ESTATE AGENTS IN SPAIN

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This topic contains 39 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 7 years, 10 months ago.

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  • #54606
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    Anonymous
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    Why are agency fees so high in Spain? I’m really not surprised that they’re going out of business so fast!!! Isn’t it about time they realised that people are’nt prepared to pay their exorbitent fees? I don’t live in Spain but have a second home in Marbella. If I should ever decide to sell it would never be through an agency.
    The sooner these avaricious operatives go out of business the better. There is an opening here surely for a new breed of honest estate agents (yes, I know what you’re thinking ) who will market your property at a fair and realistic fee. I live in hope and anticipation!

    Sarnia

  • #88905
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    Anonymous
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    Well, I don’t think they are all a rip off, but some are just outright crooks IMHO. I guess the real source of the problem is that it is easy for greedy agents to get away with this. I would like to see it made transparent at the very least, and maybe even caps of fees.

    But, I do know a couple of agents that work for a flat fee, and they seem great value for money. So, maybe you just need to find one of the better agencies.

  • #88906
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    @sarnia wrote:

    Why are agency fees so high in Spain? I’m really not surprised that they’re going out of business so fast!!! Isn’t it about time they realised that people are’nt prepared to pay their exorbitent fees? I don’t live in Spain but have a second home in Marbella. If I should ever decide to sell it would never be through an agency.
    The sooner these avaricious operatives go out of business the better. There is an opening here surely for a new breed of honest estate agents (yes, I know what you’re thinking ) who will market your property at a fair and realistic fee. I live in hope and anticipation!

    Sarnia

    Do you happen to know of just the person to start marketing for a realistic fee 😆

  • #88912
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Maybe Chris of Viva will start his 2% offer again!

  • #88914
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hmmm: Estate Agents transparent its not the nature of the beast.
    In a country like Spain, people will always hail a person who manage’s to get away with it.

  • #88978
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    Anonymous
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    Estate Agents fees are, or at least have been higher than their UK cousins for several reasons.

    At the beginning of the boom, it was common for agents to charge between 5 & 10% for a resale property sale. But this was usually because it had to be split 3 ways.

    To begin, the agent would frequently receive clients via a UK agent, or another agent in Spain. It was considered the norm to split the fee with the referring agent.

    Secondly, the boom was so manic that an agent needed to recruit staff quickly to keep up with the pace, so, many sales staff were offered 1% commission.

    For example, a €200,000 property with 5% sales commission would earn the agent €10,000. Split with the referring agent that would become €5000. After paying the sales person €2000 (1%) the agent was left with €3000. about 2000 GBP in those days.

    The agent then had client costs such as airport collection, flight costs and hotel expenses, as most agents at the time would pay towards the client’s costs if they purchased.

    On top of these costs, the agent had to maintain a fleet of new vehicles, insured to take clients and spend up to 4 days feeding the clients.

    Then there was expensive glossy advertising to both attract buyers and sellers. Staff on contracts are expensive and so were the telephone costs to the UK.

    Also agents helped clients with all sorts of things such as furniture, schools, obtaining a car etc. This was very common in the boom years and staff were employed to do these tasks. Many agents charged for a service contract to cover some of these costs but as times became harder it was necessary to do these things for no charge to attract clients.

    It is also important to remember, new build commissions were between 10 & 20%. An agent would much prefer to sell new-build for commission reasons alone; there if it was necessary to supply a resale property then commissions were always going to be greater than UK agent’s commission.

    Very few UK agents even offer assisted viewings, they just make the appointment to view and that’s about all they do for 2%.

    UK agents also work in a much smaller geographical area. Whereas Spanish agents often cover hundreds of miles before they achieve a sale.

    At the end of the day, the fees will reflect the markets state, right now 2% commission will be gratefully received by most Spanish agents, but splitting it with a referring agent would make it almost not worth the bother.

  • #88982
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    @festival wrote:

    Maybe Chris of Viva will start his 2% offer again!

    OK Festival, you’ve hooked me here…

    Between September 06 and February 07 our company listed some 1,074 properties for sale at 2% (plus 1% vendor conveyancing) we also took an upfront fee which was able to be used as a credit against the vendor conveyance whether we sold the property or not.

    Festival by virtue of raising the issue, plus one or two others here on the forum, may be aware that it caused a certain degree of controversy at the time, not just within the Costa del Sol real estate market but it kind of lit fuses and set fireworks off all over the place.

    It was the best of times; it was the worst of times…

    And boy, right now if the truth be known, I would do it all over again in a heartbeat.

    Its quiet demise was entirely my fault. I never should have let it die away. I used to have cojones at one time, but the sheer scale – in fact tidal wave – of negative response from every quarter at that particular time, even from elements within the company, eventually beat me down.

    Yet in many ways it worked quite brilliantly, and in hindsight although I have my own reasons, I was a complete wuss for not sticking with it.

    @peter Good wrote:

    Estate Agents fees are, or at least have been higher than their UK cousins for several reasons…..

    Peter provides an excellent précis of why and how the high commissions came about and why the market operates as it does. I can’t fault that, only be impressed by his understanding of the situation

    Is it worth opening up that old debate once more though?

    Does it have to be the way it is?

    Does Sarnia have to resort to selling her property on her own? Or is she going to leave the coast much aggrieved and a buyer subsequently mortified that perhaps she will have had to pay 10% commission to sell her property?

    Can it be done for 0%?

    Can it be done for 3%?

    Is it at times acceptable to be realised at 5%?

    Or should I just keep my mouth shut on this one do you think?

  • #88983
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    I have been woeking on 2.5% since starting the auctions, but I really cannot see how a larger company could operate on that margin.

    Many clients expect to be collected from somewhere and taken to the property or properties which could easily mean a minimum 1.5 hours to a day depending on the portfolio. That adds cost, never mind needing a decent car! During summer and over the xmas the tourists have nothing better to do than request a day out at the expense of agents and many times we show properties yet get nothing unless there is a SUCCESSFUL sale!

    Estate agents before the boom only made a living, not fortunes, but it was the media and the buyers helping to hype up the prices.

    Whilst I do not in any way condone the huge commissions charged (and never been involved in them) I can understand making hay while the sun shines.

    Agents get a raw deal a lot of the time, mostly it is deserved, but there are good ones out there – most will not hear of them as they dont have to advertise extensively – refferals keep them in business!

    A one man band could survive on 2%, but I doubt if having staff etc would show a profit on a small margin.

    Peter does show why the fees have been higher, and of course in olden days agents were not accepted by spanish owners and so had to add on their fees if they introduced a buyer – in one way the fee was paid for by the buyer. Also as prices were so low, how could anyone survive on the sort of amount of sales we see nowadays on a percentage of 3 million pesetas? (studios and 1 beds beachside in those days)

    France by the way is 5%!

  • #88986
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    Anonymous
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    I am a prospective buyer (cash). Sorry old son the game is up because anyone with brains just goes direct.

    If you think some figure in excess of 1% is good value you had better start training for a proper job.

  • #88989
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Peters post is excellent and breaks everything down on how many have a slice of the cake though perhaps none making the sort of money that warrant such abuse on this forum.
    As far as I am concerned anyone that is single minded enough to think that the good Estate agents make fortunes then they have never run one themselves.
    They work bloody hard sometimes in almost impossible situations ,often abused and run ragged by time wasters.
    They have no idea how big overheads are and you have to build in the Joe public factor .Thats the big expence as anyone who is invloved would know.

    PD51
    Anyone with brains uses a good agent thats is very clued up on the area and can find you what you want where you want at a price that you could never negotiate.
    Maybe thousands of Euros for either way for the buyer or the seller.
    I would gladly pay the 3 % they charge if they made me 10 to 20%.
    That the trouble everyone thinks they can go direct and your the suckers the conmen are waithing for.Gosh PD51 you must play real hard to have cash. Let me guess 50,000 Euros 🙄
    Met SOOoooooo many like you and your the perfect case to go right on yer arse .
    Your the perfect client for the conman ? Why
    Because you think you know it all and you would be lead to the water by just agreeing with you.
    Saw 1 guy buy 10 properties on condition the agent could get a 10 % discount and the deal was done.( You know the work hard play hard type)
    However anyone could have had 15 % discount on buying one as the developer was chancing his arm over pricing the property.
    Yet another fence sitter who thinks you can run an estate agency on 1 %
    Wouldnt even come close to paying the advertisng budget.

    Just Frank 8)

  • #88990
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    A friend who wants to sell a property phoned a well known Inland estate agency in Andalucia very recently and asked them what commission they would charge. They said 10%. When asked what they would be doing for this 10% they answered “advertise it on the internet”… (this is the same agency that actually bags up to 50% commission but just lies about it…)

  • #88991
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Mr Mccarthy writes” Yet in many ways it worked quite brilliantly” – well, 2% was a good and workeable idea – what the outcry was about was that VIVA went on a frantic campaign to sign up desperate vendors willing to pay an upfront fee without any regard to the saleability/ asking price of the property. basically VIVA took on all the crap without challenging the silly vendors unrealistic asking prices!!. SO, no genuine estate agency skills employed to expand an attractive portfolio. Of course I’m not saying it was a scam, but it is certainly what VIVA were accused of.

    Also, very few vendors are going to ditch their own lawyer/conveyancing agent to let the selling agent handle the paperwork with their own in house/hand picked lawyer!!. come on now.

    Come back and do the 2% without the legal side and YOU could make a success of it !!

    also, stop bleating about the costs of selling a property; the sales people are mainly commission only !!

  • #88992
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    @inez wrote:

    Many clients expect to be collected from somewhere and taken to the property or properties which could easily mean a minimum 1.5 hours to a day depending on the portfolio.

    Hi Inez,

    Long time no speak (must be six years or more) I hope you and the family are all well.

    One of the issues is surely the portfolio.

    I presume that alongside all other agents you don’t just work simply with your own individual listings, but depending on the portfolio you will have to contact and tour properties that are listed with other agents, and quite a number of them.

    Or least if you do not, then 99% of other agents will, as very few agents will have a substantive enough portfolio to spend much more than a morning with a client otherwise.

    You work for 2.5% which I am assuming is your split of 5%.

    Which is fair enough, and I think there is a cogent argument in many respects for 5% as in France other European countries and indeed the USA.

    The fact is though, in these other countries agents also split their commissions, usually because the listing agent has an exclusive sales agreement with the vendor and generally for the 5% fee the agent will be expected to involve themselves in heavy promotion to the market in general and to a network of other agents of their clients listings.

    In these countries the key word is listings not sales, so the whole system is geared to providing an excellent service and widespread promotion for people listing.

    I think one of the problems here is access to the market for the private vendor, how does a vendor put his property on the market, and with whom?

    If a private vendor has a good property, at a good price in a good location how is he going to let the world know?

    Does an agent value more highly the seller or the buyer?

    If we had a property to sell today… Where or with whom would you or I put our property on the market right now?

  • #88993
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Chris McCarthy wrote:

    If we had a property to sell today… Where or with whom would you or I put our property on the market right now?

    I will be putting a property on the market this Spring and I intend to do my damndest to sell it privately before I resort to using an estate agent.

  • #88994
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    @PD51 wrote:

    I am a prospective buyer (cash). Sorry old son the game is up because anyone with brains just goes direct.

    If you think some figure in excess of 1% is good value you had better start training for a proper job.

    Hi PD51,

    I bought my last property direct, it just so happened I had got to know the vendor socially and we worked out a sale over about six months of chatting on and off about the prospect.

    It can be a really good way to buy, but it can also be by far the worst.

    Swings and roundabouts on the brains front I think, as there have been many people who have been sold direct, who lived to rue the day that they didn’t spend some time with an agent.

    If I were you I wouldn’t be hung up on 1% and I would mix and match your search with some agent input, why not? It is a free service and you sound like a person who doesn’t need too much advice, so go look at some properties it can only help no?.

    There are many benefits to an agent that can’t just be dismissed on commission rate alone.

    Inez has been on this forum and been an agent for years, I would say that she might have a better chance of you obtaining your goals and would be worth the money – that the vendor would pay her – so why not use her?

  • #88995
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    @hillybilly wrote:

    @Chris McCarthy wrote:
    If we had a property to sell today… Where or with whom would you or I put our property on the market right now?

    I will be putting a property on the market this Spring and I intend to do my damndest to sell it privately before I resort to using an estate agent.

    Amen to that Hillybilly…

    I did exactly the same myself last summer, invested in a mini road sign out front, put it out over the internet, put a private advert in a magazine, and when I had no viewings I put it up for 5% with I think 8 individual agents with no split from my own company.

    Phew, but it was hardwork!

    Didn’t seem to me like the best way it could have been done.

    How do you propose to find clients to buy your property direct? My apologies if that is too direct a question.

  • #88996
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    @Just Frank wrote:

    They work bloody hard sometimes in almost impossible situations ,often abused and run ragged by time wasters.
    Just Frank 8)

    Wow Frank,

    You are the guy who wears the tin hat on here right? I think I remember something about that in other threads.

    And I can see why! Nothing quite like telling it as it is hey?

    I think your point about suckers and conmen is also well made.

  • #88997
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    @UBEDA wrote:

    Mr Mccarthy writes” Yet in many ways it worked quite brilliantly” – well, 2% was a good and workeable idea – what the outcry was about was that VIVA went on a frantic campaign to sign up desperate vendors willing to pay an upfront fee without any regard to the saleability/ asking price of the property. basically VIVA took on all the crap without challenging the silly vendors unrealistic asking prices!!. SO, no genuine estate agency skills employed to expand an attractive portfolio. Of course I’m not saying it was a scam, but it is certainly what VIVA were accused of.

    OK UBEDA,

    I think you have some of this right and some of it wrong.

    We sold I believe 287 properties at a 2% commission rate, the vast majority of these were in the first several months of the campaign, and it was hot, why…?

    By virtue of the fact that those who listed at 2% with the real intention to sell their property at an attractive market price, managed to do exactly that.

    There were a number of vendors (there always are) who listed simply to get themselves onto our books and be highly promoted and yes were looking for an unreasonable sale price, but you know what?

    They could be seen as having paid for the promotion, that sold the genuinely valued and priced properties.

    What also worked well was the confidence of the buyer in knowing transparently out front what the commission was, and feeling that for the level of marketing activity on behalf of the vendor, and service level to themself the buyer, it was a fair price.

    You are right not to say it was a scam, everyone got what they paid for and it worked for a huge number of people.

    Not least the salespeople who saw thier sales conversion jump from a low point of 16% at that time to 36% overnight. Which had everthinng to do with people being able to deliver their property to market at a genuine price not a silly price, and buyers realising that also.

    Though I can certainly see how it might have been looked upon differently with the commotion and fuss that took place at the time leading to a lot confusion about its true workings or merits.

  • #88998
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    @UBEDA wrote:

    Also, very few vendors are going to ditch their own lawyer/conveyancing agent to let the selling agent handle the paperwork with their own in house/hand picked lawyer!!. come on now.

    Come back and do the 2% without the legal side and YOU could make a success of it !!

    You are absolutely correct. No arguments from me on that one. We didn’t get it bang on right, only partly right.

    Had we developed our promotion and campaign further, we would have moved to a straightforward 3% commission including a marketing contribution at the outset, which would have been refunded within the commission due.

    It was a step too far to do the legal side at that time. Although, I would still raise an eyebrow because people should know that no Spanish vendor would even dream of paying a lawyer 1-1.5% of the sale price of his property to do a very simple conveyance.

    A UK buyer certainly needs a lawyer, I don’t believe a vendor always does and certainly not at the fee charged.

    But, it still pertains that you are absolutely right.

    As to whether or not I would come back and do it?

    Well I very well might, I would need to know though, whether some vendors would be happy enough to epand their horizons and pay 5% if as a result of our heavy promotion another agent wanted to view their properties through ourselves on a split commission basis.

    That way instead of alienating the market or whatever number of agents are left (was incredibly 4,000 plus in 06) our vendors might then benefit from our presenting their properties to all the buyers in the marketplace, well except of course PDR 51 who along with a few others would only want to deal direct.

    Could even be, that for the right contribution, fee, or marketing expense whatever you want to call this, then I could even on occasion perhaps allow the vendor (perhaps Hillybily and her friend Inland) to advertise and promote their own property directly for 0% commission.

    Where there is a will there is a way no?

    And if the people on this forum can’t figure out what needs to be done and how, with all their knowledge, experience and views from both ends of the spectrum then I don’t know where change is going to come from.

  • #88999
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    Anonymous
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    @Chris McCarthy wrote:

    How do you propose to find clients to buy your property direct? My apologies if that is too direct a question.

    Not at all.
    For a start I’m hoping for a Spanish purchaser, after all, they form the bulk of property buyers in Spain, and therefore to market exclusively to expats seems to me to be seriously limiting your chances of selling.
    The property is in a large Spanish town, in a popular area (I’ve had people knocking on my door over the years asking if my house is for sale) and so with a for sale sign on the house (in time for the hundreds of people who pass every Semana Santa!), flyers in shops and businesses and word of mouth amongst Spanish friends and acquaintances I would hope to generate interest.
    I shall advertise it on internet sites (such as this one, of course but also the Spanish ones eg fotocasa, milanuncios etc) and maybe take out adverts in the printed press/magazines (both Spanish and expat).
    If no buyer is forthcoming I shall probably approach a Spanish corredor in the first instance, resorting to estate agents when I get desperate. Fortunately I’m not actually desperate!

  • #89000
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Chris
    When you have been an agent then trust me you are cannon fonder on here.
    Problem is that I have never heard anyone complain when I managed to get what I considered a better price that the vender was expecting at the price the buyer was more than happy to pay after doing their homework.
    On here your on the OTHER SIDE 🙄 if you try to even attempt to show that there are always 2 sides.
    I think the agents and particular the better ones are the amongst the most valued posters on here for every reason you can think of . Have save dozens of buyers from making big mistakes and yes at the cost of my pay day and a good hiding once. 🙁
    Still its a D.I.Y business for some and there always someone in the pub thats has a mate who just happens to have the deal of the decade. 😕
    What some on here dont realise is that some were or are damn good at what they do and do not party with conning either the buyer or the seller and sleep at night.
    Personally if I thought the vendor was iffy or wanted stupid money that would give me reason to feel un-ease then simply told them to find another agent. However I was the main U.K man as far as sales completions as the deals almost always stayed in bed. Oh and I always ensured that clients either choose their own solicitor or choose from a approved list.
    Yep the tin hat is well worn but as you know its a work hard play hard business. 😉

    Just Frank 8)

  • #89001
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    Inez
    Participant

    Hello Chris,

    Yes it has been a long time, I think nearer 9 years this july coming! The family are very well thank you, pretty much all grown up and leaving the nest.

    I dont go to other agents for property, if I have it, I have it, if not then if a matching one comes in, I will contact the client to see if they are interested. Luckily I get a lot of attention via the website and the media interst helps too, as does being established for several years. Not forgetting refferrals.

    The 2.5% is what I charge, inclusive in the price, and I mainly deal with a rather niche market, ie if the vendor doesnt want to accept my advice then in the main I dont take them on – Im not in the business of keeping loads of properties. I have cut the fee in order to close a deal in some cases, otherwise what I offer I feel is value for money – and no complaints thus far to suggest otherwise.

    Many vendors prefer to sell privately and some are successful, if you are living in another country though it can be a little difficult and end up costly with regards to advertising.

    Each to their own and I know of vendors/buyers who have paid a lot in commissions, but then again if they have to sell and there is a buyer there, they may not have the choice to say no.

  • #89005
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    @hillybilly wrote:

    @Chris McCarthy wrote:
    How do you propose to find clients to buy your property direct? My apologies if that is too direct a question.

    Not at all.
    For a start I’m hoping for a Spanish purchaser, after all, they form the bulk of property buyers in Spain, and therefore to market exclusively to expats seems to me to be seriously limiting your chances of selling.

    Sounds and looks like an excellent plan.

    I don’t think you are going to have a problem selling.

    I obviously don’t want to know the price of your property, but can I ask if will you be dropping this in percentage terms from what you might have thought of its value say a year or two ago?

    Or do you think the Spanish in the area will still buy at the prices you might have looked for if you considered selling in the past?

    One thing, that I think we all overlook is, that for any Brit selling right now looking to take their funds home and cnvert to sterling (I am not saying this is you Hillybilly) this in one way has to be the most amazing market and opportunity.

    We all know property has fallen by a substantial amount in the UK and the rest of Europe, but given the fall in sterling to almost parity with the Euro, for those who have or simply want to sell, there is an outstanding opportunity to get a genuine sterling return whilst giving a huge reduction in price to the one market that is absolutely there – the Spanish / Euro National market.

    Should a vendor be happy lets say with getting back in Sterling what he paid several years ago if he can? I think maybe yes.

    The best scenario in town, is I think an English vendor wanting to convert back to Sterling and a Spanish, Other Euro National or Resident buyer who thinks only in Euros, this is a marriage that will of course only last as long as the euro stays low.

    It is all about mindset.

    Am willing to bet you will do well here Hillybilly. Would love to know how long it takes to sell from when you first start. You certainly don’t need an agent yet and I wish you every success!

  • #89006
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Chris McCarthy wrote:

    I obviously don’t want to know the price of your property, but can I ask if will you be dropping this in percentage terms from what you might have thought of its value say a year or two ago?

    I’m in the fortunate position of having bought cheaply and having renovated slowly & sensibly over the years.

    Having seen what other property in this town is presently on the market for (100k+ and not selling) I think I know where to pitch my asking price in order to sell (sub 100k), which is no more or less than I would have anticipated last year (or the year before that even), because I’m not and have never been unrealistic or greedy about property values (I work in the building industry myself, tho not as an estate agent…)

    I’ve already bought another property so, as I said, I’m not desperate to sell. Maybe it will sell quickly-ish, maybe it won’t! The proceeds will go into another property in Spain anyway and so values are all relative…

  • #89008
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Calm down Frank or you will bust a blood vessel!!.

    London Times last week 35.000 Estate Agents redundunt. Why because they are the people who have wrecked the UK market for being greedy.

    Roll on European regulation and full disclosure.

    PS You are out by about 650,000 GBP on your 50k guess.

    Nuf!! said.

  • #89010
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    PD51
    You posted.
    Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:47 pm Post subject: Estate Agents.



    Calm down Frank or you will bust a blood vessel!!.

    London Times last week 35.000 Estate Agents redundunt. Why because they are the people who have wrecked the UK market for being greedy.

    Roll on European regulation and full disclosure.

    PS You are out by about 650,000 GBP on your 50k guess.
    _____________________________________________________

    MMmmm .So U,K estate agents are responsible for high prices in the U.K are they 😕
    They simply bring buyers and sellers of property together and the market determines price.
    Yep estate agents are going out of business every week.Tough times for many a business at the moment.
    So are your thinking of buying Spanish Euro priced property with sterling at the moment.
    The ones with that sort of cash NEVER tell you.

    Just Frank. 8)

  • #89011
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    @PD51 wrote:

    London Times last week 35.000 Estate Agents redundunt. Why because they are the people who have wrecked the UK market for being greedy.

    Roll on European regulation and full disclosure.

    PS You are out by about 650,000 GBP on your 50k guess.

    Nuf!! said.

    True PD5I, very true, the Telegraph had the same report saying this was out of 80,000 staff, though the number of agencies closed was I think at this time 1 in 4 or being 4,000 from 16,000 and this will possibly rise to 50% as the initial staff cutbacks turn to outright branch closures from now to mid year.

    Quite how the agents wrecked the market for being greedy at what I understand was a 1% commission, I don’t entirely understand though. Why was it all their fault?

    There is certainly no hope whatsoever for any Spanish agent if this is your view and you may very well be entirely correct!

    Out of curiosity to understand the market…

    What is your view about timeframe, will you buy soon or wait do you think?

    Will you use your GBP funds or rather take as much mortgage as you can in euros and wait for movement in sterling to the euro again?

    Hillybilly seems to me to have an excellent perspective with regarding to selling her property direct. As a buyer looking to go direct to the seller, how will you go about that?

    If I hazarded a guess and said:

    You probably know well the area and perhaps even the urbanisation you wish to buy on, and perhaps have already had contact either through friends or experience of staying there before… would I be right or miles out?

  • #89012
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    @hillybilly wrote:

    I’ve already bought another property so, as I said, I’m not desperate to sell. Maybe it will sell quickly-ish, maybe it won’t! The proceeds will go into another property in Spain anyway and so values are all relative…

    I am glad to hear it Hillybilly,

    Calm, rational, mid to long term view and happy to remain in Spain.

    That’s good news. Really good news.

    Others are in an entirely different boat of course, but it doesn’t mean that they can’t work out a calm, rational view also, and create a mindset or scenario that works for them.

    I think Estate Agents used to be able to help in that, or perhaps should they now adapt to the circumstances that are current, for instance, would I be better off creating in future a vehicle that meets both your objectives as a seller direct and those of PD51 as a buyer direct?

  • #89014
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    PD51 wrote

    ”London Times last week 35.000 Estate Agents redundunt. Why because they are the people who have wrecked the UK market for being greedy.

    ……..so true. I know not all are bad, and some decent one’s post here, but so many were not just happy to make a good living but were downright bloody greedy, and advised sellers it was ok to be the same by inflating prices and screwing up the market at the same time by pricing many out of it. Why are they some of the most unliked people?, greed, lies, abuse of trust to name a few of their ugly traits. Not hard is it? Having said that though, in my experience, UK agents selling UK houses are angels compared with UK agents selling Spanish property. Mainly down to regulation though i guess.

  • #89017
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Inez
    “The 2.5% is what I charge, inclusive in the price, and I mainly deal with a rather niche market, ie if the vendor doesnt want to accept my advice then in the main I dont take them on – Im not in the business of keeping loads of properties. I have cut the fee in order to close a deal in some cases, otherwise what I offer I feel is value for money – and no complaints thus far to suggest otherwise.”

    I, back all the above that Inez posted & have recommended her to many, not heard one comment of dissatisfaction from them. They still buy me a drink, so thank Inez.

  • #89019
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Posted
    Having said that though, in my experience, UK agents selling UK houses are angels compared with UK agents selling Spanish property. Mainly down to regulation though i guess.

    A vast amount of sales came through U.K Estate high street names,lots of indepentents,regulated I.F.As and financial institutions.
    Most E.As didnt realise that they were being conned alongside everyone else
    An estate agent in the U.K often takes property on at prices that the vendor demands. FACT the U.K seller almost always thinks their property is worth more than is.
    All good agents try to get the best price for their clients and now their being accused of being greedy. 😕
    How estate agents are somehow responsible for over valuing property on a commision only basis is beyond me.
    All they would do is make it impossible to sell and waste their time and expence on a no goer.
    All good agents would walk away from a vendor that wanted stupid money or not listen to their advice.
    If anything the estate agent would want it under valued so as to get a quick sale.
    They have expensive offices and very costly advertising and overheads.
    Say they get £5,000 for selling you home they just may net 1% and it should be taken into account that the vendor or buyer can pull out minutes before exchange and who looses.
    How many agents have had the situation that they carry out a sale and then the vendor tries to screw them without a moments thought.
    Unless you have had an E.A business or worked within the industry then like me I to thought they were all greedy sods that do nothing for their money.
    Would I do it again? Deal with the public that lie,cheat,botch their over priced properties to dump on some poor first time buyer without a moments thought that they could be ruining lives.
    They then expect the agent to lie on their behalf. NO.WAY 👿
    Can fully see where those that hate E.As are coming from but the fact is they are way off the mark as in most cases they work damned hard for their money.
    Anyone can sell a property and thats very different to being a reputable estate agent which a suprising amount are or they dont stay in business.

    Just Frank 8)

  • #89020
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    ………oh that wicked public, cheating and lieing, and treating those poor estate agents so badly. All estate agents are trying to do, is make an honest living while having the best interest of buyers and sellers in mind. What was i thinking?

    Joking apart, they were just one element in the gravy train, (think lenders) of a disaster waiting to happen.

  • #89021
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The one thing I know for fact is that most agents will initially inflate the house price so the owner then thinks he will get more from that agent than another. (Now its on his books)Then 2 months later its sold for the right price. ( the right price is what you can get for it at that time) Dont now come back to me whinging that, thats not correct in most cases, as I’ve been in the house selling game for over 45 years. This has been fact for many years, so anybody against this is most probably an agent himself, still trying to make us think hes 100% honest. I have seen to many incidents where agents are involved which would make the average punters hair fall out.

  • #89022
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    alanrthornton

    that sounds closer to the truth!

  • #89025
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    @alanrthornton wrote:

    The one thing I know for fact is that most agents will initially inflate the house price so the owner then thinks he will get more from that agent than another. (Now its on his books)

    Spot on Alan, and so is Frank and there is the rub.

    In the UK the agent has to have you on his books, because it is always an exclusive contract for a period, the agent wants you signed up and listed today, so he competes with other agents to get your listing.

    The way to do this is: To promise if you list with me I will get you X.

    In Spain or at least the CDS however, the situation is entirely different, a vendor will list with as many agents as he likes and offer exclusivity to no one.

    And Frank is certainly right here, he absolutely doesn’t want you to overvalue your property, he wants it at the price at which you want to receive after expenses, he wants to know your required net, it is of no benefit to price the thing too high.

    Not just in the amount of commission therefore is there a fundamental difference between here and there.

    There is no tangible benefit for a higher valuation on the CDS in fact the reverse is true. This is why I don’t understand why agents are at fault for higher prices.

    I have sympathy for Frank’s argument that it is more likely to be the sellers who were greedy, and I think these days everyone has a good idea what price they want for their property before the agent walks in through the door.

    And here we might find that Estate Agents have therefore done the job of talking many people down from their expectations and could be responsible for things not getting entirely out of hand.

    As to the lying, cheating and various other things that Goodstich alludes to that an agent may get up to, well I can’t really argue with him either, no one can, agents may have themselves been duped in some areas of recent concern or controversy – but as an industry we certainly deserve a good deal, in fact perhaps all of the bricks thrown our way I have to say.

    But that is why you now have public forums, that is why transparent accountability will ultimately be key to credibility and trust.

    I am here out of genuine interest in the market, and have always operated on the basis of “If you never tell a lie, you will never have to remember what it was you said”.

    I don’t mind being accountable and or answering for my sins as an agent.

    Who needs regulation when you have the internet and its open forums one could argue.

  • #89026
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Alan
    No winging. As you say serveral times the word “most.”
    Nah. I used to get the vendors to tell my what valuations they had.
    You know £295.995 and 50 p 😕
    Before I had even visited I ensured I had done my homework and show them where I had arrived at the valuation.
    Always found is that if you treat people with respect I didnt need the inflated price trick to get them on the books.
    Thats not a true estate agent , thats just a lister.
    There is always the higher,medium and lower price and I worked within that.
    I would of course go to what the top end was of a true valuation to attempt to get the best price.( thats what I was paid for)
    Medium if they were in no great rush and of course the lower if an urgent sale was required i.e they had seen their next property of their dreams at the right price.
    Anything higher than that then they went elswhere as I wasnt prepared to waste my money and have them winging a couple of weeks later.
    They normally came back when the property was sticking as they were very unhappy that their property was still on the market after 12 months or the offer was well below the valuation I had given them in the first place.
    Yep Totally agree with the comments regarding some so called agents and in particular in Spain ( been there seen it) as like some solicitors they are simply scum.
    Not interested if you think I am in the game trying to look 100% honest as I also realised thats the sort of vendictive way the mind has to look at to get by in that trade at times.
    Another reason I got out. 👿
    45 Years 😯 You need a bloody medal.
    As always there are good and bad in most things in life.I just feel at times the Estate Agent gets more than his fair share of the crap as there are indeed some very good ones.

    Regards
    Just Dan 8)

  • #89354
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Interesting thread! I have never used an estate agent to buy property in Spain. I did know the area and speak Spanish, maybe different for someone from the UK and new to the market. I found that most sellers not using an agent were sometimes asking more than a similar property with an agent. Sellers can be just as “greedy” as an agent.

    What I have never been able to do is sell a property privately 🙁 even in the boom years. I once paid 10% commission to an agent in Banus, and, was happy to do so as they sold it quickly and for a top price. Sold two through VIVA and paid around 7% and was content with that too. Despite whinges about commission charges I think sellers would be happy to pay really high charges just to shift the property at the present time.

    To sell privately one is at the mercy of dodgy websites, some free but others charge around £50 to £99 just to advertise. The most interest you will get is from scammers who claim to want to buy the property without seeing it!

    Personally, I do not know of any property selling in my area, it is completely dead. Think I read that investment into Spain last year fell by 91% which I think says it all.

  • #89554
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Interesting thread! I have never used an estate agent to buy property in Spain. I did know the area and speak Spanish, maybe different for someone from the UK and new to the market. I found that most sellers not using an agent were sometimes asking more than a similar property with an agent. Sellers can be just as “greedy” as an agent.

    What I have never been able to do is sell a property privately 🙁 even in the boom years. I once paid 10% commission to an agent in Banus, and, was happy to do so as they sold it quickly and for a top price. Sold two through VIVA and paid around 7% and was content with that too. Despite whinges about commission charges I think sellers would be happy to pay really high charges just to shift the property at the present time.

    To sell privately one is at the mercy of dodgy websites, some free but others charge around £50 to £99 just to advertise. The most interest you will get is from scammers who claim to want to buy the property without seeing it!

    Personally, I do not know of any property selling in my area, it is completely dead. Think I read that investment into Spain last year fell by 91% which I think says it all.

  • #89364
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    At the end of last week I had a vendor who offered me a 50/50 split if I was able to sell his finca before the end of February.

    He badly needs some cash out of his property or he will go under with his business. But here is the ridiculous bit, not wanting to earn 50% for even a difficult property to sell, I suggested he dropped his price by 50% which would greatly increase his chances of a sale, I aked €5000 should I find a buyer. He said no ❓

    As I could not get his agreeance, the thought crossed my mind to just sell it at half price and not tell him I hadn’t taken the 50% comission, but after thinking about what could go wrong I declined the instruction.

    I m still trying to understand his logic 😕

  • #89564
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    At the end of last week I had a vendor who offered me a 50/50 split if I was able to sell his finca before the end of February.

    He badly needs some cash out of his property or he will go under with his business. But here is the ridiculous bit, not wanting to earn 50% for even a difficult property to sell, I suggested he dropped his price by 50% which would greatly increase his chances of a sale, I aked €5000 should I find a buyer. He said no ❓

    As I could not get his agreeance, the thought crossed my mind to just sell it at half price and not tell him I hadn’t taken the 50% comission, but after thinking about what could go wrong I declined the instruction.

    I m still trying to understand his logic 😕

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