Community charge benchmarking

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This topic contains 15 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 8 years, 7 months ago.

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  • #53876
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Someone has asked me about community charges. It would be very useful for all of us to know what others are paying in community charges, so you can benchmark your own charges.

    So if you want to help, please post on this thread the following:

    – Roughly how much you are paying in community charges per year (or quarter)
    – Characteristics of your community: How many properties, type of communal facilities, private security, etc
    – Where you are, i.e. Marbella, Javea, etc.
    – Any other pertinent info related to your community charges.

    Thanks

    Mark

  • #81490
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Good idea. Heard of many people complaining of large increases recently.

    Mine:

    Community Fees app. 380 euros paid 6 monthly
    Facilities: None, except a few small roadside gardens and on roundabouts
    (just private villas). Private security patrol during the night. Street cleaning.
    Situation: Marbella rural suburb.

    Do think it is a rip off (although the community is well-run) Have to pay for street lighting and some sewerage charge, even though we also pay substantial IBI to marbella town hall!

  • #81493
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Mark: you have touched on my favourite subject.

    How long is the piece of string comes to mind as you can imagine. The issue is not the bench mark, Its how these figures are achieved. How many holes are there in the budget, how much has been recovered from the developer for empty properties and common area which the developer has been using while other phases are being built. The attitudes of the expat who for reasons of ignorance, language and easy life preferring to throw money at the problem.

    – Roughly how much you are paying in community charges per year (or quarter)

    I do not know. As the budget does not tell me the amount due in respect of my flat as there is no correlation provided. I get asked for amounts and when asked for statement of account or the date the balance is being demanded is not provided until next time a fresh amount is claimed.

    Evan, the president has asked for the information to be provided but the Administrator ignores it. As you may know that the owner cannot vote if there are charges outstanding at the AGM

    – Characteristics of your community: How many properties, type of communal facilities, private security, etc

    Around 90, in my phase and and about the same in the 5 phases. Portero, swimming pool per phase.

    – Where you are, i.e. Marbella, Javea, etc.
    Marbella.
    – Any other pertinent info related to your community charges.

    Total disdain for the owners and the law until where it suits the Administrator. The cost of resolving these issues are excessive and any issue that needs to be challenged has to be done in a certain time e.g. three months. The Administrator’s make sure that the minutes of the meetings are sent after the time period has lapsed.

    Finally, Mark you can do a Phd on the subject and I can provide with all the material that you need. This subject has been lost not only on the forum but in Spain, as the bigger issues of scandals, etc have taken precedence.

    Thanks

    Mark

  • #81519
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Although this thread may make me feel unwell here goes

    Annual fees 3600 euros
    Situation east of Estepona
    96 apartments in a gated community with 24hour security
    outdoor pool and indoor heated pool small gym and jacuzzi
    Communal gardens
    Lifts
    Underground garage.

    Just got new president who is trying to reduce costs. 😯

  • #81523
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    4 bed townhouse on a private urb behind Banus – Nueva Andalucia. Large pool, small pool. 128 houses mainly semi detached, basement for parking and private driveway. Community restaurant centre thing which is permenantly closed – residents want to use it, developer cant decide what to do with it. Same with a small local!

    Monthly fees 165 euros, last ibi was 416, basura 36 (I think). Recently repainted all the props which cost an extra 1500 euros 🙁

  • #81530
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    21€ per month (and some complain that this is too high 🙄 ).

    2 bed, semi attached bungalow with its own drive. In Murcía, on an Urb of approx 800.

    Tennis courts, gardens, street cleaning, private security, rubbish collection, Urb. lighting, etc.

    IBI just over 200€ a year.

    There are moves to try to get the local Town Hall to adopt the Urb, which should reduce the 21€ 😉

  • #81538
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Mollina nr Antequera

    Community fees – 40 euros monthly

    18 Townhouses

    Large communal gardens and pool

  • #81539
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    It will be difficult to judge who is getting value for money unless the place is known to you. eg. when we had a townhouse there were only 6 houses sharing the pool and a large garden. In some apartments there may be about 25 sharing a very small pool and garden.

  • #81540
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    It was actually me who contacted Mark to raise this issue. I really think this is a very important Topic that’s rarely dealt with in enough depth?

    I was looking for members who had experience of putting Tender documents together? I’ve been working on a spreadsheet model as our First Years Community costs are up for review at the end of this month!
    We are actually paying on average €3600 a year for a Hill Top development with just 54 2 bed/2bath apartments in 7 blocks!
    Of course the Developer had appointed the Administrators but we are ready to take control the Developments responsibilities by obtaining quotes and then “Instructing” the administrators to follow our our instructions.
    Many of our Owners are Investors many of whom never really intended to complete and their main concern is to reduce overheads and find Long Term Tenants! Not that easy in the current market I think?
    Personally I feel that we need to strike a balance that still offers, a quality level of maintenance but at fair value too!

    It would be great to hear from experienced administrators willing to share their experiences

  • #81541
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    blackberryway: Its very difficult to have a half efficient/competent Administrator. Most of them are lawyers and become a Administrators. I am sure that you will agree that enough is said on the forum on the lawyers.

    I, have Spanish friends who in live in flats in places like Madrid, Barcelona, Seville etc. The owners manage it themselves, the presidency is rotated. Yes the Spanish can be organised if they want to. I, find this much cost effective/efficient way of managing the block. As appose to chasing managing agents who are either having siesta or a fiesta or have a typical Spanish practise of always being in a meeting and not replying to e.mails, letters. telephone calls and if you can pin them down the honest and up front answer will never be given and nothing ever in writing.

    I, suggest you get in touch with the “colegio de Administador & fincas ” I understand that each region has its own, please google it. I would also speak to them take a few names of the administrator and check out or speak to the owners of the developer as to kind/value they are providing.

    You should also check out http://www.c-euro.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=92&Itemid=31.

  • #81542
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    I could PM you the name and contact for our Administrator if you are interested. Our community have used the company all the time and the majority of owners are spanish. Most are professionals themselves so I think they are a canny lot.

    What does push up community fees are staff social security costs and legal fees etc.

  • #81544
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Katy,
    Are you saying that your Administrators are good. You & others are mostly satisfied ? if the answer is yes, can you please pm me their address. Thanks in advance.

  • #81553
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Mark,

    I don’t think you can benchmark fees; you have to compare oranges to oranges and lemons to lemons (no pun intended).

    Most communities are badly run by reluctant presidents and inept and sometimes dishonest administrators. The reluctant presidents are normally in awe of the bully administrator who is not transparent and runs communities like their own little businesses with funds disappearing into thin air.

    The fact is that a community needs to be run like a business with a strong president, vice president/ treasurer with an administrator SERVING the community not dictating to the owners. All payments/ transfers should be co signed by a member of the board in conjunction with the administrator and accounts should be scrutinised monthly.

    It’s a subject that we can spend years discussing but it’s essential to get a community running efficiently spending the funds wisely.

    If you have a dictator administrator get rid of them (at next AGM) and appoint new one with a termination contract of three months notice – not a year as is common in most communities.

    The following web site provides an English translation of the horizontal property act which should be inwardly digested by Presidents and their boards…. http://www.cafmalaga.com

    ALso, don’t forget runaway fees means your flat/ house eventually becomes less attractive to buyers when you decide to sell!!

  • #81554
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    http://www.cafmalaga.com

    click on enlaces, then legislación and choose language

  • #81556
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Alhaurin Golf in Attalaya 1.

    Approx 130-140 euros per month depending on size, gives a pool, cleaning of corridors, basic gardening. Doesn’t sort out smelly drains and noise though!

    Not that good value considering awful build quality by Ferrovial!

  • #81822
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Ciudad Quesada, Alicante

    2 Bed apartment, 2 Pools, communal gardens with lawns. 36 Apartments in total in 3 blocks. Half with private gardens and the other half with roof solariums. Blocks painted every 5 years. Administrators are Mediterraneo, who are part of Cam Bank.

    Community Charge – 520e year
    IBI – 180e year
    Refuse – 40e Year

    Mediterraneo have been generally good for the last 14 years and the overall charges have gone up at a reasonable rate. I think this is because most of the owners do take an active role n the community and the AGM is very well attended.

    Bernard

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