China and Russia

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This topic contains 43 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of GarySFBCN GarySFBCN 4 years, 10 months ago.

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  • #56514
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Sorry this is not Spanish related but these two countries’ self interest and their own appalling human rights issues refusing to either abstain or vote with the UN on the Syrian atrocities just shows how corrupt they are, more so it seems than Spain. Assad of Syria and his cronies are as bad as Gadaffi and Hussein, they deserve no place in this world yet China and Russia support their regimes. 1000’s of innocent Syrians are being massacred and these two countries are sanctioning further massacres.

    How effective would be a worldwide Twitter and Facebook campaign to urge everyone to stop buying anything made in China of which most things seem to be, as well as a boycott of Russian goods?

    That nasty Chinese Gov’t would no doubt feel the pinch in due course and hopefully change their stance. You really do not want Chinese money propping up the Euro, they’d end up owning Europe and dictating to everyone.

    Rant over 😈

  • #107819
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    russian sides with syria, usa with israel. both veto measures that affect their profit margins. (UN resolutions condemning whatever.

    China vetos anything that looks like outside interference, because they don’t want any un resolutions aimed at them in the future.

  • #107820
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    also not a fan of Assads, hopefully syria will move towards a more democratic system.

    Definitly agree on the boycott of chinese goods. more of the stuff is mass produced garbage. Look at the quality of the product people, not only the price!

  • #107821
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Russia and China had reservations about the text as they thought it sounded like “regime change”. When the Libya resolution was passed it was not supposed to be regime change but it turned out that it was. Whatever happens it always turns out the same in those shit countries. Look at Libya, more being tortured than before, rebels fighting amongst themselves….and the first Law passed was to allow men to take more than one wife 🙄 Hard line islamists in Egypt, burning down bars that play music in Tunisia. The West should keep out and let them sort it. Those countries need strong dictators, they aren’t into Western style democracy.

    Spain couldn’t boycott Chinese stuff, every other shop is one. The economy would suffer 😆

  • #107822
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    Russia and China had reservations about the text as they thought it sounded like “regime change”. When the Libya resolution was passed it was not supposed to be regime change but it turned out that it was. Whatever happens it always turns out the same in those shit countries. Look at Libya, more being tortured than before, rebels fighting amongst themselves….and the first Law passed was to allow men to take more than one wife 🙄 Hard line islamists in Egypt, burning down bars that play music in Tunisia. The West should keep out and let them sort it. Those countries need strong dictators, they aren’t into Western style democracy.

    to be fair to these countries, you cannot expect democracy to come overnight. Western democracy was a slow (and violent) process. Hell, most western democracies did not have universal sufferage until around the 1920s. several not until near 1950!

  • #107823
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Yes they are almost stuck in the 14C and that is being generous. Everthing that happens in those countries are sectarian. Only have to look at Iraq between the Sunnis & Shiites. They need a firm leader. Also the TV news we see gives the impression that ALL the people are against a regime. We don’t see the side and the extent to which the amount of support the Government has. It is all one sided and I think the UK is naive in wanting to play a major role in these regime changes.

  • #107824
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Angie. Surely by now you must know it has nothing to do with human rights, Democracy, fair & just etc, etc. It is all about personal interest.

  • #107825
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    I understand reasons why certain Gov’ts in particular Western Gov’ts don’t or shouldn’t get involved with these Arab countries, however when I see Assad type brutality causing suffering and death to people, especially to frightened children en masse then I think to hell with non involvement, get in there and remove that bastard and hang him upside down and let the people kill him slowly. It’s not the children’s fault, every innocent person deserves a life. But rid the world of tyrants, paedophiles, murderers, megalomaniacs and fraudsters, that will probably free up a lot of much needed room even on the Costas.

    Personally, I think the Arab nations should get more involved and remove this tyrant.

    As for China and Russia, they’re absolute bastados for their two faced hypocritic view on human rights. Oh, and it makes me feel better, I’ve just emailed the Chinese and Russian embassies to tell them a worldwide Twitter/Facebook campaign will start to boycott their goods 😆

    Stop buying Chinese goods worldwide, I can even give up my kung po chicken 😛

  • #107826
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    Yes they are almost stuck in the 14C and that is being generous. Everthing that happens in those countries are sectarian. Only have to look at Iraq between the Sunnis & Shiites. They need a firm leader. Also the TV news we see gives the impression that ALL the people are against a regime. We don’t see the side and the extent to which the amount of support the Government has. It is all one sided and I think the UK is naive in wanting to play a major role in these regime changes.

    in general i agree with the statement. would not say they were stuck in the 14c though.

    Unfortunately i dont see common sense breaking out and everyone deciding a plebicite is the best option. mores the pity.

  • #107827
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @angie wrote:

    I understand reasons why certain Gov’ts in particular Western Gov’ts don’t or shouldn’t get involved with these Arab countries, however when I see Assad type brutality causing suffering and death to people, especially to frightened children en masse then I think to hell with non involvement, get in there and remove that bastard and hang him upside down and let the people kill him slowly. It’s not the children’s fault, every innocent person deserves a life.

    amen

    @angie wrote:

    Personally, I think the Arab nations should get more involved and remove this tyrant.

    unfortunately few are run by paragons of freedom. Turkey is the best option. not really arab but at least they are muslim. Maybe Jordan and lebanon? EDIT it does look the arab league is trying to sort things out via the UN

    @angie wrote:

    As for China and Russia, they’re absolute bastados for their two faced hypocritic view on human rights. Oh, and it makes me feel better, I’ve just emailed the Chinese and Russian embassies to tell them a worldwide Twitter/Facebook campaign will start to boycott their goods 😆

    This is what happens when the bureaucracy is in charge. they are only interested in survival.

    @angie wrote:

    Stop buying Chinese goods worldwide, I can even give up my kung po chicken 😛

  • #107828
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    On the Syrian Government website I nearly choked when I read it’s opening sentence:

    ‘Syria is the Cradle of World Civilisation’ 😆

    Should read ‘Syria is the Cradle of World Uncivilisation and Inhumanity’ 😈

    I’ve just expelled their Ambassador 😆 You’d think with their religious beliefs that they might rot in hell, but they still carry on with their despotic ways. Me. I’m a bit old fashioned and still believe in Heaven or Hell from my upbringing! People power does work if you keep at them, it only took 7 years or so to get rid of Ocean Estates but we won 🙄

  • #107829
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Turkey doesn’t have a great record re. torture and human rights. Seems to be going backwards with the Islamist leader. As for despots, hang them upside down and kill them slowly….a great start to a civilised society. Just a matter of NEXT!

    I could easily boycott Chinese goods. Don’t knowingly buy any. Unless you count a chinese from M&S :mrgreen:

  • #107830
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    There’s no place for despots who murder their people, they need getting rid off, sorry but they should suffer, not retiring them to some safe haven living the life of Riley. 😡 Get rid of, and then start a new civilised society.

  • #107831
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I don’t expect much from China and Russia but in this whole “arab spring” ordeal they have the moral high ground without a doubt. Sure they also have their motives but they are far from as sneaky as the US and Israel. They just support their allies who they trade a lot with and understands that one day they are the ones that may be the victim of this propaganda machinery “Russia have Chechnya and other minority problem groups and China have their problems with for example Tibet”. What would Spain, Israel or the US/UK do if protestors armed with RPGs and assault riffles started to rebel in the streets killing of police, army personel and civillians? They would be strucken down quicker than you could say “democracy”. The media would in an instant start behaving like a dictators own propaganda tool. It is so easy to simplify the problems in the middle east but the matter of fact is that certain dictators seem to be ok by most of the western world “Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iraq before Saddam stopped doing their bidding and the list could go on forever. What we “the peacefull loving west” are doing is like taking a stand for ETA or IRA against their respective country and i refuse to do it. We wage more wars and kill more civillians then all of these dictators put together. A real revolution only comes from the people itself without any help from foreign powers.

    Assad is a dictator and should be removed but by it’s own people but at the moment the US, Israel and it’s arab henchmens are arming and supporting one side that suits their purpose in a war against the majority. The “fine, nobel and peacefull protesters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaClWlahtXk&feature=channel_video_title“. The same as what happened in Libya.

    This is what Hillary Clinton had to say about when Ghaddafi was murdered. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DXDU48RHLU That is the sort of leaders we have championing around our virtues.

    What happened in Egypt will lead to chaos but at least the people itself chose their path.

    Are Russia or China great humanitarian nations? Not in a million years but some times even a blind chicken finds a corn now and then. Putin and Mao junior often disgusts me but at least they are easier to read and my question to you is who you rather have pitted against you at the poker table.

    We have our own despots but they are just named differently and wear other costumes. Does it really matter to the citizens of the US if they appoint Romney or Obama both of them are funded by the same banksters “Goldman Sachs, etc”? Basicly the same status quo politics led by the rich elite to do their bidding. Both the democrats and the republicans are tripping themselves over to steal from the honest and hard working americans that just wants to get on with their lives. If these pseudo dictators need a bailout they will get one and if they want a war they will get one. Did they tell you the truth about the coupes in latin america or in Iran back in the days? Why do you think you are being fed the real truth now? The whole western world is a joke and sometimes it’s sad to be a part of it. Once in a while people like Ron Paul shows up and you know that you are not totally by yourself.

  • #107832
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Well I can’t disagree with much of what you say Ardun, most nations are corrupt and only have self-interests at heart.

    My main concern is for those kids being maimed, killed and orphaned.

    Back to the Bible it says ‘All Government is Corrupt’, I don’t know of a ‘clean’ country, even the UK’s. The UK doesn’t care about it’s elderly however I doubt they would allow bombing of children!

    I agree too about Goldman ‘Sucks’ IMO they were the start of these crazy bonuses some 10 years ago or so and everyone followed suit. Quite frankly, I’d like to put all World leaders in the same pot and start again 🙄 Greed is the motivator!

  • #107833
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    Boycotting countries governed by oppressive and totalitarian regimes has only ever led to greater suffering for those being oppressed and never led to a change in regime.

  • #107834
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/un-deadlocked-over-arab%11killing-rights-201202074866/

    THE United Nations Security Council remains deadlocked over which countries are allowed to kill Arab civilians.

    Russia and China have vetoed a plan which would have stopped Syrian President Bashar al-Assad shelling the city of Homs, setting a dangerous precedent of allowing Arabic leaders to kill their own people and threatening Western domination of the Arab extermination market.

    Experts believe the veto signals a challenge to the long-held British and American monopoly of Arab slaughter and that the Chinese now plan to move aggressively into this lucrative field.

    A US State Department spokesman said: “Ten years ago it was the French trying to stop our invasion of Iraq, which has since proved to be an unprecedented, decade-long bloodbath of success.

    “Now we’re supposed to watch Arabs murdered in the streets by guns, mortars, and rockets at the hands of the Syrian Army when they could be humanely executed by remote control. And we’re not even sure they’re killing the right Arabs.”

    A Foreign Office spokesman said: “We’ve been killing Arabs since the 11th Century and all of a sudden we’re supposed to ask for permission? Are we supposed to ask for permission to go to the toilet as well?”

    The US spokesman added: “We have to fight constantly for Israel’s right to kill any Arabs that look at them funny, and now this.

    “Sometimes I wonder if the UN wants us to kill any Arabs at all.”

  • #107836
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    saw a novel site on the news last night Flag burning!! but russian and chinese flags this time.

  • #107841
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    It’s an Islamist pastime…was Quatar this afternoon 🙄 Flag and book burning keeps down the uneducated.

  • #107842
    Profile photo of peterhun
    peterhun
    Participant

    The West can protest all they like knowing that China and Russia will veto anything that will result in Assad’s removal. The fact is they want Assad to stay becuase the alternative is the Muslim Brotherhood who will threaten Israel.

  • #107843
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Same as has happened in Egypt. The MB are fairly busy burning the jewish flag….when they aren’t burning down Christian churches. Spain should benefit re. tourism. At least 4 places that had millions of tourists are now unsafe!

  • #103024
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    http://youtu.be/4FiFVestIiU “out of sync for the first 30secs, they start to discuss Syria after 2 minutes and 30 seconds”

    I’m proud of that anyone actually dares to speak the truth as he does.

  • #103163
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    http://youtu.be/4FiFVestIiU “out of sync for the first 30secs, they start to discuss Syria after 2 minutes and 30 seconds”

    I’m proud of that anyone actually dares to speak the truth as he does.

  • #103025
    Profile photo of GarySFBCN
    GarySFBCN
    Participant

    I’m proud of that anyone actually dares to speak the truth as he does.

    Even a broken clock depicts the correct time twice daily. Paul makes some very good points on foreign policy and I admire his sincerity.

    But he is a semi-racist nutcase, advocating to abolish the Department of Education, the Department of Energy among other drastic measures.

    What’s more, hell will freeze over before he would ever get elected.

  • #103165
    Profile photo of GarySFBCN
    GarySFBCN
    Participant

    I’m proud of that anyone actually dares to speak the truth as he does.

    Even a broken clock depicts the correct time twice daily. Paul makes some very good points on foreign policy and I admire his sincerity.

    But he is a semi-racist nutcase, advocating to abolish the Department of Education, the Department of Energy among other drastic measures.

    What’s more, hell will freeze over before he would ever get elected.

  • #103026
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @garysfbcn wrote:

    I’m proud of that anyone actually dares to speak the truth as he does.

    Even a broken clock depicts the correct time twice daily. Paul makes some very good points on foreign policy and I admire his sincerity.

    But he is a semi-racist nutcase, advocating to abolish the Department of Education, the Department of Energy among other drastic measures.

    What’s more, hell will freeze over before he would ever get elected.

    I agree that it would take a lot for him to get elected but that’s a totally different story and one might not agree with lots of his stuff. His message have allready spread around the world and even in semisocialist countries in europe his ideas have grown a lot in support. Libertarians groups are popping up everywhere but ofcourse mostly amongst young people.

    I’m tired of the BS about him being racist though. He is about that everyone should be viewed as individuals. Would a racist person do what Ron Paul did in that day in age? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rv0Z5SNrF4

  • #103167
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @garysfbcn wrote:

    I’m proud of that anyone actually dares to speak the truth as he does.

    Even a broken clock depicts the correct time twice daily. Paul makes some very good points on foreign policy and I admire his sincerity.

    But he is a semi-racist nutcase, advocating to abolish the Department of Education, the Department of Energy among other drastic measures.

    What’s more, hell will freeze over before he would ever get elected.

    I agree that it would take a lot for him to get elected but that’s a totally different story and one might not agree with lots of his stuff. His message have allready spread around the world and even in semisocialist countries in europe his ideas have grown a lot in support. Libertarians groups are popping up everywhere but ofcourse mostly amongst young people.

    I’m tired of the BS about him being racist though. He is about that everyone should be viewed as individuals. Would a racist person do what Ron Paul did in that day in age? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rv0Z5SNrF4

  • #103173
    Profile photo of GarySFBCN
    GarySFBCN
    Participant

    I’m tired of the BS about him being racist though. He is about that everyone should be viewed as individuals. Would a racist person do what Ron Paul did in that day in age? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rv0Z5SNrF4

    You can’t be serious? You actually believe campaign propaganda?

    Sorry a man who says this is racist, and unfit to be president: “I think we can assume that 95 percent of the black men in that city [Washington, D.C.] are semi-criminal or entirely criminal.”

    What is interesting about Paul supporters is that supporting Paul is almost like a religion. They are brainwashed and cannot be objective.

  • #103029
    Profile photo of GarySFBCN
    GarySFBCN
    Participant

    I’m tired of the BS about him being racist though. He is about that everyone should be viewed as individuals. Would a racist person do what Ron Paul did in that day in age? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rv0Z5SNrF4

    You can’t be serious? You actually believe campaign propaganda?

    Sorry a man who says this is racist, and unfit to be president: “I think we can assume that 95 percent of the black men in that city [Washington, D.C.] are semi-criminal or entirely criminal.”

    What is interesting about Paul supporters is that supporting Paul is almost like a religion. They are brainwashed and cannot be objective.

  • #103201
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @garysfbcn wrote:

    I’m tired of the BS about him being racist though. He is about that everyone should be viewed as individuals. Would a racist person do what Ron Paul did in that day in age? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rv0Z5SNrF4

    You can’t be serious? You actually believe campaign propaganda?

    Sorry a man who says this is racist, and unfit to be president: “I think we can assume that 95 percent of the black men in that city [Washington, D.C.] are semi-criminal or entirely criminal.”

    What is interesting about Paul supporters is that supporting Paul is almost like a religion. They are brainwashed and cannot be objective.

    He is the only one talking about how discriminatory the judicial system is against minorty groups. Why would a racist bring up these sort of discussions? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0ys0F0xdYI

    1. Yes Ron Paul supporters are very persistant. Not a bad trait in my opinion. We won’t roll over when ignorant shitstains treat him unfairly.

    2. It was a newsletter released under Ron Pauls name in the 1980-1990’s which other people wrote for him while he was both working as a doctor and as a politician. The man that actually wrote that stuff works for FOX now. Ron Paul said the first time he heard about it that it was not something he supported or shared it’s views. Would a racist have Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks or Ghandi as his role models? The same man who for free of charge helped hundreds of people from minority groups free of charge while he worked as a doctor and refused to take government money for it because he thought it was wrong. If he was such a big racist why is it that he has the strongest support amongst all the republican canidates from minority groups? Try to spin the BS but anyone with any objective thought process understands how bizare the accusations are. Look he is just so evil and false. Here you have Ron Paul meeting some of his heroes. http://teapartywpbfl.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/rp12-racist-2.jpg http://teapartywpbfl.wordpress.com/2011/12/22/ron-paul-the-racist/

    I don’t tolerate people spewing BS about anyone. Accuse him for having “nutty” ideas but don’t lie about him. So Ron Paul and his campaign ain’t allowed to reply to the accusations? You don’t think the minority groups themselves can’t tell a racist from a none-racist?

    Here is a good article about the Syria situation. http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2012/02/07/our-bloodstained-hands/

    “—Yet it is clear the Western powers have decided on pursuing a policy of regime change no matter what the cost to the people of Syria. The simultaneous withdrawal of the US, British, and French embassies, and the cutting off of diplomatic relations with the nations of the Arab League, is a clearing of the decks for the coming assault – which is going to be the bloodiest and most vicious yet. All of which raises a question: why now? After all, Syria has been a charter member of the infamous “axis of evil” ever since the Bush era, and the US has been overtly hostile to Assad in spite of the post-9/11 intelligence-sharing between Washington and Damascus.

    The reason, in a word, is Iran. Remember, this is just the first Act of the tragedy now being played out in the region: the final act will culminate in “shock and awe” in the skies over Tehran. First, however, a few preliminaries must be gotten out of the way, and a casus belli clearly established. A civil war in Syria will pit Sunni Islamists against Syria’s national minorities: not only Alawites, but also Druze, Christians, and Assyrians. The Kurds are sure to go with the rebels, but they have their own organization – and their own agenda.

    The key question is whether this will draw in the Iranians – and lead to a wider conflict. Syria could become a battleground in the larger Sunni-Shi’ite conflict, an outcome the regime-changers in Washington, London, and Paris are counting on. The idea is to unite the Sunni countries against Persian/Shia “imperialism” – with Israel standing in the background and ready to pick up the pieces.

    We in the West have been fed a steady diet of pro-rebel propaganda, consisting of tales of mass slaughter carried out by the Syrian military. Yet it is often the case that initial claims of casualties are “revised downwards,” as in the case of the alleged shelling of the Khaldiyeh section of besieged Homs, where “hundreds” eventually became “dozens” of dead and wounded. Remember the phony reports of “incubator babies” supposedly speared by Saddam Hussein’s troops as they entered Kuwait? Well it looks like they’ve recycled that bit of war propaganda and recast it in a Syrian context. Most of the reports we get of atrocities committed by government troops are coming from the rebels, and there is almost no attempt by the Western media to separate war propaganda from actual news – and so what else is new?—“

  • #103043
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @garysfbcn wrote:

    I’m tired of the BS about him being racist though. He is about that everyone should be viewed as individuals. Would a racist person do what Ron Paul did in that day in age? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rv0Z5SNrF4

    You can’t be serious? You actually believe campaign propaganda?

    Sorry a man who says this is racist, and unfit to be president: “I think we can assume that 95 percent of the black men in that city [Washington, D.C.] are semi-criminal or entirely criminal.”

    What is interesting about Paul supporters is that supporting Paul is almost like a religion. They are brainwashed and cannot be objective.

    He is the only one talking about how discriminatory the judicial system is against minorty groups. Why would a racist bring up these sort of discussions? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0ys0F0xdYI

    1. Yes Ron Paul supporters are very persistant. Not a bad trait in my opinion. We won’t roll over when ignorant shitstains treat him unfairly.

    2. It was a newsletter released under Ron Pauls name in the 1980-1990’s which other people wrote for him while he was both working as a doctor and as a politician. The man that actually wrote that stuff works for FOX now. Ron Paul said the first time he heard about it that it was not something he supported or shared it’s views. Would a racist have Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks or Ghandi as his role models? The same man who for free of charge helped hundreds of people from minority groups free of charge while he worked as a doctor and refused to take government money for it because he thought it was wrong. If he was such a big racist why is it that he has the strongest support amongst all the republican canidates from minority groups? Try to spin the BS but anyone with any objective thought process understands how bizare the accusations are. Look he is just so evil and false. Here you have Ron Paul meeting some of his heroes. http://teapartywpbfl.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/rp12-racist-2.jpg http://teapartywpbfl.wordpress.com/2011/12/22/ron-paul-the-racist/

    I don’t tolerate people spewing BS about anyone. Accuse him for having “nutty” ideas but don’t lie about him. So Ron Paul and his campaign ain’t allowed to reply to the accusations? You don’t think the minority groups themselves can’t tell a racist from a none-racist?

    Here is a good article about the Syria situation. http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2012/02/07/our-bloodstained-hands/

    “—Yet it is clear the Western powers have decided on pursuing a policy of regime change no matter what the cost to the people of Syria. The simultaneous withdrawal of the US, British, and French embassies, and the cutting off of diplomatic relations with the nations of the Arab League, is a clearing of the decks for the coming assault – which is going to be the bloodiest and most vicious yet. All of which raises a question: why now? After all, Syria has been a charter member of the infamous “axis of evil” ever since the Bush era, and the US has been overtly hostile to Assad in spite of the post-9/11 intelligence-sharing between Washington and Damascus.

    The reason, in a word, is Iran. Remember, this is just the first Act of the tragedy now being played out in the region: the final act will culminate in “shock and awe” in the skies over Tehran. First, however, a few preliminaries must be gotten out of the way, and a casus belli clearly established. A civil war in Syria will pit Sunni Islamists against Syria’s national minorities: not only Alawites, but also Druze, Christians, and Assyrians. The Kurds are sure to go with the rebels, but they have their own organization – and their own agenda.

    The key question is whether this will draw in the Iranians – and lead to a wider conflict. Syria could become a battleground in the larger Sunni-Shi’ite conflict, an outcome the regime-changers in Washington, London, and Paris are counting on. The idea is to unite the Sunni countries against Persian/Shia “imperialism” – with Israel standing in the background and ready to pick up the pieces.

    We in the West have been fed a steady diet of pro-rebel propaganda, consisting of tales of mass slaughter carried out by the Syrian military. Yet it is often the case that initial claims of casualties are “revised downwards,” as in the case of the alleged shelling of the Khaldiyeh section of besieged Homs, where “hundreds” eventually became “dozens” of dead and wounded. Remember the phony reports of “incubator babies” supposedly speared by Saddam Hussein’s troops as they entered Kuwait? Well it looks like they’ve recycled that bit of war propaganda and recast it in a Syrian context. Most of the reports we get of atrocities committed by government troops are coming from the rebels, and there is almost no attempt by the Western media to separate war propaganda from actual news – and so what else is new?—“

  • #107858
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Evidence of the “peacefull” protesters faking videos. Some disturbing images and videos.

    “How Terrorists in Syria prepare another Fake Video !”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA4SHsEi3wo

    “Syrian protesters armed and fully supported by Zionist to get rid of president Bashar Al Asad”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg-oO…ipcontrinter=1

    “Homs Massacre a Fake, Syria 04-02-2012”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature…&v=ff_ua2MMtbU

    “Syria – ABC News (AU) expose the lies of Reuters, ABC and other Medias”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature…&v=kaNei6tuiUU

    That is it for me.

  • #107867
    Profile photo of GarySFBCN
    GarySFBCN
    Participant

    Evidence of the “peacefull” protesters faking videos. Some disturbing images and videos.

    Disgusting. The first video you linked to is on someone’s Youtube channel that includes a least one video that is of the ‘Holocaust denier’ theme. Sorry, I don’t believe anything posted. there.

    I previously wrote that Paul is a semi-racist nutcase. I should have included that his supporters also are semi-racist nutcases.

  • #107873
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @garysfbcn wrote:

    Evidence of the “peacefull” protesters faking videos. Some disturbing images and videos.

    Disgusting. The first video you linked to is on someone’s Youtube channel that includes a least one video that is of the ‘Holocaust denier’ theme. Sorry, I don’t believe anything posted. there.

    I previously wrote that Paul is a semi-racist nutcase. I should have included that his supporters also are semi-racist nutcases.

    Are you stooping as low as to imply that I’m semi-racist nutcase?

    So when given proof of faked injuries and faked deaths your answer is to throw the pacifier out of the stroller.

    Stop trying to use one of histories greatest tragedies “The holocaust” to your advantage to try and belittle the evidence provided. It has no bearing what so ever in this discussion.

  • #107874
    Profile photo of GarySFBCN
    GarySFBCN
    Participant

    It has no bearing what so ever in this discussion.

    My side of the discussion with you has terminated. And I’m sure that this has become quite a bore to others who post here. Please feel free to continue to discuss this with yourself.

  • #107877
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @garysfbcn wrote:

    It has no bearing what so ever in this discussion.

    My side of the discussion with you has terminated. And I’m sure that this has become quite a bore to others who post here. Please feel free to continue to discuss this with yourself.

    Why is it that when anyone offers a view that is different to yours you have to behave like a six year old?

    I’m quite happy to hear about Ron Paul – I may not agree with him – but I’ll listen to what he has to say. I’d also listen to what you have to say – but all you do is insult people whose opinions don’t coincide with yours.

  • #107878
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @Ardun wrote:

    Evidence of the “peacefull” protesters faking videos. Some disturbing images and videos.

    “How Terrorists in Syria prepare another Fake Video !”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA4SHsEi3wo

    As Gary pointed out though, a site that includes such things as the denial of the Holocaust, cannot be treated as a vaild source.

    @Ardun wrote:

    “Syrian protesters armed and fully supported by Zionist to get rid of president Bashar Al Asad”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg-oO…ipcontrinter=1

    Link does not seem to work for me

    @Ardun wrote:

    “Homs Massacre a Fake, Syria 04-02-2012”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature…&v=ff_ua2MMtbU

    The source is Sana though. A government run news agency. Their articles show little signs of being independent.

    @Ardun wrote:

    “Syria – ABC News (AU) expose the lies of Reuters, ABC and other Medias”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature…&v=kaNei6tuiUU

    This one was interesting. but looks like the footage is set in lebanon.

    I am willing to bet that there are quite few few false scenes being recorded by both sides. no doubt about it, this is as much a media war as a political struggle.

    But I choose to be against the side that has bared foreign journalists in the country, and who has the most to lose from free elections. In this case Assad & Co.

  • #107880
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @fuengi wrote:

    @Ardun wrote:
    Evidence of the “peacefull” protesters faking videos. Some disturbing images and videos.

    @Ardun wrote:

    “Syria – ABC News (AU) expose the lies of Reuters, ABC and other Medias”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature…&v=kaNei6tuiUU

    This one was interesting. but looks like the footage is set in lebanon.

    I am willing to bet that there are quite few few false scenes being recorded by both sides. no doubt about it, this is as much a media war as a political struggle.

    But I choose to be against the side that has bared foreign journalists in the country, and who has the most to lose from free elections. In this case Assad & Co.

    Aye I agree totally with this. No side is innocent in this conflict. It scary that one needs to question everything that is comming out from both of these sides. Yes that clip have been used around the world to portray what “Syrias government” was doing but when it was infact from Lebanon.

    Here is a new one of the one that was not working. Clearly not just peacefull protesters. I don’t know how they can assert that Israel is directly involved in supplying those weapons though. My guess is that it’s just the normal hate for Israel propaganda. I haven’t looked through the other things these people upload and take no responsibillity or support anything else that they have in their profiles. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg-oOEWDHA0&skipcontrinter=1

  • #107887
    Profile photo of GarySFBCN
    GarySFBCN
    Participant

    Why is it that when anyone offers a view that is different to yours you have to behave like a six year old?

    You’re missing the point: The Youtube channel in the link contains vile content, such as Holocaust denial videos. Content there is suspect at best.

    But Ardun didn’t even address that in his/her response.

    Ardun wants us to ‘overlook’ that.

    Ron Paul’s newsletters in the 1990s are filled with racist crap. Paul supporters say that he didn’t really write the racist articles, he only published them in newsletters, such as Ron Paul’s Freedom Report or Ron Paul’s Survival Report, without authors listed, and some with first-person accounts that indicate it was indeed Paul’s writing. Regardless of who actually wrote the articles, they were published under Ron Paul’s name.

    Ardun wants us to ‘overlook’ that.

    Ron Paul has huge support from white supremacists and Holocaust deniers. OK, so he can’t control who supports him. But it doesn’t matter to him. “I’ll go to anybody who I think I can convert to change their viewpoints — so that would be to me incidental,” he said. “I’m always looking at converting people to look at liberty the way I do” Paul said.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/26/us/politics/ron-paul-disowns-extremists-views-but-doesnt-disavow-the-support.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

    In 2008, Paul endorsed Chuck Baldwin for president. Chuck Baldwin is a racist nutcase who has written a weekly column for VDARE, a racist, anti-immigrant, anti-Semitic group.

    There are hundreds of other examples of Paul’s racism or support of racists, just Google and see for yourself.

    And the fruit doesn’t fall far from the tree: Paul’s son, State Senator Rand Paul said, in an interview on TV, that business should have the right to discriminate, that blacks have no right to expect the freedom to eat in a restaurant.

    But my real issue is that Ardun, like most Paul supporters, is so strident in his/her support of Paul, so dogmatic about some of the good ideas that Paul has, that he/she overlooks the elephant in the room: Paul is a nutcase racist.

    I supported Obama in the last US presidential election. But supporting Obama wasn’t a belief or religion. Supporting Ron Paul is a belief system to his supporters. It is dogma in the extreme and as history teaches us, any dogma in the extreme is harmful.

  • #107888
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @garysfbcn wrote:

    Why is it that when anyone offers a view that is different to yours you have to behave like a six year old?

    You’re missing the point: The Youtube channel in the link contains vile content, such as Holocaust denial videos. Content there is suspect at best.

    But Ardun didn’t even address that in his/her response.

    Ardun wants us to ‘overlook’ that.

    Ron Paul’s newsletters in the 1990s are filled with racist crap. Paul supporters say that he didn’t really write the racist articles, he only published them in newsletters, such as Ron Paul’s Freedom Report or Ron Paul’s Survival Report, without authors listed, and some with first-person accounts that indicate it was indeed Paul’s writing. Regardless of who actually wrote the articles, they were published under Ron Paul’s name.

    Ardun wants us to ‘overlook’ that.

    Ron Paul has huge support from white supremacists and Holocaust deniers. OK, so he can’t control who supports him. But it doesn’t matter to him. “I’ll go to anybody who I think I can convert to change their viewpoints — so that would be to me incidental,” he said. “I’m always looking at converting people to look at liberty the way I do” Paul said.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/26/us/politics/ron-paul-disowns-extremists-views-but-doesnt-disavow-the-support.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

    In 2008, Paul endorsed Chuck Baldwin for president. Chuck Baldwin is a racist nutcase who has written a weekly column for VDARE, a racist, anti-immigrant, anti-Semitic group.

    There are hundreds of other examples of Paul’s racism or support of racists, just Google and see for yourself.

    And the fruit doesn’t fall far from the tree: Paul’s son, State Senator Rand Paul said, in an interview on TV, that business should have the right to discriminate, that blacks have no right to expect the freedom to eat in a restaurant.

    But my real issue is that Ardun, like most Paul supporters, is so strident in his/her support of Paul, so dogmatic about some of the good ideas that Paul has, that he/she overlooks the elephant in the room: Paul is a nutcase racist.

    I supported Obama in the last US presidential election. But supporting Obama wasn’t a belief or religion. Supporting Ron Paul is a belief system to his supporters. It is dogma in the extreme and as history teaches us, any dogma in the extreme is harmful.

    Would a racist hold these views? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0ys0F0xdYI

    Come on now Gary. I don’t support anything else that those people post or upload. I had actually not even looked through the stuff. My point was that they can be idiots but still post certain things that are relevant for the discussion. But I agree that one should be highly critical of some of those posters.

    You tried to imply that I was someone that supports the revision of the holocaust and that just makes you look silly. You even called me a semi-racist.

    About Ron Pauls newsletters. He has clearly said that it was stupid for him to not look through the stuff. What more can he do? You probably didn’t even look through my answer to your first response about it. There is lots of material giving you and aswer to it. Here is his answer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn1pQHoiVgY

    He has gotten some donations from idiots and he has said that it’s better for him to keep the money and try to sway people over and use it for good causes instead of handing the money back to them and they can use it for bad causes. They just wasted their money. Bush even got donations from far right wing groups. Does that make him a racist?

    I have never even heard about Chuck Baldwin but from his wikipedia page he seems to share quite a lot of common ground with Ron Paul. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Baldwin What is so bad with him? This was a serious question because I have not looked him up. *edit ok he seems to have very disturbed private views about homosexuals etc.

    As a Republican Party member, Baldwin was state chairman of the Florida Moral Majority in the 1980s. However, during the 2000 campaign of Republican George W. Bush for U.S. President, Baldwin left the party and began a long period of criticism of Bush. Baldwin endorsed U.S. Representative Ron Paul for the 2008 Republican nomination for president, and Paul in turn endorsed Baldwin for the presidency in the 2008 general election.
    Baldwin supports ending U.S. involvement in the United Nations, reducing U.S. income taxes, and repeal of the Patriot Act. He would withdraw troops from Iraq and seek to end illegal immigration by enforcing immigration laws. He supports the gold standard, the right to keep and bear arms, homeschooling, and the proposed Sanctity of Life Act, which would define “human life” and legal personhood as beginning at conception, and prevent federal courts from hearing cases on abortion-related legislation.

    This might be sort of radical but what Rand is saying is not that he enjoys being a racist or that he thinks it’s a sane view. He is so much for freedom and that people should be judged as individuals. If people wants to hold racist views let the idiots have them. Both Rand and Ron thinks that its up to the individual to behave like an idiot and discriminate people because it will end up in their own destruction “company going bankrupt because they will loose money etc by people boyocotting it”. It’s a very radical and different view but to call them racist is just wrong. They are for extreme individual freedom as long as you don’t hurt anyone else physical or their property. I can understand why some right wing groups are appelead by this part of their views.

    Do you seriously believe that anyone having Rosa Parks, Ghandi and Martin Luther King as their idols could be a racist?

    I supported Obama last time around so you know but he has shown me that it was mostly talk and no business.

  • #107889
    Profile photo of GarySFBCN
    GarySFBCN
    Participant

    Both Rand and Ron thinks that its up to the individual to behave like an idiot and discriminate people because it will end up in their own destruction “company going bankrupt because they will loose money etc by people boyocotting it”. It’s a very radical and different view but to call them racist is just wrong. They are for extreme individual freedom as long as you don’t hurt anyone else physical or their property.

    Adhering to a dogma and ignoring very real problems, such as racism, is the domain of ivory-tower inhabitants.

    The idea that “business will lose money” is not true. For example, here in California, the total percent of adults who were tobacco smokers never ever was above 40%, and yet the State had to force restaurants to first offer non-smoking sections, and then finally banned smoking completly. Until the State intervened, ‘the marketplace’ failed to respond to the majority, those non-smokers who did not want to smell like an ashtray after dining out or going to a bar.

    Again, I admire Paul’s sincerity and his foreign policy proposals. But to deny his racist past is whitewashing. We’re never going to agree about that.

    Do you support the elimination of the Department of Energy? How about the Department of Education? Do you believe that State’s have the right to control everything, including prohibiting the marriage of heterosexual couples that are different races or religions?

    I don’t. But Ron Paul does.

    Finally, we have an expression here: “Other than that Mrs. Lincooln, how was the play?” To overlook – and not even address – blatantly racist, anti-Semitic or other vile content in order to make your point did, in my mind, make me wonder if you were sympathetic with the ideas expressed in that content. That is why I called you a racist nutcase and cut off the conversation. Thanks for clearing that up in your last post.

    In my mind, if someone puts poison in the pond, the entire pond is toxic. You are more nuanced than I.

  • #107891
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @garysfbcn wrote:

    Adhering to a dogma and ignoring very real problems, such as racism, is the domain of ivory-tower inhabitants.

    Yes you have a point about Paulites being dogmatic in some sense but can you explain why he has the biggest support amongst minorites of all the republican candidates if they don’t believe he is on the right track?

    Ron Paul actually changed his view on the death penalty because he thinks the judicial system is discriminating minorities like hispanics and afro-americans.

    @garysfbcn wrote:

    The idea that “business will lose money” is not true. For example, here in California, the total percent of adults who were tobacco smokers never ever was above 40%, and yet the State had to force restaurants to first offer non-smoking sections, and then finally banned smoking completly. Until the State intervened, ‘the marketplace’ failed to respond to the majority, those non-smokers who did not want to smell like an ashtray after dining out or going to a bar.

    To be honest I personally really loved that they banned smoking in restaurants and I agree that its really weird that this couldn’t be worked out by the free markets. One negative side is that now you can smell the sweat and other fishy odors 😀 . I know many restaurants owners personally and they told me that even they liked it because they wouldn’t dare to do it themselves. I don’t like the idea of forcing people to do stuff though. I wouldn’t use heroin or pot if it was legal but I think people should have the right to destroy their bodies if they wanted too. The positive side of it is that it removes the illegal sides of it.

    @garysfbcn wrote:

    Again, I admire Paul’s sincerity and his foreign policy proposals. But to deny his racist past is whitewashing. We’re never going to agree about that.

    This we will never agree upon but you have the right to your opinion. I even think that Ron Paul would even say that he held racist views if he had them. He has never sugar coated anything.

    @garysfbcn wrote:

    Do you support the elimination of the Department of Energy? How about the Department of Education? Do you believe that State’s have the right to control everything, including prohibiting the marriage of heterosexual couples that are different races or religions?

    Yes I’m for a minimalist goverment apparatus but if schools freely wants one they can setup an organisation themselves. I don’t think goverment involvement in anything is good in the long run.

    I don’t think it should be possible for anyone to deny two, three or four etc consenting adults to do anything of their own free will but at the same thing I don’t think you can force for example a private church to marry them “this goes for race, same genders, left handed, big nosed etc”. If these more uncommon constelations wants to get “married” in a church they can start their own church and do it. I don’t think the goverment should have any say in this and that goes for not being able to make it illegal also. He will let the states decide becaue he sees nothing in the constitution that gives him this power. I see it as a contract between consenting adults. No state should be able to dissallow this sort of contract. Ron Paul have avoided talking about this because he hints that he wants a simillar solution but is a little bit weak in that he wants to make “marriage” something else but with the same legal situation for the couples. I don’t think the real marriage term should be reserves for only a man and a woman so my view differs a little there.

    You have to separate Ron Pauls personal views and what he thinks the federal government should do. He is a constituationalist.

    @garysfbcn wrote:

    Finally, we have an expression here: “Other than that Mrs. Lincooln, how was the play?” To overlook – and not even address – blatantly racist, anti-Semitic or other vile content in order to make your point did, in my mind, make me wonder if you were sympathetic with the ideas expressed in that content. That is why I called you a racist nutcase and cut off the conversation. Thanks for clearing that up in your last post.

    In my mind, if someone puts poison in the pond, the entire pond is toxic. You are more nuanced than I.

    You have some good points and hopefully we both learned something. I can honestly say that my views are not normal but at the same time I don’t see normal as something good.

    I myself thought Ron Paul was sort of a nutcase a couple of years ago but the man has grown on me and when prediction after prediction turned true I fell in love with him :D. He ties everything together and doesn’t sugar coat it.

    This to me portrays what I think is wrong in todays society about how politicians and media try to handle the issue of racism. They do stupid stuff like implementing a special day for “blacks”. What they should do is handle real issues like for example how minorites runs a much higher risk to get the death penalty for the same crime. Is it question about money for a good lawyer or is the judicial system. Discrimination should never be ok from the goverment “police, judicial system etc”. If we hold those areas free from discrimination the rest will settle itself.

  • #107895
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/12/us-syria-idUSL5E8DB0BH20120212

    We are in great company to condemn Syria. Never thought this day would come when western powers officially had the semisame agenda as Al Qaeda

    Al Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahri urged Syrians not to rely on the West or Arab governments in their uprising.

    “You know better what they are planning against you. Our people in Syria, don’t depend on the Arab League and its corrupt governments supporting it,” Zawahri said in a video recording posted on the Internet. He described Assad as a butcher and urged Muslims in Turkey, Iraq, Lebanon and Jordan to come to the aid of the rebels.

    Saudi Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal said: “How long will we stay as onlookers to what is happening to the brotherly Syrian people, and how much longer will we grant the Syrian regime one period after another so it can commit more massacres against its people?”

    “At our meeting today I call for decisive measures, after the failure of the half-solutions,” he said. “The Arab League should…open all channels of communication with the Syrian opposition and give all forms of support to it.”

    A resolution approved by Arab League ministers meeting in Cairo called for “opening communication channels with the Syrian opposition and providing all forms of political and material support to it

    I always love when dictators themselves come out and complain.

  • #107896
    Profile photo of GarySFBCN
    GarySFBCN
    Participant

    Ron Paul actually changed his view on the death penalty because he thinks the judicial system is discriminating minorities like hispanics and afro-americans.

    Paul has some wonder ideas. He does not appear to be ‘owned’ by anyone. My fear is that he is, at times, he is prisoner of dogma over practicality.

    Thanks for responding!

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