do these figures add up?

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This topic contains 26 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 8 years, 6 months ago.

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  • #54014
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
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    am i wrong in assuming that the pound is down by at least 20% on the euro?

    if this is the case, then any seller wishing to come back to the UK could afford to sell their property for 20% less than they bought it for and still break even when converting back to sterling (give or take when you take transfer fees into account)

    so why are so many sellers so reluctant to budge on their inflated price??

    GREED methinks.

  • #83390
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Most people I know who have a property for sale haven’t even had a viewing let alone an offer! Some people may not be going back to the UK and even if they were anything could happen to the currency before accepting an offer and completion. The pound could have risen 20% (or more). Would you be willing to knock 20% off your UK home?

  • #83391
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
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    Perhaps people are not knocking loads of money off due to the fact that when they bought a property they had to pay iva (tax) @ 7% and other legal fees,and then further fees when selling the property including agents fees, also a lot of people are leaving furniture. Not much chance of paying capital gains tax as there will be no profit. The only people who make money on property in spain is the spanish government, and agents if they can find a buyer.

  • #83393
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
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    Well, I think that chilly is onto something here. It’s greed I reckon, I recently made a low offer on a house that I know the seller is taking the cash back to the UK. He refused our offer, but in real terms it was a better price than he would have got 18 months ago. Just stupid in my opinion, as things aren’t going to get better for a long time, and the house is just empty (it has been for years).

    As the only people making money on property in Spain, well some sellers I know have done very well. Last year houses here were selling for circa 200K, the new price around 6 years ago was 70K. Agents fees, and taxes wont eat all that growth!

  • #83394
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    Anonymous
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    You’re logic is correct but who’s going to take a 20% reduction when prices might drop 30 – 40%? And don’t forget the buy / sell spread on exchange rates reduces your gains further.

    This is melt-down 😥 (until the next upturn in the cycle) 😀

  • #83396
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
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    @El anciano wrote:

    Well, I think that chilly is onto something here. It’s greed I reckon, I recently made a low offer on a house that I know the seller is taking the cash back to the UK. He refused our offer, but in real terms it was a better price than he would have got 18 months ago. Just stupid in my opinion, as things aren’t going to get better for a long time, and the house is just empty (it has been for years).

    As the only people making money on property in Spain, well some sellers I know have done very well. Last year houses here were selling for circa 200K, the new price around 6 years ago was 70K. Agents fees, and taxes wont eat all that growth!

    Last year was last year its been and gone, we are now in this year and and property is not selling like last year ,and not everybody bought 6 years ago like you said some people bought last year.its not all down to greed its trying to get your money back if you can.

  • #83398
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    Anonymous
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    @lindmark wrote:

    Last year was last year its been and gone, we are now in this year and and property is not selling like last year ,and not everybody bought 6 years ago like you said some people bought last year.its not all down to greed its trying to get your money back if you can.

    Well, I didn’t say that everyone bought 6 years ago, just that those that did have done very nicely. But thanks for reminding me about when last year was 🙄

    I do accept that it’s not all down to greed, but I have 1st hand experience that it is indeed greed in some cases. For those who bought recently, they have my sympathy and I wish them the best of luck in recouping as much as they can.

    But, there are indications that the European economy maybe heading for trouble. Who knows where Forex is going, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Euro soften dramatically. Sellers would be wise IMHO to take this strongly into consideration.

  • #83404
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
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    If the Spanish Govt is commited to giving the sector a real boost, why not scrap or lower the IVA!
    They make enough in fees.

    we don t pay this ridiculous amount in the Uk, i know Spain isn t Britain but it feels like they want property purchasers to bring Spain into the 21st century with these ridiculous taxes.

    Thirty years ago Spain was virtually a third world country where you could nt drink the water, now it is (or was) a thriving economy with an infrastructure that in many ways surpassed our own, How was that paid for???

  • #83407
    Profile photo of rt21
    rt21
    Participant

    Although I believe the scrapping of the IVA would be a step in the right direction, particularly if introduced with a package of other measures, I don’t think it in itself would really have that much impact. The Spanish property market is too tainted at the moment and there are other external factors that are weighing in against any pick up in the spanish property market.

    I was quite intrigued with your last paragraph about Spain in many ways having a better infrastructure than the UK. I am not saying you are wrong but I was struggling to think of many off the top of my head.

  • #83408
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    Anonymous
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    My experience is the same as Chilly. Just returned from Fuerteventura for the 4th time in 18 months. Prices (and the properties) are the same as this time last year. Minimal willingness to negotiate by private and developers, most refuse point blank. Perhaps the Canary’s are imune from mainland problems. Decided to leave it ….. for now.

  • #83409
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    If you were selling your house in the Uk to move to Spain would you sell it for 20% or so less on the basis that you will be paying 20% less in Spain. I think the answer will be NO. So why call people here greedy! They are doing what they do anywhere, trying to get the best price. If they aren’t desperate they won’t sell for less, no matter what you read in the newspapers.

    How do you know the seller hasn’t already reduced (unless you are an expert on property values in Spain)

  • #83413
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    Anonymous
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    Katy, I understand your point, and I agree that you wouldn’t sell your UK house for less because prices are (supposedly) down in Spain.

    But, you would sell your UK house for less because the market has fallen, and the true market value in the UK is lower now. My own house sale in the UK completed recently, and we had to accept the reality that the market has changed. I am not alone in this, I have two friends who have also had to accept that the UK market has fallen.

    Ultimately the market will set the level, so time will tell. Maybe prices will hold up here, maybe not. But, some are being totally unrealistic and/or greedy in my opinion. Others have no choice but to hold out for a really strong price, and I wish those people well.

  • #83414
    Profile photo of rt21
    rt21
    Participant

    I think at the end of the day buyers want to buy property at the lowest price that they can get it at and sellers want to sell their property at the best possible price. They both have something in common and that is to achieve the best deal for themselves. You may argue that some sellers are being unrealistic in their expectations but the term greedy is not a term that I would use to describe their actions.

  • #83415
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    Anonymous
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    rt21 I think that you are right, and I was perhaps a bit harsh with my 1st post supporting the greed motive. 😳

    Having said, looking at some of the asking prices here it still makes me wonder 🙂

  • #83416
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    Anonymous
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    @chilly wrote:

    so why are so many sellers so reluctant to budge on their inflated price?? GREED methinks.

    Key word in that statement is ‘inflated’.

    We’ve all come across those people that list their property at a ridiculously inflated price in order to ‘test the water’, and ever hopeful that someone will chance along and meet their asking price.

    I’d suggest the people who knowingly desire more money than the market value for their property, and who are rigid with that inflated price, ARE being greedy.

    Alternatively, a seller who has his property listed at a fair market price, and chooses not to budge, is not being greedy. He knows the vultures are circling.

  • #83422
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    “Alternatively, a seller who has his property listed at a fair market price, and chooses not to budge, is not being greedy. He knows the vultures are circling.”

    A fair market price one year from now could be 50% of the fair market price of today.

    About vultures, only knife catchers would buy in the current market. Some areas might become ghettos , other areas might be complletely abandoned. There is no hurry to buy.

  • #83423
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    Anonymous
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    I don’t know about knife catchers or vultures, but I am looking to buy. I just try to factor in the risk by adjusting the price accordingly.

    I just have to find a seller who agrees 😆

  • #83424
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
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    @chilly wrote:

    am i wrong in assuming that the pound is down by at least 20% on the euro?

    if this is the case, then any seller wishing to come back to the UK could afford to sell their property for 20% less than they bought it for and still break even when converting back to sterling (give or take when you take transfer fees into account)

    so why are so many sellers so reluctant to budge on their inflated price??

    GREED methinks.

    well yes it is greed. we all want as much as possible for our properties.
    For the brits moving back to the britain they have got the option of selling cheaper than a year ago. May 2007 1€ = 0.66 GBP, this may it was 1€ = 0.79 GBP.
    If a brits has had the property on the market for a year they do have the option of dropping their asking price, or at least be more open to offers.
    We’ve used this tactic a few times quite successfully.

    Just to generalise a bit here. Most brits I’ve spoke to about this, had not even thought about taking advantage of the exchange rates. So i’ll blame the agencies for not informing their clients about it.

  • #83426
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Bit of a gamble for the seller though. Accept an offer 1st June based on 79pence to euro..completion 1st July it could be back to 66 pence!

  • #83427
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “I don’t know about knife catchers or vultures, but I am looking to buy. I just try to factor in the risk by adjusting the price accordingly.”

    If you need to buy now, know exactly where you want to buy and do not care about further price oscilations, make offers and somebody might agree with your offer.

    Sellers ask the prices they want and buyers offer the prices they can afford.

  • #83428
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    Bit of a gamble for the seller though. Accept an offer 1st June based on 79pence to euro..completion 1st July it could be back to 66 pence!

    Yes it is.
    But as always its a decision for the vendor to make. the exchage rate has varied between .78 & .80 for the last 3 months or so.

    In one case we fixed the price in pounds, as the vendor needed to make sure he received a fixed amount, and the buyer being british did’nt mind.

    We even had a client that made a loss in € but a profit in GBP

  • #83435
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    It’s still greedy agents too! I just put an offer in and got some “cock and bull” story about the seller.

    Completely untrue IMHO. I reckon it was just the agent trying to get a big commission, I’m sure he didn’t even put our offer forward. 🙄

    Oh well, plenty more to look at 😆

  • #83443
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Im selling 2 bed apt on la torre (polaris world) front line golf @ 145.000 euro it the cheapest on the resort, and evan at this price people are still tryig to knock you down 10k, and also want you give them fully furnished (another 10k) i would say alot off these so called buyers are the vultures not the sellers The reason i will not sell it furnished is because im buying a villa on the same resort unlike other sellers wno just want out. I had three lots off people round this weekend and two off them but silly offers in.

  • #83444
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    If you are going to go in with an offer you have to do your research, How long has the property been on sale, do they really need to sell etc. The property may have already been realistically priced.

    A friend was selling his parents villa as his Father had died, he didn’t want to prolong the hassle so he advertised the villa at a low price. He had some viewings and they made silly offers. Smart Alecs he called them, quoting what they had read in the British rags. He decided to rent the place long term as he was so annoyed by the attitude of buyers.

    There will be bargains but finding them is not easy and the information is not in the UK press!

  • #83446
    Profile photo of rt21
    rt21
    Participant

    I think your post Katy just illustrates that buyers as well as sellers are trying to maximise their positions. Which I think is something you would come to expect in uncertain times. However, as time moves on I think prices will have to fall because the market is not in equilibrium and there is a serious imbalance between supply and demand, which can only be bridged by such a fall.

  • #83447
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @rt21 wrote:

    I think prices will have to fall because the market is not in equilibrium and there is a serious imbalance between supply and demand, which can only be bridged by such a fall.

    Depends – I think the biggest problem will still be the 2 bed / 2 bath 80-100 metre boxes. A decent property in a decent position will adjust in price but not fall like a lead brick. There are not that many of the better ones for sale and on the whole those better ones are owned by people who are not desperate to offload, whereas the owners of the cheaper ones are – reasons include oversupply/unsold on development, poor properties generally, too much debt and unable to service, a “flip” investment that has not happened.

  • #83510
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    Anonymous
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    sorry ive not responded to this, my own, post. but i m coming over to Spain on thursday (for a holiday) and had a lot to do.

    I must compliment all of you who have answered, intelligently, and kept the post ” on topic” Hey Mark, is this a record lol

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