefore should not tell lies when selling.

    In fact I’ve just been to my local street market in Chesterfield (Derbyshire) and while i didn’t need any potato’s i bought some as the market trader was shouting “buy now and save”, “when they’ve gone they’ve gone” so i bought for fear of missing the boat.

    Regards

    Paul

  • #79136
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @charlie wrote:

    Sorry Peter, but in my opinion “buy now if you want to make a profit” is an unnecessary blatant porky-pie. No need to say that when advising clients re. looking for property.
    Just show them properties they are interested in and cut out the unnecessary/misleading ‘bull’.

    I agree charlie, the bull is a blatent lie. But to not highlight the negatives is also decieving and 2 wrongs don´t make a right.

    This is the classic salespersons catch 22.

    Our TV screens are full of miss-leading advertising for loans, alcohol, washing powder etc. All claiming things that are not true.

    If, for example, it´s ok to claim RED BULL gives you wings, or that anti-wrinkle cream works when it doesn´t, then who is going to stop this nonsense first, whoever does will be the first to go bust.

    FSA´s have to warn clients by law, about the possible risks when making an investment, Jaguar salesmen don´t!

    Cigarette packets carry warnings about health, Carlsberg don´t.

    To say the property market is not in decline is only an opinion, though I don´t condone it, it could be that agent is doing well and therefore his opinion may be correct in his eyes.

    I know of one particular agent in my town who is doing better than last year, I don´t know how or why, but, he can tell his clients he has never been busier. He has very cheap properties and can tell his clients they will make a profit if they buy now, it just depends on how long before they see it.

  • #79138
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Peter
    Your posting are reality the replies are not.
    Some need to get into the real world.

    Frank 8)

  • #79140
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @p800aul wrote:

    I can´t imagine Estate Agents in any country offering to be the first profession on earth to stop lying!

    Peter

    It is indeed a popular misconception that estate agents work for the buyer rather than the seller, or indeed themselves and therefore should not tell lies when selling.

    Regards

    Paul

    Hi Paul,

    I have always considered as an agent that I work for both.

    The ideal is to get a well priced property for the buyer whilst trying not to rob the vendor.

    The second ideal is to then mediate between the 2 parties and keep the sale ticking along until completion.

    After completion, I must remind both parties what a good job I have done in the hope they will recommend others to use me.

    Advertising brings both Vendors and buyers, so in effect it has cost me money to attract them and consequently I must look after what I have paid for.

    The above is a rather basic form of business ethics and practices and during tough times, it pays to constantly revisit them. It may not make you as rich as the liars and conmen, but at least it aleviates the need for night-time sedatives.

  • #79143
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    Peter Good wrote:
    The fact is, there are liars and embezzlers which-ever way we turn, it´s always been the case. I can´t imagine Estate Agents in any country offering to be the first proffession on earth to stop lying!

    I perfectly agree with you.

    It is not the EA fault that stupid people buy overpriced properties. Anybody can do their homework. If they cannot do their homework, they should stay home and do not even think of buying.

  • #79144
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Peter

    I don’t think that an agent can work for both vendor and buyer.

    Essentially, the vendor “hires” the agent to find a buyer. The vendor agrees to pay a commission to the agent if the buyer he introduces buys.

    At no point does the buyer agree to pay the agent.

    One of the jobs of the agent is to negotiate a sale with the vendor and buyer, but this must not be confused with working for both vendor and buyer.

    Any agent who says he works for both has a conflict of interest.

    If you “hire” an agent to search for a property for you as a buyer and you agree to pay them a fee, then the agent cannot ethically accpet a commission from the vendor at the same time.

    Therefore any agent with a commission agreement with a vendor, works for the vendor.

    AP

  • #79145
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @APotter wrote:

    Therefore any agent with a commission agreement with a vendor, works for the vendor.

    AP

    unfortunately too many spanish estate agents are working for their own interests first and foremost, especially in the current market where they’ll do anything to try and get a deal to go through and get some commission.

  • #79146
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @APotter wrote:

    Hi Peter

    I don’t think that an agent can work for both vendor and buyer.

    Essentially, the vendor “hires” the agent to find a buyer. The vendor agrees to pay a commission to the agent if the buyer he introduces buys.

    At no point does the buyer agree to pay the agent.

    One of the jobs of the agent is to negotiate a sale with the vendor and buyer, but this must not be confused with working for both vendor and buyer.

    Any agent who says he works for both has a conflict of interest.

    If you “hire” an agent to search for a property for you as a buyer and you agree to pay them a fee, then the agent cannot ethically accpet a commission from the vendor at the same time.

    Therefore any agent with a commission agreement with a vendor, works for the vendor.

    AP

    I could not possibly work under those terms! They are not ethical at all.

    When I take on a property for sale, I do not ask for a contract to be signed by the vendor, I do not like exclusive rights to a property, and feel a vendor has to maximise their chances of a sale by using as many agents has they see fit.

    I do not ask for any money from the vendor to list their property even though it cost me to do so.

    I take a copy of all relevent paperwork for the property and after this has checked out I ask the vendor if they still wish me to promote it. I tell them what I can sell it for and ask for my commission out of that. If they want more than I suggest, or request I put my commission on-top, I simply will not.

    My UK office and associate offices will organise buyers trips for them if they wish. My preference is the buyer pays for the trip and can go into any other agent at anytime whilst here in Spain.

    The buyer to me is equally important, since they have chosen me to show them property. The vendor is likely to leave the area, but the buyer becomes my neighbour. The buyer could also become a future vendor, or even brings aquaintences to buy from me.

    They will often visit my office for months afterwards, asking for help on anything and everything. I don´t mind at all, sometimes they can give me advice.

    The vendor as you see, is far less likely to be considered as a large part of the anual process of selling a property.

    Without a buyer there would be no sale, the vendor could not pay my costs. In reality, the buyer is a more valued commodity these days and vendors properties are in abundance.

  • #79151
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Just Frank wrote:

    Peter
    Your posting are reality the replies are not.
    Some need to get into the real world.

    So says an ex-agent to a current one. 🙄

    Just re-confirms to me that ‘the real world’ for many agents consists of lying through their back teeth, happy to say anything to get a sale.

    I repeat Angie, your signature hits the nail on the head.

  • #79152
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    oh dear, here we go again!

    if you are, or would be happy telling lies to customers, (or probably anyone?) then i guess your opinion on here will be…. ‘in the real world people tell lies, that’s called business, and it’s up to you to be sharp enough to see through them’ ……..So not hard to see who you think is in the wrong in angies first and second posts?

    Well that attitude, left unregulated (as is often the case in Spain) on a much grander scale, has probably done more damage to Spain than anything else apart from the economic situation. and caused misery for so many people. For heavens sake, lying is not acceptable, there has to be some morel code, some decency, some truths, some honesty, otherwise what are we left with? You only have to read about some of the agents/developers/councils/mayors/judges on this site, to answer that one!

    Do we really want a ‘big brother’ situation’ where nothing can be done without massive and intrusive regulation at every step, because there are so many scum bags constantly telling lies, cheating, betraying any trust, and prepared to sell their soul for the next buck?. The real world of the not to distant future?

    Of course everyone should do their homework, and not blame others for their lost gambles, but when it comes to blatant lies, that’s not business, that’s just fraud.

  • #79153
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Ap says “I don’t think that an agent can work for both vendor and buyer. “
    I say get real. Have you never heard of brokers?

    “I could not possibly work under those terms! They are not ethical at all. “
    OK, so now we have an accusation that some of the most reputable companies in the Worl have no ethics?

    Keep to selling apartments to punters with rose tinted glasses, it is obviously all you are used to.

  • #79154
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    charlie

    very true!

  • #79155
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @charlie wrote:

    @Just Frank wrote:
    Peter
    Your posting are reality the replies are not.
    Some need to get into the real world.

    So says an ex-agent to a current one. 🙄

    Just re-confirms to me that ‘the real world’ for many agents consists of lying through their back teeth, happy to say anything to get a sale.

    quote]

    I did not solicit the remark from Frank Charlie, and your remark implying I am a liar, even though you do not know me at all has, I am afraid, caused me to re-evaluate the advice and comments you publish here!

    I would not dare to express any opinion of anyone here as I do not know enough about the members.

    How you seem to feel you have such a right is, quite disgusting, and beyond belief.

    An apology would be appropriate.

  • #79157
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Paul,

    I have always considered as an agent that I work for both.

    The ideal is to get a well priced property for the buyer whilst trying not to rob the vendor.

    The second ideal is to then mediate between the 2 parties and keep the sale ticking along until completion.

    After completion, I must remind both parties what a good job I have done in the hope they will recommend others to use me.

    Advertising brings both Vendors and buyers, so in effect it has cost me money to attract them and consequently I must look after what I have paid for.

    The above is a rather basic form of business ethics and practices and during tough times, it pays to constantly revisit them. It may not make you as rich as the liars and conmen, but at least it aleviates the need for night-time sedatives.

    More power to you if this is the case i agree that it is good business to look after the buyer in the hope that they would recommend. It was the case with our EA and I’ve recommended him many times. I am still sure he worked for the vendor and himself in the first instance. It was only the fact that i was a “live one” that this care was taken. We have since become friends.

    That said if I had been a “Fly Buy” with the inclination to buy anything, would he have stopped me i don’t know, I must ask him :-).

    Clearly no one should be taken to the cleaners, BUT Estate Agents work for the vendor and their own pocket (as do ALL salespeople.) Some will consider your feeling as it is good for repeat business and of course depends on whether they are interested in repeat business.

    Regards

    Paul

  • #79159
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @p800aul wrote:

    More power to you if this is the case i agree that it is good business to look after the buyer in the hope that they would recommend. It was the case with our EA and I’ve recommended him many times. I am still sure he worked for the vendor and himself in the first instance. It was only the fact that i was a “live one” that this care was taken. We have since become friends.

    That said if I had been a “Fly Buy” with the inclination to buy anything, would he have stopped me i don’t know, I must ask him :-).

    Paul

    I hope he is honest with you paul. My business partner was one of my first clients many years back. The first thing I did was show him his client file, I made 3k from his sale about 2%. He was, and still is to this day, the hardest and most demanding client I ever had. It´s a standing joke between us that one day I shall invoice him for the extra work he incurred me.

    But back to the obligations of an agent, I do not see the same dialema in any other industry, whether I sold Smarties, Levi´s or anyother comodity, I would not be seen as a representative of the manufacturer or supplier, but, as a business person bringing the buyer and product together.

    An Estate Agent in the UK begins life as a sales negotiator, they are not expected to work soley for the vendor.

    New-build is even easier to understand, my job is to protect my buer from unscrupulous promoters and find ther right and legal property for them as requested. Heaven forbid that I should see myself as exclusivley anyones paid hand.

    I run my own business for a living, which I can control and make desicions to help it survive and protect its reputation, It would be folly to allow that privelige to become vulnerable and associated with an outside influence just because I offer their product for sale.

  • #79160
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi
    I have been involved in sales most of my life and the difference is that I have never sold anything that I had to lie about.
    A good salesman gives overall sales advice is confident about his product or service and leaves customers in a position to make an informed decision.
    Estate agents work for both buyers and seller if not he is not worth his salt the object being to get the right price the seller wants and the right price being the the amount the buyer is willing to pay.
    Happy seller
    Happy buyer
    Happy estate agent as he is paid
    YOU BROKER THE DEAL.

    Frank 8)

  • #79163
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Just Frank wrote:

    Hi
    I have been involved in sales most of my life and the difference is that I have never sold anything that I had to lie about.
    A good salesman gives overall sales advice is confident about his product or service and leaves customers in a position to make an informed decision.
    Estate agents work for both buyers and seller if not he is not worth his salt the object being to get the right price the seller wants and the right price being the the amount the buyer is willing to pay.
    Happy seller
    Happy buyer
    Happy estate agent as he is paid
    YOU BROKER THE DEAL.

    Frank 8)

    call yourself a broker then cos imho an agent works for their client, whereas what you are describing isn’t agency but brokerage. imho there is a difference

  • #79169
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi
    can assure you that its the same just packed up different.
    6 Years as an estate agents and 4 as a business broker its still about bringing buyers and sellers together negotiating the price,picking up the b the toys when they go out of the pram.
    Bring them back to the table and work with both buyer and seller to ensure the deal doesnt fall out of bed.
    Good estate agents dont sell,they ensure that the property they are taking on is the right price for the market and recommend the seller carries out variuos works to enhance to value then find the buyer who in many cases is on your list of potential buyers who are relying on you to find the property of their dreams.
    If your good then its not about selling,its bloody hard work to be good at what you do and that does not include being a liar unless you are unproffesional or not able to conclude a transaction without having to resort to that level.

    BRINGING BUYERS AND SELLERS OF PROPERTY OR BUSINESS TOGETHER

    Frank 8)

  • #79184
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    In this week´s Sur, Viva are advertising a 2 bed Apt. on Alhaurin Golf saying it is superb spec/quality and in an excellent location.

    Ask any owner there and they say the Build is rubbish, no sound insulation whatsoever, neighbours sound as if they are in the same apartment, noisy plumbing (you can hear your neighbours in bathrooms as well).

    Excellent location? Everyone says Alhaurin Golf is known for constant break-ins and robberies, there is NO security at the entrance gate and there is no intention for any according to the cunning developer´s chap working in the sales office.

    There are over 30 resales privately from people trying to get out.

    So Viva, don´t make untrue statements about what you are selling, don´t lower yourselves to the tricks used by other well known Costa sharks!
    _________________
    Why do some agents lie continuously?

    This topic started off with these comments above from Angie, and from what I have seen of this forum, has gone the way many of the other topics go….”Let’s use it as an excuse to slag off all estate agents, because we’ve had a terrible experience and made a bad mistake, involving a property purchase.”
    Well I’m sorry but that’s crap, and annoying, and insulting. Proper estate agents, don’t rip people off, and don’t need to rip people off, because they are very successful at what they do, and they do it very well.
    These unfortunate people who have this axe to grind, have bought properties from crooks….There is no other word for them. A lot of the time these purchasers have been very naive, and a lot of the time they have been very greedy, and a lot of the time they have been downright stupid, and a lot of the time they have been unlucky, and very sadly, many have just been been ripped off. That doesn’t mean these people have the right to blame every estate agent in the land for their problems. It’s just not at all fair. I would never ever, condone what has been going on here for years, and is still going on with so called “emerging markets”, marketed fiercely by the likes of companies that we can’t even discuss on this forum, but please don’t for one moment put us all in the same category. I have never ripped anybody off, and I have never misled anyone, and I’ve been in business for over 30 years. I would add that I am far from being an exception in this profession, as there are many, many honest estate agents, who work to a high ethical standard.
    In my first estate agency, I spent at least one morning a week, in the small claims court, trying to recover unpaid commissions, after successful sales, so please explain to me who’se getting ripped off there? There are far more crooked vendors, than there will ever be crooked estate agents, and there are plenty of crooked purchasers too.

    And from “Just Frank”;

    Hi
    I have been involved in sales most of my life and the difference is that I have never sold anything that I had to lie about.
    A good salesman gives overall sales advice is confident about his product or service and leaves customers in a position to make an informed decision.
    Estate agents work for both buyers and seller if not he is not worth his salt the object being to get the right price the seller wants and the right price being the the amount the buyer is willing to pay.
    Happy seller
    Happy buyer
    Happy estate agent as he is paid
    YOU BROKER THE DEAL.

    And also from “Just Frank”

    Hi
    can assure you that its the same just packed up different.
    6 Years as an estate agents and 4 as a business broker its still about bringing buyers and sellers together negotiating the price,picking up the bits when the toys go out of the pram.
    Bring them back to the table and work with both buyer and seller to ensure the deal doesnt fall out of bed.
    Good estate agents dont sell,they ensure that the property they are taking on is the right price for the market and recommend the seller carries out variuos works to enhance to value then find the buyer who in many cases is on your list of potential buyers who are relying on you to find the property of their dreams.
    If your good then its not about selling,its bloody hard work to be good at what you do.

    BRINGING BUYERS AND SELLERS OF PROPERTY OR BUSINESS TOGETHER

    Thank You Frank for your well informed and professional comments. You and Peter Good are 100% correct in what you both say.

    Apologies for this quite long post, but finally in reply to Angie; I don’t agree with your criticism of Viva in this instance, although I have many criticisms of them myself. ( For another time maybe).
    Firstly, do you ever expect any estate agent to advertise a property as having a shit spec/quality. It’s never going to happen. All vendors, (you included Angie,when you are selling), expect their property to be marketed in the best possible way, and described in the most complimentary manner. If we didn’t do this we wouldn’t have a portfolio of properties to sell. In fact, we wouldn’t have one property to sell. I know these properties enough to say, that the quality is similar to what you will find all over the Costa del Sol. It’s not great, but it’s not bad, and as most of them are holiday homes, most owners are perfectly happy with them.
    Secondly, what’s wrong with the location of Alhaurin Golf. It’s a great location, if that’s what you want. You obviously don’t want it, but there are many hundreds of owners who do. Five minutes from Alhaurin el Grande, twenty minutes from the beach, ten minutes from Mijas, thirty minutes from the airport, GOLF! Etc, etc.
    A correct criticism of them would be that they are very much overpriced, and I don’t know why. I would much rather own a property on Mijas Golf, as it’s only 10 minutes from the beach, and all the shops and restaurants in Fuengirola, and just as close to Mijas, and even closer to the airport.

    Yes there are 30 or so for sale. That doesn’t mean those 30 owners are all unhappy there. People sell properties for a multitude of reasons; job re-location, financial, larger property, smaller property, moving closer to the coast, moving further from the coast, illness, bereavement, etc,etc.

    I can’t comment on the security issues that you mention, because I just don’t know, and I’ve never heard of any extraordinary security problems about this development before. You have to remember that there is a growing burglary/crime problem here, all over coastal regions and now moving inland, but in general, it’s a damn site safer here than in the UK. From my experience here, the Policing is much better, although with room for improvement, but they do need to deal with the problem of immigrants arriving here with no cash, and turning to crime as a means of support. Funnily enough, that reminds me of the UK too. At least here, I don’t think you get a life sentence if you shoot an intruder who breaks into your house, or I hope not, because I’m not firing blanks. 😀 😉 👿
    By the way, there are gated complexes on Alhaurin golf too, if you need that extra security. ¡Buenas noches!

  • #79188
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    paulespana:

    Thank you for the best post I have read on this forum!

    You have explained exactly what happens & why sometimes it has gone wrong.

  • #79191
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Has he really 😕

  • #79192
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Sorry Peter, but in my opinion “buy now if you want to make a profit” is an unnecessary blatant porky-pie. No need to say that when advising clients re. looking for property.

    What is a lie? “Buy now if you want to make a profit ” is not necessarily a lie, over a two year period, a profit will almost certainly not be made ; over a 10 year period a profit should be made. Almost certainly the price will be lower in two years time. the property will still be for sale and any future profit will be even larger. The chances are though that the punter will be lied to by another agent and he will secure the sale.

    I have no time for estate agents, but sometimes the client is as much to blame. Let me give you an example some years ago some English people came to my house and asked me if I knew who owned a nearby property, I told them I did .They apparently were in the area and saw a “Se Vende” sign but there were no contact details on it they liked the area and thought the house could be right for them. I said I would contact the owner , a Spaniard and if they would like to come back next day I would find out all the details as to price etc. I saw the owner that night , he gave me all the information. The next day the English couple came back I told them the price, I know no one will believe me but I did n´t put anything on top as I was not an agent and was pleased to help both parties. They went away to consider and I told them if they wanted to see inside the house or wanted me to act as interpreter between them and the owner that would be no problem.

    Did n´t see them again for about three months , I was walking along the lane near my house and they passed me on bikes , they stopped and came back to talk.

    What they came out with nearly made me die with disbelief. A couple of nights after I had given them all the details of the property they were in a bar with an English friend who spoke some Spanish,when the local ,”corredor” , walked in. For those who do not know the term ,in Spain they may for all I know still be around acted for people in the village who wanted to buy or sell a property . Any way their friend asked “the runner” as I call them if he had any properties for sale that could interest his friends who were out from England. Supposedly he had one property that could be of interest, this of course was the one that they had asked me about . It was arranged they should see it , the runner came up with the story that three other people were interested in the property,(a complete lie) but a sales pitch that has been used since grandma fell off the tram, and that they would have to act quickly if they wanted to secure it. Needless to say the price was quite a bit higher than the one I had mentioned as the runners do not work for free.

    Next day they agreed to buy it and paid a holding deposit. They told me all this quite freely and thought they had been very clever, beating the other interested parties . I did n´t have the heart to tell them that they had been lied to, they were happy I did ask them why did they end up paying more money than I had told them the owner wanted , they said they were so worried about these other purchasers beating them to it all they wanted to do was put a deposit down and secure it.

    Sorry the story was so long, I still shake my head when I think about whilst surfing the forum.

    I think it was Winston Churchill who said to a member of an opposing party in the House of Commons; “Sir, you are a perpetrator of teminological inexactitudes”, he could not call the member a liar because he was in the House, but his phrase did say it but in another way. Another way of putting it would be to say that agents are economical with the truth.

  • #79194
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Has he really

    Pathetic comment Katy, it just supports what I said at the beginning of my post. 🙄

    I may be known as mrs negative on here .

    You said it Katy.
    We all live, or live and work, or aspire to, or have an interest here, on the Costa del sol, so why not be positive about it. There is so much to be positive about here, and there is no place for negativity, at all. Yes there are problems everywhere, so let’s deal with them, improve them, or remove them, and not just whinge about them. 🙂

  • #79195
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Thank you for the best post I have read on this forum!

    You have explained exactly what happens & why sometimes it has gone wrong.

    Thanks for your support Rob6578. I’m not the most informed or knowledgeable person on this forum, but I won’t be anything but honest in my comments. God it gets me into trouble sometimes. 🙂

  • #79196
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Peter Good – you say “An apology would be appropriate!”.
    There’s no need for one, you totally misinterpreted my post and for some reason decided to take it personally.

    I said …… “the real world for many agents consists of lying through their back teeth, happy to say anything to get a sale”.
    Note the word many, absolutely no mention of you or the name Peter Good.
    I didn’t put you in that group of many but obviously for some reason – you did.

    My comment that many agents lie is perfectly appropriate for the subject of this thread and is something I know many here on SPI have experienced, including myself.

    If you feel a need to “re-evaluate the advice and comments” I post, that is up to you. But to be honest, I didn’t join this forum to impress agents. I joined to seek advice and possibly help others in the same unfortunate position that I was in. Lied to by my agent, deceived by my lawyer and my monies fraudently held onto by the developer when they knew they weren’t going to build anything. Over the last couple of years I’ve appreciated the help I’ve received on SPI and when I can, hopefully I’ve been able to give a little help back to others with the knowledge I’ve gained.
    If an agent wants to re-evaluate all that or anything I post in the future, then be my guest – I won’t lose any sleep over it.

    I think for your unprovoked and unwarranted outburst (including the words ‘quite disgusting’) an apology would be appropriate?

  • #79197
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    135yearswaiting wrote:
    Sorry the story was so long, I still shake my head when I think about whilst surfing the forum.

    .

    You know why this happened? The answer is easy: they did not work for the money they wasted on the Spanish property.

    They just took advantage of the ramping of UK property whose price tripled in a short period and then used bank money after MEW-ing their property.

    When one works for some amount of money, one saves month after month and restrains from making trips, buying cars of gadgets, then the pain of saving the money will always help one restrain from wasting the money.

    What happened in the last years was that many not-so-bright people got huge amounts of free money which they easily wasted.

    I can assure you that this will not happen again in the next 30 years so the Spanish “runners” will really need to find something else to do.

  • #79198
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @paulespana wrote:

    This topic started off with these comments above from Angie, and from what I have seen of this forum, has gone the way many of the other topics go….”Let’s use it as an excuse to slag off all estate agents”

    That doesn’t mean these people have the right to blame every estate agent in the land for their problems.

    What is it with agents misreading stuff tonight?
    Paul, show me where anyone has slagged off all estate agents. Where have you read anyone blaming every agent in the land for their problems?
    I sometimes feel I’m on a different planet (forum) when reading some of these sweeping statements.
    Please note Angie’s signature is Why do some agents lie continuously? I wrote many agents…Some and many do not equate to all and every. Or maybe it does in agent-speak ❓

    @paulespana wrote:

    Proper estate agents, don’t rip people off, and don’t need to rip people off, because they are very successful at what they do, and they do it very well.

    Well I went to a ‘proper’ estate agent, a big international one, offices from Berkeley Square to Madison Avenue. They don’t need to rip people off because they are very successful at what they do, but they ripped me off and they did it very well.

  • #79202
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    charlie

    i think you have hit a sensitive nerve here. While we all know that all agents are not liars and cheats, i think many of them who consider themselves to be ‘good agents’ are still happy that being very economical with the truth, recommending lawyers they have some financial link with, or making false statements about potential rent, build quality etc, is an acceptable way, and if people are stupid enough to believe them, then so what, they have made a sale.

    I think deep down, the agents accusing us of tarring them all with the same brush are angry that some of the methods they use, they are not comfortable with, and when certain methods are questioned, they have a conscience battle going on.

    The genuine agents we know about on this forum, do not attack those who criticise some agents. Why would they?, they freely admit there are far to many crooks in their business, and have nothing to hide, or feel so insecure about their actions, that they have to feel the need to defend themselves in an accusing way.

  • #79204
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Excellent post paulespana and a good place to end this avenue of the thread for me at least.

  • #79206
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Goodstich – recently we do seem to wander away at times from the measured unbiased contributions we normally enjoy from some of SPI members who are EA’s, such as Inez, jiminspain and Vince.

    I just wish some of these newer EA contributors would read posts properly before sounding off and criticising. Their oversensitivity seems to cloud their ability to understand the written word.

    paulespana mentions Katy for being mrs negative about Spain and promptly gives a diatribe about how there should be no negativity about Spain, “at all”.
    If he’d bothered to read her post properly instead of just picking out her first few words, she was actually defending Spain, saying how the tv programme in question about crime was ‘tosh’.

    Suggest paulespana reads Katy’s post in its entirity, reproduced below for his benefit, and gets down off his high horse.

    “I may be known as mrs negative on here but I have to say this programme was a load of tosh! They seemed to imply that Brits living here are living in fear of crime. Have to say that I feel safer here than the UK. I have lived in a semi-rural area for 8 years and myself and my neighbours are not aware of crime at this level. Makes sense to be aware in any tourist area anywhere in the world but this programme is crazy!”.

    Do you get it now Paul?

  • #79208
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Excellent post Paul.
    Funnything is I used to hate E/As however you really do have to work as one before you realise just how low Joe Public will go at times.
    Also how is it that no one likes and estate agent until they get the asking price or more for your property

    As is often the case you have to be able to see both sides or you get blinkered veiws

    Agree that this thread should now end as enough has been said 😈

    Frank 8)

  • #79210
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    charlie

    sadly, i think the agents you mentioned are probably in the minority. The comments made by some agents on this thread only confirm by belief in that!

  • #79217
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Thanks for pointing that out charlie, I was quoted out of context, something that agents are good at 😉 I ought to have said “I may be known as Mrs negative on here (Re. dodgy agents and developers)”

  • #79218
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Just a brief note, I know there have been some lengthy posts already.

    Dealing in an ethical manner is a personal preference and understanding. However, I would like to point out that the legislation under the UK Estate Agents Act, 1979 prohibits being paid by both the vendor and buyer.

    I am not aware of Spanish legislation concerning this aspect.

    Perhaps the reason there is so much hostility from buyers (mainly) against agents is because they felt, believed or were told that they (the agent) worked for them (the buyer) not the vendor – just a thought?

    AP

  • #79222
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Apotter

    sounds like the 79 act is there for a very good reason. I think most people with their head screwed on would take agent talk (or any sales talk concerning large amounts of money for that matter) with a pinch of salt, (it’s his/her job to sell) and then go and check out the real facts as far as they can for themselves. Sometimes though, for various reasons, the agent is the only one who might have the answer to a question, due to their knolwedge of the product. In that scenario, it would be nice to feel you will get the truth. So many have been let down on that score, that it doesn’t suprise me that hostility towards agents is rife.

    ….and lawyers, surely they should be far more accountable than they are at present?, at some stage we all have to trust someone!

  • #79235
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    In reply to the criticisms of my last posts;(and yes Charlie, I do get it, and have been getting it all along. Aren’t you? Maybe that’s your problem?
    And yes Charlie, I do read everything properly, and quite intensely, although my comments were of a generalising nature.

    Firstly, I stand by everything I said, in all of my posts of last night, and for the member who obviously doesn’t understand the posts by Just Frank, that I endorsed, I will explain it again, as simply for him as possible.
    As Estate agents, we are employed by the vendor. The vendor agrees to pay us a commission. We offer the property for sale. We find a buyer. The buyer makes an offer, usually a lot less than the vendor wants to sell for. We negotiate between both parties, to find a mutually agreeable price. We succeed, and that success is dependant upon the current market conditions. The sale moves to contract, and hopefully completes, to the satisfaction of the three parties. The lawyer gets paid, then we get paid. Who pays us? The vendor, or his lawyer may write the cheque, but where did the money come from? The purchaser. So who is our client? Obviously the vendor at the beginning, but later on in the transaction, the purchaser definitely becomes very, and crucially important, in the transaction, and we mustn’t forget, probably a future vendor for us, albeit, possibly many years later. And he/she provides the cash for the transaction to proceed. In my opinion, the vendor and the purchaser are equally important, and for that reason should be both considered as clients, although the estate agent should never lose sight of where his instructions arose from originally, without which, his existence would be severely compromised.
    By the way goodstich44, whose side are you on? You’ve criticised me, but practically endorsed what I said in my posts, although in different words. What’s the point of that?

    I’m shocked by the bitterness of some of the posters in this forum, and I may be quite a new contributor, Charlie, but that doesn’t mean that I haven’t followed the forum for quite some time, and that I haven’t studied all the postings by certain members. I would invite any visitor to this thread, and indeed the whole forum, to do the same, and study carefully the posts, of each individual poster.
    What you will find generally, is that a whinger now, has consistently been a whinger throughout the length of their participation here. My opinion is that these are generally, (I will have to keep using that term or I will give Charlie a chance to nit-pick again, and he loves to do that!) people that have bad experiences, in a property purchase, and I sympathise with them all. I know why it hurts so much, it was one, if not the biggest financial transactions of their lives. I would have felt the same, and I nearly came a cropper here, during my first purchase of a plot. I was very, very careful, I used a great Spanish lawyer, who I will always use, bought privately(which I said I wouldn’t do), and then endured 6 months of hell, from the crooked and totally psycho Swede that I bought from. He only ripped me off for an extra €3500 cash in that deal, but during the transaction, the Junta de Andalucia brought in a new rural land law, and I lost my right to build 300m2, entirely. On the other hand, 3 years later, the psycho Swede sold his other plot, opposite me, (through Viva, and incidentally I believe, never paid them.) for twice what I paid, which included an amount for services etc, of around €25,000.
    The purchasers…or Viva, have never seen him since, and they are now having to pay again for what he didn’t provide. Fortunately, I know where he is, and one day….
    Anyway, the point of this is, did I blame my lawyer for allowing this to happen? No! Did I try and blame anyone else? No! It was my fault, for buying from a crook. You can call it anything you like, but I was entirely to blame for letting myself get in the position, to be ripped off. And I should have known better. OK, so what’s that got to do with estate agents? Nothing!… but my neighbours bought through Viva. was it Viva’s fault?. No not at all! Viva offered this property for sale in good faith, sold it, and were ripped off themselves. My neighbours were ripped off for at least €25,000, and do they blame Viva? No, not at all. They know that they were naive in not keeping a large retention, (as I did), and they blame nobody but themselves,(well maybe their lawyer 🙂 )
    I re-iterate. If something goes wrong in a property transaction, the estate agent always generally, (for Charlie), gets the blame. And OK we accept that. It’s part of the job description, and it’s there for us to deal with, and try and sort out. But for heavens sake, it’s not fair, and it’s very often not right, and if you want to criticise me for standing up for myself… carry on. On the other hand, why not move on and enjoy your life, or maybe get one. After all life, is just too short. You that I speak of, are doing just as much damage to the housing market here, as any of the crooked lawyers, or crooked, so called estate agents and crooked developers, have done in the past 10 years. Every negative comment, here or elsewhere, is picked up by someone, and passed down the line. How much do you think ends up in the British media. They’re having a field day. The natives are fighting between themselves. They don’t need to do or say anything, but they do.
    Every negative comment that appears, brings down the value of all our properties, a few points a time. I repeat…It’s time to move on.

    And Charlie, I have noted all your sarcastic comments, and your nit-picking, and I’m not going to rise to the bait, but I will give you some advice. If you think that maybe I, as a new contributor am oversensitive…

    I just wish some of these newer EA contributors would read posts properly before sounding off and criticising. Their oversensitivity seems to cloud their ability to understand the written word.

    Maybe it’s time, for you as an old member, to retire, and for the forum to recruit more positive and sensible members. Victor Meldrew was funny, you’re not. You’re just a joke that nobody laughs at. 😛
    That’s the end of this thread for me, because I’ve got more important things to do, than spend hours here, although I’m sure we’ll meet again in future threads. ¿Buenas noches!

  • #79237
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    I am not quite sure what you are saying here 😕 Are you posting as an estate agent who is worried about future (none) sales or are you posting as a property owner who is scared that some of the disasters regarding property purchase in spain may actually deflate the value of your home!

    You suggest an old (and valuable contributor) to the forum , retire because you (of a half dozen posts) take exception to a some hard facts that may be getting close to the truth. Charlie and other posters on here have not been put off posting by dodgy lawyers and corrupt agents threatening libel actions and I don’t think waffly posts by an upstart will make any difference. Posts such as your only re-enforce the view people have of anyone involved in the spanish property market, you haven’t done yourself any favours 😈

  • #79240
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    paulespana

    you asked who’s side am i on. Well the answer is, on the side of the person who has done their homework, followed the rules, but at some stage has had to rely on the word on the word of an agent/lawyer, and as a result has been conned out of much money. You should know as well as i do the amount of people who have been cheated and lied to by the dodgy agents/lawyers/developers etc. The agents katy has mentioned on this thread have earned their respect through dealing with people in an acceptable maner. Can you get the same feedback from your customers if you talk about your dealings on this thread? If you can, all well and good.

    charlie, like myself is just one of many who have been lied to, cheated, conned, (call it what you like) by spineless scumbags without a decent bone in their body. Why the hell should we blame ourselves their faults?. We are decent people, they are liars taking advantage of their position, and as well as many buyers, have let their own side down big time as well.

    Ever since i’ve posted on this forum, (about 4 years) the people who reveal themselves through their politics/opinions as decent folk, charlie, katy, suzzane, drakan(lawyer) among others, standing up for those who have been wronged, have been criticised by those who show themselves (though they try very hard not to) to be of a similar opinion to the cheating scum bags who have caused so much misery. Their usual defence is along the lines of ‘its the buyers fault for allowing themselves to be cheated, they only have themselves to blame………What a load of bull, a con man is a con man, and in a system with decent regulation would pe punished as such, as would their decent victim be rewarded.

    I hope that answers your question.

  • #79241
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    paulespana wrote:
    and they are now having to pay again for what he didn’t provide. Fortunately, I know where he is, and one day….
    You that I speak of, are doing just as much damage to the housing market here, as any of the crooked lawyers, or crooked, so called estate agents and crooked developers, have done in the past 10 years. Every negative comment that appears, brings down the value of all our properties, a few points a time. I repeat…It’s time to move on.
    Maybe it’s time, for you as an old member, to retire, and for the forum to recruit more positive and sensible members. Victor Meldrew was funny, you’re not. You’re just a joke that nobody laughs at. 😛
    That’s the end of this thread for me, because I’ve got more important things to do, than spend hours here, although I’m sure we’ll meet again in future threads. ¿Buenas noches!

    So let’s see:
    – you are trying to find the right moment to pay back to the Swede guy (do you have guns or other weapons)?
    – Charlie is one of the responsible persons for the decline of property prices in Spain…
    – you think that the Forum recruits people…

    Does your mummy know that you spend so much on the internet before drinking your milk?

  • #79244
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    What a load of self righteous indignation from people on the forum who are only promoting their own interests. You can’t insult people and then ask for an apology.That’s hilarious! This forum really has become quite amusing…

    “Would the corpulant agents be expected to tell the client not to buy for a few years. They would be commiting commercial suicide if they did. How would they pay their rents etc?”
    This is condoning being economical with the truth, which might be interpreted as dishonesty. A buyer needs the full facts and when you are dealing with someones life savings I think that you need to be very certain you are on the right side of the line between truth and lies.
    Because you are dealing with people’s hopes and dreams you can’t compare buying a house to buying a car as the poster goes on to.
    It’s not commercial suicide to give a potential buyer the real facts -you will stand out among your peers and anyway many times the purchaser can’t or won’t wait. For example, I intend to buy a house within the next 12 months regardless of the state of the market because I’m tired of renting. I would prefer a place that needs some work but is structurally sound. Could I be the only person in the world who wants to do this?

    I don’t see how you can employ this buyer beware argument and then pretend that you work for the buyer. You work for who pays you -it’s as simple as that. You can’t have it both ways.

    I can’t remember a single post in this forum that says all EAs are scumbags -in my personal experience, most of the EAs that I have dealt with in Spain have shown very low moral and ethical standards. I have met a few good ones -they stand out like sore thumbs and if you are one of them then good for you – you potentially could still be very successful in this awful market.

    How did it all get so hysterical here?

  • #79251
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I once wrote a very long post, to a member called Gary.
    His reply was “Charlie, I have not read your posting fully as after 5 mins I lost the will to live”.
    I now know what he felt like. 🙁

  • #79252
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Paulespana
    As has been posted you havent done yourself any favours in responding to someones posting.
    Please understand that many dont have the actual hands on experience of the nuts and bolts of this market and do tend to post at times with this blanket view that tarnishes us all with the same brush.
    You have had comments that yours was the best posting someone had ever seen and backed up.( 🙁 )
    Think most of us consider your posting in an formative and honest manner suggest at this point the arguments should stop as there are no winners as you are finding out.
    Welcome to the forum and its great to see new blood, long may this continue as in your case this hands on information is far better than relying on second the hand which many of us have.

    P.S that posting was from someone who was a very valued member if I recall

    Frank 8)

  • #79259
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    Just Frank wrote:
    Paulespana
    Think most of us consider your posting in an formative and honest manner suggest at this point the arguments should stop as there are no winners as you are finding out.

    Most of us???

    You are happy that Paul espana offends some people that you do not like…

  • #79264
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Ralita 🙂
    Its not a case of who likes who as hopefully we post freely to share experiences and offer help and advice where we can.
    Its is a case where silly comments like you have just made and have been made on this thread that waste everyones time and only causes ill feelings and viewers look on at these tit for tat,s where personal issues come before the forum.
    I have clearly suggested that arguments should stop as you have confirmed however its the very likes of your goodself that dont know when to stop 🙂

    Frank 8)

  • #79265
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @ralita wrote:

    You are happy that Paul espana offends some people that you do not like…

    Oh yes, Frank’s always like a ‘piggy rolling around in the brown stuff’ when that happens!

    Though don’t worry, am certainly not offended – most of the post belongs on the humour thread:

    “I would invite any visitor to this thread, and indeed the whole forum, to do the same, and study carefully the posts, of each individual poster”.
    All 22,340 of them?? 🙁 ………………….. 😆 😆 😆

  • #79266
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    Just Frank wrote:
    Ralita 🙂
    Its is a case where silly comments like you have just made and have been made on this thread that waste everyones time and only causes ill feelings and viewers look on at these tit for tat,s where personal issues come before the forum.
    I have clearly suggested that arguments should stop as you have confirmed however its the very likes of your goodself that dont know when to stop 🙂

    Your comments on this forum have always been total non-sense. Why do you want to waste people’s time by posting things which do not have a beggining and and end? Can’t you write
    something which actually has a meaning?

    You are just hiding behind some words which can be turned upside down or straigthened back!

  • #79267
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @ralita wrote:

    You are just hiding behind some words which can be turned upside down or straigthened back!

    That’s if you’re quick enough before Frank first edits his posts about three times, then totally deletes them once someone has replied, then re-writes them the next morning saying something totally different. It’s hard keeping up sometimes. 🙁

    The forum ‘entertainer’, but the forum wouldn’t be the same without him. 😉

  • #79268
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Charlie
    Just not in your club Charlie as I have a brain of my own. 😉
    Will let you have the last post as normal and hopefully yet another forum can be allowed to get back on track,with your permission of course.
    I see that you are going out to Spain again soon for a couple of weeks,no doupt you will come back as an expert again 😕

    Forgot to say YES CHARLIE I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAY 😕
    Your last posting was 100% correct and please carry on with the insulting comments against me )I promise not to reply in the same vain.

    Yep Rialta Have personal messages asking not to reply to your postings and will p/m the comments so no pedistal for you I am afraid
    .
    My spelling and grammer is not so good so watch if I correct anything later.
    Just forgot and added the backside,forward thingy must be something to to with being involved with the Spanish Property market to long

    Frank 8)

  • #79272
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    Just Frank wrote:
    Yep Rialta Have personal messages asking not to reply to your postings and will p/m the comments so no pedistal for you I am afraid
    .

    I told you many times before to not reply if you do not have anyhting smart to add.
    But I guess I am knocking at the wrong door.

    I was nor refering to grammar but to the way you like to turn words around and upside down.

    You really seem to be a good vendor, I guess many buyers can fell prey to your tactics…
    Congratulations.

  • #79273
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Would never class myself as an expert Frank – though there are some on the forum who would arrogantly claim that they are. I always try to listen and learn but it has to be from someone whose views I respect.
    This thread’s title has obviously caused some to bark loudly in defense of their profession – no matter what facts are written. It is up to other members to sort out the wheat from the chaff.

  • #79275
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    My goodness, what a thread! I have been reading and sitting back for a while to see how it opens up and ther is debate on both sides of the coin.

    As an agent, and the definition is bringing together 2 parties to assist ion a mutual agreement and conclusion, it can be debatable who actually pays

    Here in Spain, many agents add their commission on to the net price the owner wnats – so who actually pays it? Although we recieve the fee from the selling side, it is the buyer providing the money for him to do so!

    Anyway, away from that, I believe there is a moral and it should be legal obligation for an agent to tell the truth as best he can. If I dont know the answer I go and find out. If Im asked about renting a property, I tell them there’s no way you’re going to cover all the costs and any way renting now is very hard – people arent paying as they themselves have no money – equally the holiday lets are right down now

    Im sure I have said all this before and yes it is commercial suicide in the short term to tell the truth, but the fact is people do come back to you, recommend their friends and over time you have a stable business.

    Ive lost count of the many prospective sales I have lost by advising people against the property when they have asked me what they should do – after all, if they dont know, why on earth should I? But at least I sleep at night

    Yes the market is bad, I am finding great difficulty in getting both sides to the table, not because Im bad at what I do, but because in the current climate its just not stacking up and many owners owe the same on mortgages as the bank valuations have come down to. I therefore see a lull for me for a period of adjustment time and am looking at moving into other things to tide me over whilst still keeping my hand in the game.

    And thats what many are doing or will have to do – its just market forces of the time and nothing can be done about it.

    Despite the problems, people have a right to the truth and facts when buying. End of story.

  • #79277
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Inez 🙂

    If your good at what you do then you have no reason to lie.
    I am very good at what I do and work my arse off maintaining a reputation that I guard second only to my family and friends.

    Thanks for the posting and hopefull things will pick up soon and this thread will now be allowed to get back on track.

    Frank 8)

  • #79283
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    At last, some honest words from one of the agents whose opinion I do respect, stating things as they really are in the real world. And one I will be visiting if/when I decide to buy again.

    I can’t stand ‘bull’, half truths and excuses for not saying how things really are just because thats what lots of other agents do. Pathetic and dishonest.
    Glad to see you back Inez, I was wondering if you were ‘lurking’…..

    * This praise does not come from another agent by the way. 😉

  • #79284
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Inez

    isn’t it great when the very same people who virtually defend the cheats and liars in your industry, (not suprising as they probably share the same lack of moral fibre), by telling the victims that they should ‘live in the real world, and ‘not blame the cheats, but should blame themselves for being caught by them’……..also rush to congratulate you good guys for being straight!

    Priceless!!

  • #79285
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Life is not an easy thing to navigate through. Every day we come across a dialema. It could be, should I tell my daughter about the dangers of drugs at 10 years old or at 13 yrs old. I know everone here can relate to an example of the type of thing I am touching on here.

    Those same dialemas happen in the workplace all day every day.

    So yes, an estate agent has the ethical responsibility to inform the client which is the better area, however, we don´t always know what area in the UK they have come from. If I give my opinion of an area the clients asked for about say crime and the type of people who live there, what would they think of me if they too were a troublesome family in their area of the UK.

    The fact is, much of what we do is not our business to comment on. Though we still do it.

    We could say the bars are noisy at night, but the clients may be happy with that if they drink out every night in those kinds of places.

    We are treading very thin ice by nannying people into buying something that suits us but may not be their cup of tea.

    If an Estate Agent only offers legal and reasonably priced property for the money, then they meet obligation number 1.

    If they are polte and answer questions honestly, then they have met obligation number 2.

    If they then begin to comment and guess and speculate which way the property market is going, (as many posters including myself have done on Marks thread) – then we are simply way out of order and our remit ,as Estate Agents.

    I will not speculate if an airport may come or not come in 5 years, it´s out of my power to do so, I will not estimate how long it will take to double the buyers money, that too is out of my power.

    All property buyers must research areas and prices berfore they choose a place to settle. If they expect an Estate Agent to do this for them, then they have a good chance of falling into the clutches of a con-man.

    They should lean on their lawyer for searches and future proposed building work. If I am asked what I know, then I will tell them, but the minute clients fire question after question about things I do not know for sure then it is time to sit them in front of a lawyer.

    Most buyers lean on their Estate Agent for things that they are not qualified to do, that is when the trouble begins.

    I don´t much care for giving advice, though I am happy to answer questions on subjects relating to my job.

    If agents did what they should, which let´s face it, is show good property at decent prices only, then they could make life easier for themselves and safer for their clients.

    I have no control over the finances or construction speed of builders or promotors, if after a 2 year wait my clients find the property overdue or the builder is about to go bust over some other project, I can only help their lawyer so much. I can comiserate deeply, but, I cannot do any more than that legally, nor can anyone say I knew it would happen if I genuinly didn´t.

    Yes I would remove the builders properties from my list, and tell all other agents I know not to deal with them, but that´s about it.

    We all depend on others fullfilling obligations, but often we are powerless to ensure those obligations are met.

    Resales are easier and less likely to go wrong, especially if the agent ensures they only offer legal ones. I am much happier selling what is built and more than 80% of my business is resale. I have few new-build projects, they are legal, but as I said, I have no control over the finances of their promotors.

  • #79289
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Goodstich –
    don’t worry, his post will be edited 3 times, then deleted, then totally re-written by the morning……..and everyone will wonder what you are on about. 😕

  • #79291
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Think they think that anyway 😉

    Frank 8)

  • #79295
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Thanks Guys and yes I was lurking!!! Guilty as charged

    And yes it is not easy to speculate on the future, but any normal person coming to live or buy in Spain will do so and when you are in the industry, you do have valid information and a basis for the future. Whilst much is speculative, speculation itself is usually based on beliefs and reasonable forsight based on the given facts.

    I do get asked and tell people whats happened in my experience (24 years of it so far) and when I worked as an agent in the UK, it was normal for people to tell me what they were looking for and then for me to call them if I had something that ticked their boxes. I still do that here and saves me an awful lot of wasted time both with buyers and sellers.

    I can give an idea of how I think things will go, firstly as many I have lived through this before, but also as the pulse changes daily here at the moment I can see how it is.

    I would have thought that to be normal really.

  • #79418
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Frank, has it occurred to you that by taking part in these slanging matches you are as guilty as anyone of these threads losing their way?

  • #79471
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Forest Fire
    Yep I am as guilty as almost everyone else on the forums including your goodself.
    Would be magic if the bickering could stop altogether however to many factors and to many motives,reasons why we post and that may prove difficult. 😕
    As Katy mentioned which I think sums. 🙂
    “The people that know the real me ? 😀 “
    Sure if we all met for a drink or two we would see each other in the real light and probably look back at our postings and look how sad we have been at times.
    Recent Quotes . Katy is a valued MEMBER 😕 of the forum,?(in whoes eyes?)is she a valued MEMBER. 👿
    Of course she is a valued contributer/ poster? of the forum,are we not all valued posters? of the forum as we give our time freely to contribute in the way we feel helps.
    Why is it that some E,As are welcome and others are not,why is it some solicitors are welcome and some are not. 😈
    Why should E.As out side the click take so much flack and insults even in cases where they are or have been involved in the market surely these are valuable source of SPANISH PROPERTY INSIGHT.
    What makes it right that some can post lists saying this person is a valid MEMBER and this one is on the other side 😈 just because his or her posting is not in agreement with the someone.
    WHAT DOES SOMEONE HAVE TO DO TO BE A MEMBER.? Have no brain/no opinion of there own/only wanting to post liers,cheats.crooks all the time.
    WHO JUDGES US REGARDING THIS VALUED MEMBERS LIST. ❓
    As was stated this week the forums should be opened up to let new blood in and the reponce from one outside of the regular crew posted that that was the best posting he had ever seen.
    Why is it that there are a few brown nosers that that feel they can make accusations or cause offence to a poster then cry wolf if they are replied to in the same vain.How dare they post in such a manner that upsets new posters without cause.then call themselves MEMBERS.
    This is hopefully an OPEN forum and sooner the MEMBERS 🙄 attitude is put to one side then bickering will never stop.
    No doupt one of the MEMBERS will respond to this posting as it clearly will bring the normal responce which is the norm in closed clubs.
    No doupt this posting will get me into trouble and if thats part of having an opinion/having a brain/not wanting to join any club/being not one of the most intellent as some/someone who is not willing to accept insults without reply then let it take its course.
    Dont concern yourself Mark I will not reply to this posting to anyone that may want to start a bicker and appologise if you feel it inappropriate.
    Sorry also that some may fall asleep reading it. 😉

    Frank 8)

    P.S think I had better say my goodbyes 😕 8)

  • #79473
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Frank I think anyones opinion is valid as the name says as some people will have a different “insight” to someone else. If someone has bought and is satisfied I think that is great, share the experience. What does annoy me is when agents who have never made a useful contribution to the forum come on and start bickering and challenging the views of people who have experienced problems.

    I really would like to see Spains problems out in the open becasue if they don’t get their heads out of the sand they will never move on and improve the system. (which will be better for all of us property owners) 🙂

  • #79498
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    katy said

    ”What does annoy me is when agents who have never made a useful contribution to the forum come on and start bickering and challenging the views of people who have experienced problems.”

    well said katy. Can anyone be so dim as not to see why some agents are not welcome on here? Surely it’s not rocket science to see that when they claim to bring ‘balance’ to an argument against the liars, what they really mean is ‘we have been rumbled as having similar views to the scum bags’ and in a desperate attempt to not appear that way, we will claim we are open minded, or have another view etc. It’s a very familiar pattern, and the more they attack those who are trying to help those who have been wronged, the more they bury themselves.

    All good fun eh’

  • #79512
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    😕

    Been away for a while but in answer to Peter Good I believe it´s financial suicide for agents to blatantly lie about the state of the falling Spanish Property market, and, I think it´s up to all of us to point this out to potential naive victims otherwise Spain will remain a property nightmare, full of crooked agents, developers and lawyers.

    I have however met a more honest UK agent in Spain who says it how it really is, that is the market IS going to fall further this year, don´t buy for at least a year or two (if at all), make offers of a third less than asking prices, but better to rent before buying anyway.

    Peter, it´s not very nice advocating more lies and comparing this to Politics, although I do see the comparison with 2nd hand car salesmen and timeshare fraudsters.

    My advice is to avoid Spanish property as an investment full stop, ask what extortionate commission the agent is getting from the sale, trust no-one, only buy if it´s a real bargain to live in and do your checks for illegal building/land grab/crime etc

    but better still walk away to somewhere safer, avoid Spain´s corruption until their Gov´t really address the problems.

  • #79517
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Above my office door is a sign that says “Estate Agent”. That is what I do, I sell Spanish property to people who come in and ask for it.

    I don´t force anyone in off the street.

    If someone askes to purchase a property from me, I go about the business politely and help make it happen.

    I have no right to ask the client why they wish to buy today, nor will I tell them to wait for 2 years as I don´t know what the market will be like in 2 years, It could be that there will be an exchange rate of 1 euro = 1 pound. If that were to happen, then I would have given bad advice.

    No where on my sign does it say “councelling” or “market speculator.”

    I use this forum for discussing the market trends and to gain further knowledge about my job from some very good contributors here, I don´t discuss the subject with clients looking to change their lifestyle.

  • #79520
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Peter

    i can see what you are saying, and if it was apples and pears you were selling, then fair enough. Surely though, rightly on wrongly, some people will trust your word as an expert on their potential purchase, and with you knowing their situation, will trust that you will help them on what could be a life changing/ruining? decission.

    I feel if a code of conduct that was answerable in a court room was strictly adhered to, then far less ‘dodgy’ agents would get away with daylight robbery in the name of ‘just doing their job’.

  • #79525
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @goodstich44 wrote:

    Peter

    i can see what you are saying, and if it was apples and pears you were selling, then fair enough. Surely though, rightly on wrongly, some people will trust your word as an expert on their potential purchase, and with you knowing their situation, will trust that you will help them on what could be a life changing/ruining? decission.

    I feel if a code of conduct that was answerable in a court room was strictly adhered to, then far less ‘dodgy’ agents would get away with daylight robbery in the name of ‘just doing their job’.

    Sadley goodstich, there is still a percentage of buyers coming into me, and other agents asking for the wrong kind of advice.

    Questions such as “will my children settle into the school”? “Are there any jobs going in the area”? “Where can I purchase a car”?

    It shows that buyers are still not researched enough before making these big decisions. They should not be asking an estate agent those questions, and sadly their Spanish lawyer would not know the answers either.

    The internet is where they will find an array of answers, both good and bad.

    I really dont know if their children will like the school, or if there are jobs available. I don´t really know of an honest car dealer, either in Spain or the UK.

    Being non commital on these questions is no use either, as the clients seem desperate to know the answers. It´s the part of the job I least like. I often wish I could just show the clients properties and deal with the job in hand. I don´t like being put in the position of adviser of all things Spanish.

    My only real way of dealing with these requests is to give the client several local newspapers with articles and advertisers of such things they need. It feels like a cop-out, but at the end of the day it´s better to let them read the answers from others than hold me to every peice of advice if anything goes wrong with their childs education or car.

    If they ask me questions about the property, I know I am equipped with the answers. Eg. it has 2 bedrooms, 1000m2 plot, how much the IBI is etc. But when they ask “what will it be worth in 2 years”? well, then I am not even going to guess one way or the other.

    At the end of the day, I am an estate agent, I´m not a lifestyle guru, I am not an economist, and I don´t want to be.

    I stick to what I know, and leave the rest to others. If you don´t promise anything you cannot control, then you cannot be held responsible.

  • #79526
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    Peter Good wrote:
    At the end of the day, I am an estate agent, I´m not a lifestyle guru, I am not an economist, and I don´t want to be.

    I stick to what I know, and leave the rest to others. If you don´t promise anything you cannot control, then you cannot be held responsible.

    Peter, in normal conditions nobody would have had much resentment against delelopers, estate agents, lawyers.

    But we are now at the end of the biggest theft in history, when millions of buyers were
    mislead all around the globe in buying overpriced property. Some of them did not even
    get anything at all due to developers who became greedy and overxtended and went bankrupt.

    Everybody in industry should learn and try to avoid these scams in the future.

    Hopefully banks will be more prudent and people will wisen up (this will be quite hard considering the dumbing down of schools and lack of elementary mathematics knowledge…).

  • #79531
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I´m not sure about the “Biggest theft in history” theory ralita.

    It´s simply a case of natural market influences. I was with a group of Spanish friends at the weekend, most are in property in some way. They were in general agreement that the present market i.e. flat – was the norm for Spain up until the Northern European demands began to kick in. Prior to that, nothing much happened. They stated what we have witnessed is a boom fuelled by an outside influence.

    They say the market is flat, and pretty much how it was before the boom.

    The huge increase in supply was fuelled by that Northern European demand plus a growing home market.

    I agree with them that the British, Germans, French etc, have all come over waiving their money and the Spanish builders have happilly taken it. Now, the fickle overseas buyers have gone elsewhere or are holding back leaving Spain with an overhang to deal with.

    Some could say the Spanish developers were greedy, but so were the investors.

    We now have a situation where the Spanish market has gone flat, we all expect prices to drop further. This will help stableise things over time and return prices to a realistic level.

    Meanwhile, those who came to Spain to live can sit tight. I doubt they will loose in the long term, and will no doubt enjoy their homes and the sunshine with a wry smile.

  • #79532
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Peter I posted a reply to one of your posts in the wrong topic, I put it in investors 😳

  • #79533
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The “biggest theft in history” was fueled by banks.

    Realistic level means take the price of 1997 and multiply by rate of inflation. As discussed in Financial Times article, the current prices are twice as much in Spain as they should be.

    This made many developers to overbuild.

    By the time many of the current empy apartments are sold, the market will impose a readjustement of prices. This would mean either flat prices for 10-15 years (which means a loss due to inflation) or a sharp drop followed by historical raise with inflation.

    In USA the second possibility is happening now (of course some bubble areas experince an 80% drop and others 20% drop).

    I have no idea which way will go in Spain but I expect the sharp drop possibility.

    Either way, it is a financial suicidal to purchase in Spain in 2008.

    I respect your job as real estate agent and I agree that you cannot tell these things to potential buyers…

  • #79535
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    Peter I posted a reply to one of your posts in the wrong topic, I put it in investors 😳

    I´m always doing that katy no worries. It could be why I am so mis-understood 😀

  • #79544
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Katy

    Frank I think anyones opinion is valid as the name says as some people will have a different “insight” to someone else. If someone has bought and is satisfied I think that is great, share the experience. What does annoy me is when agents who have never made a useful contribution to the forum come on and start bickering and challenging the views of people who have experienced problems.

    I really would like to see Spains problems out in the open becasue if they don’t get their heads out of the sand they will never move on and improve the system. (which will be better for all of us property owners)

    100% agree as we are all loosers at the moment and do understand your feelings.

    Frank 8)

  • #79663
    Profile photo of Paul
    Paul
    Participant

    🙄

    Quite right Frank, Spain needs to get it´s head out of the sand but also get on with it quickly and sort out the corruption and mess that is Spanish Property at present. There are too many grey areas, too many crooked agents and developers still operating in cahoots with their dodgy lawyers.

    It is foolhardy for Brits to buy in Spain at present for all the reasons outlined on this M.B., but now even worse with the current exchange rate meaning we have to pay maybe 15% more for property than a while ago.

    Better to sell to convert back to sterling if you can sell.

  • #79812
    Profile photo of Paul
    Paul
    Participant

    😆

    Did anyone see the tv prog. each morning about living in the sun? The fair haired female estate agent agent talks a complete load of baloney, she really doesn´t know what she´s saying, she´s supposed to be an expert advising her clients who sometimes end up buying total overpriced rubbish.

    Wonder what commission she makes on each sale?

  • #79819
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Did anyone see the tv prog. each morning about living in the sun? The fair haired female estate agent agent talks a complete load of baloney, she really doesn´t know what she´s saying, she´s supposed to be an expert advising her clients who sometimes end up buying total overpriced rubbish.

    Wonder what commission she makes on each sale?

    I get very angry with these tv programmes when they bring on a so called expert on property when her only qualification is a big cleavage .
    I have commented before that there was a programme on a UK radio station a couple of years ago with some girl who was supposed to be a property expert, the rubbish she came out with was unbelievable I became angrier by the minute tried to put a question to this idiot by telephone but could n´t get through. So I sent an email asking about the Valencian land grab, the continuity man put the question to her and she came out with the following statement”The Valencian laws were not a problem and that a buyer in that area could quite safely buy without problems.”

    I sent another email not quite so polite this time but it was not used.

    I am afraid that the media has a vested interest in trying to sell advertising, this is why they give time to these blonde barbie´s . Whether it is tv , radio and press in the Uk or Spain .THEY SURVIVE ON ADVERTISING.
    REM.FM is n´t promoting its “be positive”campaign because they think it is right they are doing it to satisfy advertisers be they in property ,banking, financial advice or whatever. I have almost stopped listening to the station now as these banal adverts that are played every 15mins such as “My name is Joe Bloggs and I came to live on the Costa del Sol three years ago, its the best move I ever made” Very good I am very happy for you Mr Bloggs, but would you still make the move NOW knowing as you must do of the thousands and thousands caught up in horrendous situations.?

  • #79915
    Profile photo of Paul
    Paul
    Participant

    😡

    These agents are a major part of the problem in the Spanish property market. Spain should weed them out to try and bring some credibility back.

  • #80249
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    🙁

    Real Estate TV and one or two other Spanish websites are financed/backed by some of the worst Estate Agents in Spain for deception, again, why doesn´t this feeble Spanish Gov´t crack down on these scammers?

  • #80466
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Operation White Whale centred on a law firm, confirms the recycling of profits from International Drug Trafficking into Spanish construction.

    No less than 20 drug traffickers arrested in last 3 years had their own Estate Agencies. Wonder which ones?

    The Olive Press states their were 700 International mafia gangs operating on the Coast of Spain, and a high level of involvment of lawyers and notaries in organised crime.

    Who can you trust in Spain, wake up the feeble Spanish Government?:x

    Get rid of your crooked Estate Agents, Developers and Lawyers!!! 👿

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.