Chinese investors buying property in Spain

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This topic contains 37 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Chopera Chopera 4 years ago.

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  • #57124
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    This video report at Bloomberg Businessweek yesterday:
    http://www.businessweek.com/videos/2012-10-28/chinese-snap-up-spanish-property-bargains#r=lr-fst

    I also hear from agents and developers that they are seeing more Chinese enquiries.

  • #113153
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    I suppose in theory the Chinese have a big enough population (and more) to mop up all the unsold real estate in Spain, guestimated at up to 2 million homes for sale 😆

    Will Spain then adopt the Chinese currency, the Renminbi? Cities renamed Madridhai, Barcelonajing 😆

  • #113154
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    To start with this forum should now have a Mandrin section .

  • #113155
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Chinese are buying up everything and anything worldwide, not just Spain so nothing new there, trouble is Tapas will go and be replaced by Kung Po chicken 😆

  • #113156
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    China is heading for a crash because it has the mother of all economic booms with annual growth rates of 10% which was always unsustainable. The Chinese economy is half the size of the US economy and any notion that China will overtake the US and become the nation that dominates the 21st Century has almost certainly been dashed by the bubbles in its economy and housing markets. Back in the 1980’s it was thought that Japan will overtake the US but Japan had a massive house price bubble and stockmarket bubble which popped and left Japan devastated with a twenty year long period of deflation and economic stagnation. It is unlikely that China will go the same way as Japan but you can already see the slowdown in the Chinese economy and this will in turn cause a fall in commodity prices like copper, aluminium, iron ore and other raw materials.

    The Chinese economy is already slowing down quite dramatically because its dominate trading partner is the european union and with problems in the euro-zone countries and economic problems in the US means less demand for Chinese goods which will result in a fall in the standard of living of the Chinese population and possible economic collapse. This means that there will be less demand for overseas property from the Chinese as the Chinese retrench and curtail their spending in the face of a slowing economy.

    Now it is said that it is the Chinese who are buying property, but before that it was the Swedes who were buying and before that it was the Russians and before that it was the Norwegians. It is always the same story but using different nationalities in order to spread rumours about a recovery in the decrepit Spanish property market but what is certain is that Spanish property prices are going down for the next five years.

    A reason why agents are getting more buying enquiries from the Chinese is because the Chinese property bubble is set to burst as their economy collapses in the face of the global economic slowdown. Property prices in Hong Kong are amongst the highest in the World and prices have risen sharply in places like Shanghai but there are already ghost developments in China where there was over-development but there is falling demand for retail and residential developments and some well-to-do Chinese are trying to get out of their property bubble before it bursts.

    Jim Chanos Sees `Monumental’ Property Bubble in China

    China about to collapse

    China is the biggest Bubble in History

    Reasons why China will Collapse

  • #113157
    Profile photo of GarySFBCN
    GarySFBCN
    Participant

    Bad for unemployment right now, but good for badly-needed diversity.

  • #113160
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I see chinese people all over Spain so they have probably been buying for a long time. Hard working immigrants should always be welcomed.

  • #113161
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    In addition they behave in a impecable manner no loutish behaviour or falling drunk, jumping from balconies or displaying their back side no matter how unattractive. The only issue I have is they lack sense of humour and in Spain you need this in abundance.

  • #113162
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    I’m fascinated by the Chinese in Spain – here you have people who are culturally geared towards doing business and making a go of it in a country that is culturally geared towards destroying any business that isn’t “connected” to the government. It seems they’ll try some business idea and, if it doesn’t work, they’ll try something else. But they’ll keep having a go until they get it right.

  • #113164
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Chinese people are diehard business people from birth. Imagine surviving in such a country. The thing is that it’s very easy for them to make it by in our “world” and to them it’s not hard working 14 hours a day. I have many friends that do business at the lower levels in Spain and they say that as soon as the chinese show up they might as well close shop because they aren’t willing to work as hard.

  • #113166
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The operative words is not working hard by the spaniards. Just to work is asking too much of them. Every time I am in Spain & if I need to do a few things. I will be lucky to acheive half of them. The main reason the shops not open on time, if they do open on time they are out of stock, In offices/Banks the person is not at their desk, wong office, the office has closed & moved to next village/city, shops close early they always open late & close early, some paper or something else is missing, the staff is not aware of the product or be bothered to find out a sign of brain laziness.

    I have bought products from the Chinese on a sunday that was part of the “puente”. Had they not been open I would not have been able to deal with the plumbing problems until my next trip. I for one would welcome them. Only issue is the sense of humour !!!!! I can always go to the Spaniards for it.

    What concerns me is that the Spanish will complain etc but not lift their game.

  • #113167
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Agents and Developers are like headless chickens…the Russians are coming, Norwegians, now the Chinese. Thought there was some restriction on Chinese buying property abroad…bullshit really 🙄

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19960471

  • #113171
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    When the Chinese flood Spain, will they be the good hard working ones or the criminal Triad lot? You can bet money that a lot of their crims. will be laundering their ill-gotten gains in Spain and elsewhere. Will they be escaping persecution in China or importing many of their bad Human Rights Issues? 🙄

    China has possibly the worst Human Rights problem of all! 😡

  • #113172
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Each community has its criminal faternity. I cannot see the relevence of the Chinese human rights here ??? Besides they should feel at home as Spain does not have a very good record either. No matter how Spain package & present it.

  • #113173
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Oh shakeel read my post properly 🙄 How do you know that their investors aren’t laundering ill-gotten gains due to their activities in China, and when I say Human Rights issues, I mean Google search it, it’s often on TV that Chinese authorities and businessmen make their money causing misery to huge numbers of the population often by forceful evictions and worse, beatings, imprisonment. Katy just posted a link to a Chinese Mafia gang arrested in Spain, next we will hear of their sweat shops with low paid slaves, Gang masters with agricultural low paid slaves. You appear to condone and say they ‘should feel at home in Spain’ as if all Spain is criminal 😆

    Whilst every fraternity has it’s crims., because of China’s much larger population there could be a lot more of their crims. coming in to Spain, does Spain really want that, who is going to say who is clean and who is not? 🙄

  • #113174
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I thought that non europeans got a very good deal in setting up a company in Spain and didn’t have to pay certain taxes or suchlike? A lot of Spanish shopkeepers used to complain because the chinese shops would change name of ownership and continue with these benefits and therefore pay much less tax etc. I guess the same is for the ‘locotorios’ internet/long distance call places which are mainly run by immigrants of non european countries?

    The chinese shops are great if you buy something and then forget about it if (when) it breaks. I and many others had a heck of a time when something broke or was incomplete in the box because of their lack of receipts. They were also really lacking in customer service. The lady would holler down her mobile and just hold her hand out for you to place the money in it before she gave you the change. She could speak Spanish but obviously prefered shouting at someone on her mobile rather than talk to the customers….;)

    But, agree that it is so annoying when there is a fiesta or Sunday or siesta time and every Spanish shop is closed. Especially when the Mum of little Juan or someone would invite you to his birthday with an hours notice to buy a present.

    The more I think about Spain the more i feel like putting my head in the sand…..

  • #113175
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Another thing to think about….If the Estate agents dream came true and the Chinese and tacky Russians flocked to Spain, would the Brits want to live there….. ❓

  • #113176
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    Strangely my experience of Chinese run restaurants in Madrid is that if they are large restaurants providing Chinese food then I won’t go near them (I have it on very good authority that many of them use meat that is past its sell buy date, and I know many people who have been made serioulsy ill), but if they are small bars providing cheap tapas or sushi (a growing market for them) then they tend to be good. For tapas they usually provide more for your money than Spanish run places, albeit to a lower quality, while there are very good fresh sushi restaurants popping up now where they will prepare everything in front of you, and to a good standard.

  • #113177
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    Another thing to think about….If the Estate agents dream came true and the Chinese and tacky Russians flocked to Spain, would the Brits want to live there….. ❓

    I know at least two cases of (Spanish) people selling up and moving house simply because of the noise made by Chinese families living above them.

  • #113178
    Profile photo of GarySFBCN
    GarySFBCN
    Participant

    I know at least two cases of (Spanish) people selling up and moving house simply because of the noise made by Chinese families living above them.

    I have it on very good authority that many of them use meat that is past its sell buy date, and I know many people who have been made seriously ill)

    Rubbish and racist. In this real estate market and economy, people are moving because of noisy neighbors? “Many of them” use meat that is past its date? Yes, because they’re all alike, right?

  • #113181
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @garysfbcn wrote:

    I know at least two cases of (Spanish) people selling up and moving house simply because of the noise made by Chinese families living above them.

    I have it on very good authority that many of them use meat that is past its sell buy date, and I know many people who have been made seriously ill)

    Rubbish and racist. In this real estate market and economy, people are moving because of noisy neighbors? “Many of them” use meat that is past its date? Yes, because they’re all alike, right?

    Fact: I have been told by a government health inspector that she is continually closing down Chinese restaurants because they use out of date meat.

    Fact: I have been made ill twice, my wife seriously ill once, and I know of two other people made seriously ill from eating at different Chinese restaurants in Madrid

    Fact: One colleague from work and neighbours from where I previously lived had to move because they had a Chinese family living above them and the noise was unbearable (this was a few years ago – before the market crashed)

    Fact: if you think I am racist for simply passing on my (and others’) bad experiences (as well as the good ones – which you ignored), and you think that that means I think they’re all alike (where did I say that? – oh that’s right I didn’t say it, but let’s not get in the way of your bigoted profiling of other people, eh?) then you really do have a screwed up little mind.

  • #113182
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    @mgspain wrote:

    I’m pleased the Chinese numbers are growing in Spain. I see here in Barcelona that apart from the “Bazaar’s” and “Wok’s” the Chinese have taken over many of the cafe’s in the city. It’s a pleasant change when when someone focuses on getting what you want instead of being grunted at by a small fat man with a moustache who spends half his day talking about politics and the other half talking about Barca.

    It’s strange, I hear from Brits who claim they get slow service in Spanish establishments. I’ve always found the opposite, so long as you use the correct greetings eg “Hola! Muy buenos dias!” and then ask for your coffee or beer or racion, then service is extremely rapid. Getting the bill can take a while if they are occupied, but it really does take a mere 20 or 30 seconds to recieve a coffee or beer in a Madrid bar. Surely the Barcelona equivalents are not that different?

  • #113187
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Most Chinese cafes buy their food from a central supplier (in all countries). How else do you think they an offer such large menus. They come in those foil cartons ready for reheating. Don’t think you can compre service of a ración and a beer with a restaurant who does a full menu 🙄

  • #113188
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    How loud/noisy they must have been if the Spanish had to leave ???. All the properties that I had bought in Spain had been top floor properties. I had made sure that I did not have neighbours and if there was going to be a neighbour it was on one side & my bedrooms had to be at the oppsite end.

    TV volume, talking, luaghing, coughing, constant movement of furniture, high heels shoes,speaking loudly when coming out of the lift , talking loudly while trying to open the door of their flat etc is a example comes to mind.

  • #113189
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @mgspain: Love your posting brought a smile on my face imagining a fat Manolo.

    @chopera, I remember in the 90’s, the Spaniards use to say that the Dustman never collected any rubbish from a Chinese resturants. I had put it down to Spanish ironic sense of humour & their vicifirours defence of Spanish food. ( Spanish was not very cosmopolitan in those days. Madrid had four Indian resturants and one needed a mortgage to pay the bill, there was one in calle Almagro frequented by theBritish Embassy staff & some Spanish politicians )

  • #113192
    Profile photo of peterhun
    peterhun
    Participant

    @shakeel wrote:

    Each community has its criminal faternity. I cannot see the relevence of the Chinese human rights here ??? Besides they should feel at home as Spain does not have a very good record either. No matter how Spain package & present it.

    Its illegal for Chinese to take money out of China, any that do are probably criminals.

  • #113193
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    There are exchange control in many countries. This has not stopped capital flight from those countries. Swiss Banks are full of deposit’s from such activities.

  • #113194
    Profile photo of peterhun
    peterhun
    Participant

    Yes, drug dealing, kidnapping, fraud – its all money and most welcome.

  • #113195
    Profile photo of GarySFBCN
    GarySFBCN
    Participant

    Fact: if you think I am racist for simply passing on my (and others’) bad experiences (as well as the good ones – which you ignored), and you think that that means I think they’re all alike (where did I say that? – oh that’s right I didn’t say it, but let’s not get in the way of your bigoted profiling of other people, eh?) then you really do have a screwed up little mind.

    Well, the 4 times I used the tube in London, I was subjected to individuals who, judging by the horrible odor they emitted, obviously had not bathed for a few days. Would I repeat that in a thread discussing Londoners buying-up homes in Spain? No, because it is irrelevant and also, it is idiotic to project real (or imagined) experiences with a few individuals to an entire population or race. Adding a conditional praise (…then they tend to be good) does not change the initial demonization.

  • #113196
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    @garysfbcn wrote:

    Fact: if you think I am racist for simply passing on my (and others’) bad experiences (as well as the good ones – which you ignored), and you think that that means I think they’re all alike (where did I say that? – oh that’s right I didn’t say it, but let’s not get in the way of your bigoted profiling of other people, eh?) then you really do have a screwed up little mind.

    Well, the 4 times I used the tube in London, I was subjected to individuals who, judging by the horrible odor they emitted, obviously had not bathed for a few days.

    Look – it was a bad week, the hot water wasn’t working… I promise it won’t happen again and to shower daily… 😉 😀

  • #113197
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The Chinese won’t buy property in Spain because it is too far to travel. If they did buy overseas it would be in countries closer to home in south-east asia like Indonesia, Malaysia, the Phillipines, Brunei, Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam even Cambodia and Taiwan.

    In any case the Chinese would not want to buy in a region like the euro-zone that is in economic crisis but would be more inclined to buy in countries in south-east asia which seem to be doing quite well economically.

  • #113198
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    @garysfbcn wrote:

    Fact: if you think I am racist for simply passing on my (and others’) bad experiences (as well as the good ones – which you ignored), and you think that that means I think they’re all alike (where did I say that? – oh that’s right I didn’t say it, but let’s not get in the way of your bigoted profiling of other people, eh?) then you really do have a screwed up little mind.

    Well, the 4 times I used the tube in London, I was subjected to individuals who, judging by the horrible odor they emitted, obviously had not bathed for a few days. Would I repeat that in a thread discussing Londoners buying-up homes in Spain? No, because it is irrelevant and also, it is idiotic to project real (or imagined) experiences with a few individuals to an entire population or race. Adding a conditional praise (…then they tend to be good) does not change the initial demonization.

    Well I suppose you could say the same about the New York subway but I get your point 😀

    Never lived near any Chinese but they always seem very polite. I would imagine they would be a lot quieter than the Spanish for apartment living.

  • #113200
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    @jakesuper wrote:

    The Chinese won’t buy property in Spain because it is too far to travel. If they did buy overseas it would be in countries closer to home in south-east asia like Indonesia, Malaysia, the Phillipines, Brunei, Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam even Cambodia and Taiwan.

    In any case the Chinese would not want to buy in a region like the euro-zone that is in economic crisis but would be more inclined to buy in countries in south-east asia which seem to be doing quite well economically.

    i’m afraid you’re badly informed Jake. Ask any of us with personal experience of Spain – the Chinese have been buying up businesses and properties for years now.

    http://elpais.com/elpais/2011/12/23/inenglish/1324621247_850210.html

    The Chinese community has also been able to continue buying property, despite the economic downturn and the difficulties in accessing mortgages. Bafre is a real estate firm employing seven Chinese and one Spaniard. “The Chinese are very serious about repaying their debts. They ask for low mortgages because they have already saved up a substantial amount, and they usually get help from the family,” says one employee at Bafre.

    It’s not come without allegations of tax avoidance, money-laundering and unfair practices though.

    http://elpais.com/elpais/2012/10/16/inenglish/1350388262_394222.html

    Among the detainees are the pornographic actor Nacho Vidal and the Socialist security chief in Fuenlabrada, José Borrás. Most of those detained were Chinese nationals, including Gao Ping, a Madrid-based art dealer who the authorities described as the leader of the international money laundering ring.

    The organization is thought to have laundered between 800 million and 1.2 billion euros in four years, prosecutors said.

  • #113222
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @garysfbcn wrote:

    Fact: if you think I am racist for simply passing on my (and others’) bad experiences (as well as the good ones – which you ignored), and you think that that means I think they’re all alike (where did I say that? – oh that’s right I didn’t say it, but let’s not get in the way of your bigoted profiling of other people, eh?) then you really do have a screwed up little mind.

    Well, the 4 times I used the tube in London, I was subjected to individuals who, judging by the horrible odor they emitted, obviously had not bathed for a few days. Would I repeat that in a thread discussing Londoners buying-up homes in Spain? No, because it is irrelevant and also, it is idiotic to project real (or imagined) experiences with a few individuals to an entire population or race. Adding a conditional praise (…then they tend to be good) does not change the initial demonization.

    If we were discussing the effects of Londoners moving to Chinese/Spanish communities in Spain, and you had some experiences of the effects of Londoners living in Chinese/Spanish communities then I’d be interested in your experiences. And no I wouldn’t assume you were projecting your experiences onto an entire population or race, and no I wouldn’t call you a racist if you mentioned some negative experiences. Why would I?

    Also if we were discussing the way Londoners do business in Spain, and you had experience of the way Londoners do business in Spain by visiting their restaurants on a regular basis then I’d also be interested to hear your experiences. And … guess what … if you had had some bad experiences with restaurants run by Londoners then no I wouldn’t think of you being a racist for providing an honest account of your experiences (and I wouldn’t suggest you imagined them either).

    If we’re unable to discuss each others’ experiences of other cultures (both good and bad) for fear of being called a racist then it’s going to be a lot harder adapting to each others cultural differences.

  • #113224
    Profile photo of GarySFBCN
    GarySFBCN
    Participant

    If we’re unable to discuss each others’ experiences of other cultures (both good and bad) for fear of being called a racist then it’s going to be a lot harder adapting to each others cultural differences.

    I doubt that anyone believes that the Chinese made so much noise that the otherwise quiet and tranquil Spaniards had to move away. And having seen ‘white flight’ here in the US, I know all too well that when people of another race, religion or sexual orientation move next door, some very prejudiced people will move.

    Regardless if this was an imagined experience or not, it was an experience with individuals, not a culture.

  • #113225
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    I heard from a reliable source this week that a Chinese billionaire has completed the purchase of 40 bank owned villas on an upmarket golf resort in Murcia. Now that’s taking the long view with investment unless he has a very large family. 🙂
    The growth industry now perhaps are Spanish golf package holidays sold in China. An wind and all that…..

  • #113227
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Wong Villa holidays pick up your brochure at you local travel agent they will be on the shelf next to the James Villa Holiday brochures.Maybe the start of an enterprise in china for family holidays with a difference

  • #113245
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @garysfbcn wrote:

    If we’re unable to discuss each others’ experiences of other cultures (both good and bad) for fear of being called a racist then it’s going to be a lot harder adapting to each others cultural differences.

    I doubt that anyone believes that the Chinese made so much noise that the otherwise quiet and tranquil Spaniards had to move away. And having seen ‘white flight’ here in the US, I know all too well that when people of another race, religion or sexual orientation move next door, some very prejudiced people will move.

    Regardless if this was an imagined experience or not, it was an experience with individuals, not a culture.

    I know it was an experience with individuals and not a culture. It was only your prejudices that led you to think I was saying otherwise. And it’s only your prejudices that make you refuse to believe me. The fact is people move because they have noisy neighbours, and as it happens I know of two cases of people moving because of noisy neighbours who happened to be Chinese. If I’m unable to mention this because the “thought police” will come out accusing me of being a racist then it won’t really help integration because people won’t be able to sort out their differences.

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