Can’t afford to carry on with mortgage payments

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This topic contains 71 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 8 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #53746
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    Anonymous
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    Hi everyone. We have tried and tried but have now realised that we cannot go on. Our mortgage has doubled in the 2 years we have had the apartment. We have had problems with properties in this country with a developer which has recently been highlighted on Inside out and Panorama. This means that we have been trying to service 5 mortgages with hardly any income. Can anyone tell me what will happen to us now. There are tenants in our apartment paying 450 euros per month and their agreement is til end of August. Our monthly mortgage payments are 923 euros. What will the bank do? We have a residential property in Uk. Many thanks. 🙁

  • #79556
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Sorry to hear of your predicament, I’m sure that you are not alone although that is probably no comfort to you.
    Firstly, don’t just bury your head in the sand. Talk to your mortgage provider and tell them of your problem. Maybe they will be able to give you a mortgage repayment “holiday”, let you just pay off the interest for a while, or extend the term of your mortgage in oder to reduce your monthly payments.
    If the worst comes to the worst, and you default, they can repossess your property to sell it at auction, but, as you know, tenants have rights and so they will probably not do anything until the tenancy is up.
    Is your property up for sale? If so, and you advise the bank that you are actively trying to sell it, they may be inclined to be more lenient.
    What do you want? Do you want to hang on to the property if you can or get shot of it?
    Good luck.

  • #79558
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Hillbilly, Thanks for your response. I cannot sell because I would have negative equity. I will speak to the bank again to see if we can come to some sort of arrangement. Even if we were paying interest only it would cost us over 700 euros per month. How would the bank pursue me for the difference in what they sell the property for and the mortgage? Many thanks.

  • #79574
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    CathyD wrote:
    Hi Hillbilly, Thanks for your response. I cannot sell because I would have negative equity. I will speak to the bank again to see if we can come to some sort of arrangement. Even if we were paying interest only it would cost us over 700 euros per month. How would the bank pursue me for the difference in what they sell the property for and the mortgage? Many thanks.

    Hi,

    you should contact a good lawyer.

    You have 2 choices:

    1) try to get from the bank a reversal of the interest rate hike. This is currently happening in USA with some Adjustable mortgages and some banks prefer this to having properties foreclosed.

    2) let the property foreclose. This means stop paying the mortgage and let the bank take the property from you.

    I do nto know if they can come after your UK property, this is something that a good Spanish lawyer can tell you.

    I would advice you to threaten the bank with the choice 2) in order to get the choice 1).
    You have nothing to lose, try to be as noisy as any Spanish person would be in your situation.

  • #79576
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    i think that the banks in general especially at the moment are not to keen on foreclosing as they don’t really want the property back in the current market, hence i’d take on board what ralita has said.

    heard a story yesterday that somebody knows a person who hasn’t paid their mortgage for 12 months, they’ve been contacted by the bank basically saying lets forget the last 12 months ignore the interest if they start re-paying now!!!!

    This i’m sure isn’t typical but does display that the banks are likely to welcome open and frank discussion and try and help you where they can.

  • #79577
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    CathyD I know I will take some flak for this, but you have 5 mortgages and cannot service them. If you got yourself into that situation without considering the consequences if things go wrong, hope that you do not expect too much sympathy from all, especially if you were not conned like some on here.

    You have been offered some advice and it is suggested that an option is to get the bank to foreclose.
    Worth checking if in the event that the bank sells on for a level below your borrowings, you will not be liable for the deficit, otherwise it is lose, lose.

    A personal question maybe, but why 5 mortgages, did you think that dealing in property was an easy, no risk way of making money?

    Regarding if the bank can claim on your UK properties, I assume that you know what you put your name to and if not, suggest you read it.

    Final thought, I hope you get over your problems, and suppose that we will all then have to pick up a share of your debts by way of increased interest rates and costs imposed by banks?

  • #79580
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    ……..said with such warmth.

  • #79582
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Thanks everyone for your input. I suppose on the face of it I do look a bit stupid but unfortunately we did get caught up with an unscrupulous developer in the UK which is why we can’t service the mortgages. I am however doing everything possible to avoid repossession. For legal reasons I can’t go into too much detail.
    I posted on this forum, not to get sympathy but for some CONSTRUCTIVE advice from people who have more experience than me.

  • #79583
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    OK, so some “CONSTRUCTIVE” advice. Work, harder and longer, earn more and pay off your debts, even if you have to negotiate with borrowers. Remember, they are YOUR debts, so you have an obligation to pay them.
    If things had gone well and you had made huge profits from your dealings, bet you would not want to share the profits with your lender?
    So what is it that is bringing you down?
    The apartment which your rental income is 450 euros per month and mortgage payments are 923 euros, or the deal with the “an unscrupulous developer in the UK”?

    goodstich44, no, just honesty and what many, obviously not you, think.
    Other side of story you see.

  • #79586
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    Anonymous
    Participant
    mg wrote:
    OK, so some “CONSTRUCTIVE” advice. Work, harder and longer, earn more and pay off your debts, even if you have to negotiate with borrowers. Remember, they are YOUR debts, so you have an obligation to pay them.
    If things had gone well and you had made huge profits from your dealings, bet you would not want to share the profits with your lender?
    So what is it that is bringing you down?
    The apartment which your rental income is 450 euros per month and mortgage payments are 923 euros, or the deal with the “an unscrupulous developer in the UK”?

    .

    Mg, what you say makes perfect sense.

    BUt there are tens of millions of people around the world in the same situation of having negative equity.

    The damage has been done, now there should appear a solution, eventhough might involve us (the inocent) paying for the excesses and ignorance of others. The alternative is the total decay of the capitalist world.

  • #79592
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @ralita wrote:

    eventhough might involve us (the inocent) paying for the excesses and ignorance of others. The alternative is the total decay of the capitalist world.

    wrong wrong wrong, if people go into these ventures thinking the masses will bail them out if it goes wrong then the capitalist world will fold, people have to take responsibility for their actions which the initiator of this thread appears to be doing.

  • #79608
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I feel that the current state of the property markete has been made worse by people who know little if anything about investments, being able to borrow 100% to buy an overseas property. Or, re-mortgaging their main home to raise a deposit then borrow the rest.
    Let’s have the days back when you had to have 20% of the purchase price as a deposite and not re-mortgage to obtain it.
    Remember, people are greedy and many who are ignorant regarding such matters are more greedy.

  • #79612
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    Anonymous
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    The-Frank-Tavern wrote:
    ralita wrote:
    eventhough might involve us (the inocent) paying for the excesses and ignorance of others. The alternative is the total decay of the capitalist world.

    wrong wrong wrong, if people go into these ventures thinking the masses will bail them out if it goes wrong then the capitalist world will fold, people have to take responsibility for their actions which the initiator of this thread appears to be doing.

    It does not matter much why stupid/greedy people went into these ventures thinking the masses will bail them out…

    We will all have to bail the sheeple out. Would you prefer a failure of the banking system and total anarchy?

    I hate banks, greedy and uninformed buyers, liar developers as much as anybody else but I prefer to pay now instead of living back in the Middle Ages.

  • #79619
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @ralita wrote:

    It does not matter much why stupid/greedy people went into these ventures thinking the masses will bail them out…

    We will all have to bail the sheeple out. Would you prefer a failure of the banking system and total anarchy?

    I hate banks, greedy and uninformed buyers, liar developers as much as anybody else but I prefer to pay now instead of living back in the Middle Ages.

    a little bit dramtic do you not think failure of the banking system and anarchy?

    the banks need to pay a heavy price, its these stupid idiots who are largely responsible for the current mess. lending money like they are throwing confetti around. if they’d didn’t lend money to unsuspecting ill informed purchasers, the lieing toe rag developers wouldn’t be in business and the likes of the instigator of this thread wouldn’t be in such a mess.

    Where was their lending criteria when they lent to this person,

    could they afford the repayments?
    could they afford the repayments with a interest rate rise?
    at what interest rate would they really be suffering at, what is the likelihood the rate would reach this level in the next ten years?
    did she provide a water tight business plan, based on market evidence, ie could these properties be let, for how long and at what levels.
    etc. etc. etc.

    These were obviously not considered otherwise the person would not be in their current predicament. If this means some medium term pain for the banks then so be it, but it doesn’t mean the tax payers should be paying up for their complete inadequacies and irresponsible lending.

  • #79623
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    katy
    Spectator

    I find it difficult to offer any sympathy or advice to someone who took out 5 mortgages.

  • #79624
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    Anonymous
    Participant
    The-Frank-Tavern wrote:
    [a little bit dramtic do you not think failure of the banking system and anarchy?
    .

    Ask Bill Bernacke. He seems to be going through the fire with a petrol canister in his hands…

    He is now begging banks to extend the low interest rate mortgages (the first stage of the ARM mortgages) for the greedy/stupid/uninformed buyers. The American economy is already in recession, a big wave of foreclosures might bring their economy to its knees.

    Spain will be much worse than USA as they not have anything to support their economy like USA does. UK won’t be much better either as the manufacteuring is gone to India and China.

    By the way, we are all already paying for the excesses of reedy/stupid/uninformed buyers.
    The rate in UK was cut by .5% which means lower saving rate for prudent people whereas the mortgage rates are still going up.

  • #79632
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    goodstich44, looks like I am not alone with the cool attitude?

  • #79645
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    Anonymous
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    mg

    yes, let’s all blame the excesses of the greedy/stupid/uninformed buyers, shall we. A nice soft target, and who else could possibly be to blame?

  • #79647
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    I find it difficult to offer any sympathy or advice to someone who took out 5 mortgages.

    Ditto.

    No sympathy at all 🙄 Pure greed.

  • #79648
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    Anonymous
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    goodstich44 wrote:
    mg

    yes, let’s all blame the excesses of the greedy/stupid/uninformed buyers, shall we. A nice soft target, and who else could possibly be to blame?

    They are the most guilty. Nobody forced them to take mortgages and buy overprices pieces of junk.

    But as I said before, many used in Spain the free money from MEW-ing their main residences.

  • #79650
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    ralita

    i have always accepted that some people have got themselves in to their own mess due to greed/stupidity. That as you well know is only half the story though. On a thread i started yesterday, Aifos are facing at least 200 cases of misconduct through the courts. How many stupid greedy dodgy agents were happy to sell using these and similar developers, and how many stupid greedy lawyers were happy to go along with the lies, and how many stupid greedy banks were prepared to lend money, and how many greedy and stupid councils allowed illegal developments to be built……..how far do want to go?, what about lack of regulation, what about brown envelopes, what about the the justice system, where common sense is sometimes ignored in favour of greed /stupidity?

    How many decent people who have been greedy/made mistakes, have done so at the hands of liars and cheats, who make a living out of decieving and lies. At long last many of these are being found out through the media or suffering themselves for the mess they have had a big share in creating. I have no sympathy for these people, they knew exactly what they were doing, that’s the difference!!

    As for all the decent agents, lawyers, developers, etc, hopefully they will rise to the surface as fast as the bad one’s fall. If that happens then many stupid/greedy people may well at least be better informed, and stand a better chance of a reasonable outcome!!

  • #79651
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Great post, Goodstich!
    Put your helmet on, am right behind you…..ducking. 😆

  • #79652
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    Anonymous
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    On a previous post I asked mg a question. I wanted to know, as I’m sure many of us would, what his/her credentials(profession) are that they feel they are in a position to cast aspersions as to the character of buyers of Spanish property. He/she chose not to answer. I wonder why? 😕
    Mg, perhaps you could enlighten us now so that we could possibly have some respect for your (informed) opinions, if indeed they deserve any.

  • #79654
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    charlie

    yes, i’m expecting the ‘nobody held a gun to their head’, ‘it was their fault for not doing their homework’, ‘they should take responsibility for their own actions’……..yawn yawn.

    seems it’s fine by some, to be a liar, a cheat, a conman, but to make a mistake, to be naive, to trust the word of someone you have paid to act on your behalf…….no no no, that’s evil that is!

  • #79655
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    @goodstich44 wrote:

    charlie

    yes, i’m expecting the ‘nobody held a gun to their head’, ‘it was their fault for not doing their homework’, ‘they should take responsibility for their own actions’……..yawn yawn.

    seems it’s fine by some, to be a liar, a cheat, a conman, but to make a mistake, to be naive, to trust the word of someone you have paid to act on your behalf…….no no no, that’s evil that is!

    i’d don’t think anybody has suggested that the dvelopers, and agents who have behaved abismally are OK but that doesn’t absolve people of their responsibility either. Also, who are these people you are paying to act on your behalf? one of the flaws with the spanish property market is that the only person you pay to act for you is your legal adviser although many others will claim to be acting for you but get their commission from other parties, hence how can they ever really be acting for you.

  • #79656
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    I agree with what you say, even in the cases of people who were persuaded to buy two as the profit would pay for the first! But, 5 mortgages, that is different. To me it smacks of the people who are in debt and blame the bank for giving them a credit card. There used to be people posting on property forums discussing where they were going to buy next and how many properties they owned.

    5 Mortgages is…stupidity 🙄 and at the risk of sending some of you to sleep 😉 There has to be some personal responsibility somewhere

  • #79662
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    Anonymous
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    goodstich44 wrote:
    ralita

    How many decent people who have been greedy/made mistakes, have done so at the hands of liars and cheats, who make a living out of decieving and lies. At long last many of these are being found out through the media or suffering themselves for the mess they have had a big share in creating. I have no sympathy for these people, they knew exactly what they were doing, that’s the difference!!

    As for all the decent agents, lawyers, developers, etc, hopefully they will rise to the surface as fast as the bad one’s fall. If that happens then many stupid/greedy people may well at least be better informed, and stand a better chance of a reasonable outcome!!

    Goodstich, I am not talking about decent and honest persons who wanted to have a house in Spain or wherever the Sun is shining more than in UK.

    Everybody has dreams and I respect them.

    The real damage to the markets has been done by greedy people who used the bank leverage to buy much more that they could afford. Have you heard about McDonalds workers who bought 4 houses in California? Or London taxi drivers who bought 10 off-plan properties in Spain?

    These are the greedy/stupid/ignorant idiots I was refering to and because of them we are all going to pay from our pockets to save the banking systems.

  • #79664
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    ralita

    i think it’s often the case that mistakes are made through so many parts of the buying process? Who is the most stupid?, the stupid buyer, without enough knowledge of the market, the stupid bank, lending on a wing and a prayer (and they are supposed to be the experts?), and both listening to the stupid agent using a hopeless developer, often in cahoots with a dodgy lawyer!!

    I feel at the very least, the blame should be shared, and in my opinion tipped towards the so called experts in the system. Aifos, for instance, facing 200 cases. They probably wouldn’t be considered stupid or naive by some, but greedy, massive damage to Spain…….certainly.

  • #79665
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    Anonymous
    Participant
    goodstich44 wrote:
    I feel at the very least, the blame should be shared, and in my opinion tipped towards the so called experts in the system. Aifos, for instance, facing 200 cases. They probably wouldn’t be considered stupid or naive by some, but greedy, massive damage to Spain…….certainly.

    Ok, so let me give you the timeline for a purchase by a stupid buyer:

    – 2 people discuss over beer about somebody who got rich by flipping houses (it does not matter where, they have no idea about geography).
    They both decide that they also want to get rich. The only problem: they do not have money and do not have any idea where to start.

    – they go to Tesco and find magazines who tells them that places in Spain or Cyprus have appreciated by 25% in each of the last 4 years.

    – they get even more curious and go to some property porn exhibits where they are told that an investment is guaranteed to bring them lots of money.

    – they find some resorts in Spain in places they had never heard of (nor do they speak any word in Spanish) and the agents tell them that this is the up-and-coming area of Spain (you can put here Cyprus, Turkey, cape Verde, Morocco, Florida, any-other-flavor-of-the-moth).

    – they believe and go to the banks to get money to purchase.

    EVERYtHING SHOULD NORMALLY STOP HERE AS THE BANKS ARE SUPPOSED TO REFUSE LOANS FOR STUPID IDEAS!!!

    But no, people from banks now give them loans not for 1 but for 5 properties without asking about proof of income and other “small details”.

    This is how some idiots (who should have had their beers and not even think of investing) become “investors”.

    After a couple of months or at most years, they realize that the fairytale is over and come crying and whining. …

  • #79668
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @ralita wrote:

    EVERYtHING SHOULD NORMALLY STOP HERE AS THE BANKS ARE SUPPOSED TO REFUSE LOANS FOR STUPID IDEAS!!!

    But no, people from banks now give them loans not for 1 but for 5 properties without asking about proof of income and other “small details”.

    This is how some idiots (who should have had their beers and not even think of investing) become “investors”.

    as i said a few days ago the banks are imho the real cause of the problem that has been created.

  • #79669
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    Anonymous
    Participant
    The-Frank-Tavern wrote:
    ralita wrote:
    EVERYtHING SHOULD NORMALLY STOP HERE AS THE BANKS ARE SUPPOSED TO REFUSE LOANS FOR STUPID IDEAS!!!

    But no, people from banks now give them loans not for 1 but for 5 properties without asking about proof of income and other “small details”.

    This is how some idiots (who should have had their beers and not even think of investing) become “investors”.

    as i said a few days ago the banks are imho the real cause of the problem that has been created.

    I almost agree with you (90% agreement).

    But people share the blame.

  • #79670
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    ralita and katy, I am glad to see there are others who view the person who takes out 5 mortgages, in the same light as myself. Obviously goodstich44 is a very bitter person, maybe rightly so, but the cause of the bitterness does seemed to have left him with blinkers.

    Claire, you say “I wanted to know, as I’m sure many of us would, what his/her credentials(profession) are”
    Feel free to PM me anytime you wish, stating the reason for the enquiry and that any information which I would give would be in the strictest of confidence and not quoted at a later date. I can assure you of a response, however, I do not feel a public forum is the place to boast of one’s qualifications, business interests, etc.

    ” He/she chose not to answer. I wonder why? ” – I do not feel a public forum is the place to boast of one’s qualifications, business interests, etc.

    “Mg, perhaps you could enlighten us now so that we could possibly have some respect for your (informed) opinions, if indeed they deserve any.”
    Sorry, I do not seek respect from anyone. Respect is earned and rewarded. Nobody has to respect me or my observations, many will not, as many don’t like facts, only when it suits them.

  • #79672
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    “On a previous post I asked mg a question. I wanted to know, as I’m sure many of us would, what his/her credentials(profession) are that they feel they are in a position to cast aspersions as to the character of buyers of Spanish property. He/she chose not to answer. I wonder why?
    Mg, perhaps you could enlighten us now so that we could possibly have some respect for your (informed) opinions, if indeed they deserve any.”

    Why would you want to know Claire?
    Is there anyone who cares a Hell waht my “credentials(profession)” are/is?
    “in a position to cast aspersions” – So that is what one is accused of doing if they have an opinion and a mind of their own, otherwise, is it a sheep?

    Are we to assume that you know the “credentials(profession)” of all other contributors?
    From your comments it seems that you are sympathetic towards a person who suffers financially after taking out 5 mortgages?
    I don’t think you need to be a professional to see that that is not good sense, unless you have allowed for a blip in either the market or your personal situation.
    To me that is complete stupidity and obviously a live for today attitude and to Hell with the outcome, or who has to pick up the bills.

  • #79675
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    mg wrote

    Obviously goodstich44 is a very bitter person, maybe rightly so, but the cause of the bitterness does seemed to have left him with blinkers

    mg
    ……..the only blinkered people on here are those who refuse to accept that mistakes have been made on all sides. The difference being, the crime of some buyers is ‘making mistakes’ , and yes greed, or trusting those who were paid to work on their behalf. The crime of some agents is no mistake, far from it. Like the greedy crooked developers and lawyers well reported now, they knew exactly what they were doing, and are more than happy to use lack of regulation on their prey.

    When it comes to standing up for those who have been wronged, you have always made it clear on who’s side you stand, and it’s not the good guys, how blinkered is that!

  • #79678
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    Anonymous
    Participant
    goodstich44 wrote:
    When it comes to standing up for those who have been wronged, you have always made it clear on who’s side you stand, and it’s not the good guys, how blinkered is that!

    Sorry Goodstich, you have no understanding of the current situation.

    The crime of the agents and the greedy crooked developers are a by-product of the
    buyer greed and bank criminal behaviour.

    By the way, did you have an excellent understanding of the Spanish market before commiting to buy? Or you bought during a trip, without thinking too much about the consequences?

  • #79681
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    ralita, for what it is worth, I agree 100%.

    “the only blinkered people on here are those who refuse to accept that mistakes have been made on all sides. ” – No, mistakes are by the buyer, what the developer/agents did was possibly planned, knowing that there were very greedy punters out there.

    “The difference being, the crime of some buyers is ‘making mistakes'” – So if a developer takes your money and can’t come up with the goods, for whatever the reason, should we assume it is a crime?
    If so, if someone takes out 5 mortgages and can’t come up with the goods (repayment of the loans), shouldn’t that aslo be considered a crime?

    “The crime of some agents is no mistake, far from it. ” – Maybe, but the stupidity of some buyers is also no mistake, that is apparent.

    “Like the greedy crooked developers and lawyers well reported now, they knew exactly what they were doing, and are more than happy to use lack of regulation on their prey. ” – Taking out 5 mortgages leads me to believe that the borrower knew exactly what they were doing also. Borrowing beyond their means.

    “When it comes to standing up for those who have been wronged, you have always made it clear on who’s side you stand,” – No side, just see it from both sides (not blinkered).

    “and it’s not the good guys, how blinkered is that!” – So someone who takes out 5 mortgages that they can’t pay back is a good guy?
    I am getting to understand why you have got yourself into the situation you have.

  • #79685
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Mr. Goodstich, let’s see some of your old posts:

    1) ” 4-5 years ago, on by the time we did put a deposit down, only a few months later, the prices had risen by several thousand pounds, so it seemed a pretty good bet. , so it all seemed a reasonable gamble to take, and prices then were going up much faster on CDS than anywhere else, including england!”

    2) “our idea was to buy a good place for renting, then one day sell it, and buy in an area of spain that we like”

    3) “we apparantly, never had a bank guarantee issued (aifos build) i have only recently found this out from our current lawyer in spain (agent recommended). “

    And many others.

    Sorry, you bought during boom because you wanted to make loads of money. This was a gamble and you lost because you did not know that you never had bank guarantee (are you always so reckless with your MONEY?) and had the agent’s lawyer.

    You really are a case study for how NOT to “invest” money…

  • #79686
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    ralita/mg

    …….and you have just proven how little you really understand about my situation and many others no doubt. But then you don’t really want to, do you.

  • #79687
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    Anonymous
    Participant
    goodstich44 wrote:
    ralita/mg

    …….and you have just proven how little you really understand about my situation and many others no doubt. But then you don’t really want to, do you.

    What is not to understand??

    You wanted to gamble by speculating on property in Spain and you lost.

    Without gamblers, greedy developers and agents would have not existed.
    They developed as by-product of mass hysteria.

    Why didn’t you buy something already built? You gambled that the off-plan product would increase by 20%-30% by the time it was ready and you have pocketed the 20%-30% difference as free money after selling to the next punter.

  • #79691
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    HI
    I REMOVED THE POSTING AT THE REQUEST OF CLAIRE AND KATY.

    Frank 8)

  • #79692
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    mg, I think anyone who took out 5 mortgages on off plan properties in Spain was greedy, naive, gullible. To be honest ,I’m amazed anyone could get 5 mortgages. One is enough!!

  • #79693
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I sincerely hope Mark removes your venomous post Frank. A breach of confidentiality I would say. An appalling outburst.

  • #79694
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    katy
    Spectator

    Frank, bad taste, really over the top!

  • #79697
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    JUST THE TRUTH LADIES BUT HAVE NO HESTATION IN REMOVING THE POSTING FOLLOWING YOUR COMMENTS 😆

    Frank 8)

  • #79698
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Claire, stil await your reply to:
    “Why would you want to know Claire?
    Is there anyone who cares a Hell what my “credentials(profession)” are/is?

    “in a position to cast aspersions” – So that is what one is accused of doing if they have an opinion and a mind of their own, otherwise, is it a sheep?

    Are we to assume that you know the “credentials(profession)” of all other contributors?
    From your comments it seems that you are sympathetic towards a person who suffers financially after taking out 5 mortgages? “

  • #79700
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    You know what mg, I’ve changed my mind. I couldn’t give a t*** who /what you are. Just carry on writing your usual insults.

  • #79701
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Tut, tut, toys out of pram?
    But what about all the others you speak for?
    “as I’m sure many of us would”

    “in a position to cast aspersions” – So that is what one is accused of doing if they have an opinion and a mind of their own, otherwise, is it a sheep?

    Are we to assume that you know the “credentials(profession)” of all other contributors?

    Don’t you answer questions when asked for some reason?
    If fact and honesty insults you, so be it.

  • #79702
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Investment Fact

    There is two types of dept you may choose to take on.

    CLASS 1 Bad dept,= credit card /H.P on car loans etc.

    CLASS 2 Good dept to take on where the intention is to turn this loan into a profit making situation.
    Use other peoples money is what possibly all or most business do everyday.( why use your own tax paid money)Keep capital to ensure liquid assets.
    This Lady has posted freely that she has 5 mortgages and has been condemed without even looking into reasons why she may have had these mortgages.
    Could be a business parner that conned her.Could be a creditor that may have gone out of business owing a subsantial amount.
    Could be she got herself a bad deal and instead of going belly up she is fighting her way through the mess.

    I considered a friend mad when he took on 6 mortgages for buy to let properties at £60,000 each property only 6 years ago.
    Each property is now worth £200,000 and not only is he enjoying a healthy increasing rental return he is made for life.
    Dont always frown on those that have the balls to go for it even if at times it goes wrong as it sounds soooo smug. 😉

    Frank 8)

  • #79705
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “why she may have had these mortgages. ” – Ummm, to buy the properties and one would assume in the hope of making money.

    “Could be a creditor that may have gone out of business owing a subsantial amount.” – Could be she has already told us why:
    “Our mortgage has doubled in the 2 years” “This means that we have been trying to service 5 mortgages with hardly any income.” ” There are tenants in our apartment paying 450 euros per month” ” Our monthly mortgage payments are 923 euros. “
    Think that answers it.

    “Each property is now worth £200,000” – Is that valued, estimated or has he sold and is sitting on the cash. Remember BTL properties are plumetting, only last week one company with 200+ in portfolio went bust.
    Let us assume £140,000 profiy on each and assuming (just for making things easy) there are no further debts on the properties. Deduct CG and multiply by 6
    “and not only is he enjoying a healthy increasing rental return he is made for life. ” – Not much of a life then.
    Also, was he under-renting as he is now bucking the trend by showing increases.

  • #79707
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    to the decent agents, lawyers, developers, i say ‘good for you’. This is about ‘the others’

    our ‘gamble’, looked a good one, back in 2002. Before we bought, we watched for several months the state of market at the time, we built up a good relationship with an agent less that half a mile from my factory. It all looked good. We spoke to fellow buyers, prices were then rocketing. Why wouldn’t we buy?. We took out a single modest mortgage.

    just frank wrote

    Dont always frown on those that have the balls to go for it even if at times it goes wrong as it sounds soooo smug.

    ……..but it’s so easy to be smug, if you don’t want to see the truth isn’t it.

    Had we dealt with good business people from the start, as we have in the uk when buying residential and commercial, our gamble would still be ok today. Prices were that cheap in 2002. Like anyone with their head screwed on, we took much of the agent speak with a pinch of salt, and relied on the work of a UK lawyer, set up to deal with purchases in Spain, to make sure the agents were straight. It was like your kitchen fitter, recommending a plumber. You assume someone you think is doing a good job would recommend someone of a similar caliber, for the sake of their own reputation. How would we know any other lawyer would have been any better? (much easier now of course with current info’ available)

    So, that was our mistake, getting involved with a bad agent and lawyer, who used an even worse developer……..but to be fair, at that time, that developer had not the bad name they have today.

    Had the system not been so full of liars and cheats, our gamble to buy would have been ok. But that’s it, had the system not been so full of liars and cheats at every level, would Spain be in much of the current mess?. I don’t think so.

    i can sleep at night, knowing we did our best, we followed the rules, we had the balls to take a gamble. We were let down by professional liars and cheats at so many levels. I don’t stoop to that level, but we were let down by people who do. It hasn’t ruined my life, i gambled a modest amount, i’ve moved on to other things, but i’m not to blind to see who’s really to blame, unlike some!

    Those who got caught in the same way, and those who stand up for decency, will get this i’m sure. And ‘the others’??, will probably take this apart and add their own spin. Why would i be surprised? we had the misfortune to be involved with people of similar attitude for far to long. Wrong then, and wrong now!!

  • #79710
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Goodstich I have full sympathy with you, I would not consider you an “investor”. I just cannot see your situation and Ms 5 mortgages as being the same.

    We were considering moving to the Florida’s gulf coast some years ago. We visited a property exhibition. We asked about visa situation. The agent told us no problem just leave the for the Bahamas every 6 months and stay 24 hours…WRONG. Another agent told us if we bought 3 houses we could then get a permanant visa as owning a business, WRONG (I have heard many did do this!). However, we did not take this as true and did our research. Point I am trying to make is before committing oneself to 5 mortgages (or any other investment), there needs to be some investigation.

  • #79711
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Goodstich (politely?) did not ram home the real bones of his situation.
    An illegal build, no LFO, no Bank Guarantee, flat size far smaller than originally agreed, then flat sold on behind his back by the developer and offered a much smaller one as an alternative for the same money, agent in UK now trying to say they never received his original deposit money.
    Give us all a break – investor or not – Goodstich has been screwed royally by everybody – please don’t make HIM out to be the bad, stupid, greedy guy, it turns my stomach. Am sure he would loved to have completed on his orginal apartment if everything had been legal and the product true to the original spec.
    Knowing all the above, who would want to pay more money and complete? It’s nothing to do with him being an investor or not. Get a grip everybody.

  • #79713
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    charlie

    thanks, i’ve grown tired of ‘ramming home the real bones’ just for those with similar attitudes to the low life we dealt with, to take apart and twist to suit themselves. That’s why i said decent people and those who have been or who are in a similar situation will ‘get it’. the rest?, well they wont listen, they never have!

    katy

    it’s ok, i realise you are not comparing my situation with someone who has taken out 5 mortgages, they have their own story. Anyone doing that is missing my point, deliberately or not?

  • #79715
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    m.g
    £60,000 mortgage on buildings with a market value of £200,000+ is hardly sub prime . 😯
    Call it a gut feeling and only my opinion of course but the £750,00 each per month and the capital appreciation in an area with shortage of housing to buy or rent will I am sure be something that even the most astute and seasoned investor like you will find it hard argue against.

    With regards to the Lady that started this forum,if she has been just greedy then of course then its tough and is as simple as that.however as I posted it could be for many reasons and I try to listen before having a dig.( its perhaps the support of the underdog that those that know me will understand 😉 )

    With regards to Goodstich situation being in anyway linked to someone that has 5 mortgages is of course stupid to even be an issue of debate.
    Its clear that no one would have contemplated buying a property and expect to loose money as that would be fool hardy.
    Of course anyone would have wished to invest wisely and human nature alone it would be nice to make a profit even if it were to pass it on to the family.
    Its is however beyond doupt that those that were involved cases like Goodstich should be brought to justice and something that many will confirm I am trying to do everyday.
    For that I get labelled by some as being on the other side or worse is something that I get confused about but is something that is a problem for them.
    Thankfully the longer I am around the more get to know the real me. 😉

    Frank 8)

    Is that better ladies 😳

  • #79717
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “market value of £200,000+ is hardly sub prime . ” – Did anyone say it was sub-prime?
    The £200K market valouation, I assume that it is using comparables, or it is a bank valuation, or just what one hopes or expects to get?

    Assuming that is £750 per month, is there a good covenant?
    The capital appreciation, it must be in one of the few parts of the Country where properties re on the increase.
    There again, at £200K, what stock are they?

    Assuming a monthly repayment on £60K of £450 and no outgoings such as maintenance, insurance, wear and tear, voids, etc., to be paid. A monthly profit of £300 on each. By 6 = £1800
    Can’t see how that is a “made for life” situation?
    Worth selling the six for the £1.2m and investing in a subtantial premises where a FRI lease could be offered.

  • #79719
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    katy wrote:
    We visited a property exhibition. We asked about visa situation. The agent told us no problem just leave the for the Bahamas every 6 months and stay 24 hours…WRONG. Another agent told us if we bought 3 houses we could then get a permanant visa as owning a business, WRONG (I have heard many did do this!). However, we did not take this as true and did our research. Point I am trying to make is before committing oneself to 5 mortgages (or any other investment), there needs to be some investigation.

    If you invest 1 milion dollars in SOME regions of USA, you might get a green card.

    These regions do not include Florida coasts or California…

    So the agents were lying to you big time.

  • #79720
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @ralita wrote:

    So the agents were lying to you big time.

    Oh dear, now you’ve done it Ralita…….

    We’re probably going to get another earfull of

    Let’s hope they’re all busy showing properties this weekend …..

  • #79721
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    charlie wrote:
    ralita wrote:
    So the agents were lying to you big time.

    Oh dear, now you’ve done it Ralita…….

    Let’s hope they’re all busy showing properties this weekend …..

    Well, I do not have much experience regarding the agents in Spain, but I have some experience regarding the ones in Florida as I bought once and sold once over there.

    During the boom times they used to be the biggest liars and rampers on the planet Earth. My recent contacts with them revealed a much more
    buyer-friendly atitude.

  • #79723
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    m.g.
    While I appreciate that sort of income per month and capital appreciation of £140,000 on each property in that time frame is simple pocket expences for such a seasoned investor as you but to normal people its not to bad a result.
    He didnt use any of his own capital to obtain and the values I have put on them are well under market for that area approx 10 to 15% as market conditions should encourage us to be cautiuos with values of most things at the moment.
    As you say he can always use getting on for the million pound profit and get advice from a real expert like you regarding C.G.

    Frank 8)

  • #79724
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “he can always use getting on for the million pound profit”
    140K x 6 – CG – expenses and costs, is not near £1m

    Assuming that is £750 per month, is there a good covenant?

    There again, at £200K, what stock are they?

  • #79725
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    m.g
    Well spotted and have to say your mathematics are simply amazing.
    As I said the valuation is 10 to 15% under what is being obtained for these properties.
    Lets call it £800 to £850,000 net to re-invest and someone with your experience would I am sure be able to show him a way to re-use this amount or is this amount not worth your time and effort as if I am right you only deal with the mega money deals we only dream of.
    Re-read Cathys posting while you have pulled out some snippets and turned them one way I tend to consider that they tell only part of the situation and leave it on hold before all the facts are explained.
    Anyway whichever I am sure she will join with me and be in awe of the experience,understanding and vital advice you bring to the forum.

    Frank 8)

    Have a good weekend.

  • #79728
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Assuming that is £750 per month, is there a good covenant?

    There again, at £200K, what stock are they?

    “As I said the valuation is 10 to 15% under what is being obtained for these properties. “
    The £200K market valuation, I assume that it is using comparables, or it is a bank valuation, or just what one hopes or expects to get?

    “someone with your experience would I am sure be able to show him a way to re-use this amount” – No, I would never act in an advisory capacity for the financial market.

    “or is this amount not worth your time and effort” – Depends on the yields which could be returned. A single £1 is worth time and effort.

    “as if I am right you only deal with the mega money deals we only dream of.” – If you dream of £150K then you are correct.

  • #79732
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    m.g
    I have to say that I am no where near your level in the world of finance however here goes and I hope I dont embarrass myself and no where near as intellegent as most that you have spoken to on the forum.

    m,g
    (1) Assuming that is £750 per month, is there a good covenant?

    Frank
    Lost me here with the boardroom talk?
    £750,000 per month per property net of all costs including mortgage payments on a 6 months tenancy,is that good ?

    m.g
    (2) There again, at £200K, what stock are they?

    Frank
    Again way over my head ? Mmmm they are houses. 🙂 How am I doing?

    m.g
    (3) “As I said the valuation is 10 to 15% under what is being obtained for these properties. “
    The £200K market valuation, I assume that it is using comparables, or it is a bank valuation, or just what one hopes or expects to get?

    Frank
    Right think this is one that I understand I think 😕
    One 2 doors away has just sold for £229,000 and exchange of contracts on another for £235,000 last week
    Is this what you would consider the valuation of these stocks ?(getting the hang of this 🙂

    m.g
    (4) someone with your experience would I am sure be able to show him a way to re-use this amount” – No, I would never act in an advisory capacity for the financial market.

    Frank
    Now I am confused as far as many can see you advise of the forum on this very topic almost everyday.
    ( even to what my friend could do with his £1.2 M)Guess I am not to bright after all. 😥 )

    m.g
    ( 5) or is this amount not worth your time and effort” – Depends on the yields which could be returned. A single £1 is worth time and effort.

    Frank
    Think I understand this one ?The yeild is the return you get on amount invested.
    If you had 5 mortages/lending on 5 properties/stocks on interest payments of 4% and the property or stocks go up at 10 to 15% and rental income is in the figures someone like you could work out the yeild.thats amazing;
    Wouldnt have a clue myself ,have to admitt ,I am in awe.

    m.g
    (6 )”as if I am right you only deal with the mega money deals we only dream of.” – If you dream of £150K then you are correct.

    Frank
    Gosh I am suprised that you would deal with such a paltry amount when your comment that my friend have made over £800,000 in 6 years was hardly life changing. To me its a bloody fortune. 🙂

    Frank
    Great that this forum can be of interest to someone with all of your experience and gob smacked that you would even respond to someone as like me. would you be so kind as to cast your views on investments some of us have properties in Spain.
    I take it you have or have had interest in that sector.

    I do appreciate that you must be busy but I for one find it hard to understand the copy and pasting with replies that while you understand in the high finance world confuses the man in the street like me.
    Perhaps and I hate ask do you think you could make allowances.
    On a good point at least I understand your grammer and spelling as its worse than mine.( no offence 🙂
    No doupt like my one secretary you have 8 to 10 to correct everything before it goes out as the last thing we would want to look is a complete idiot.

    Thakns Again

    Frank 8)

  • #79734
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “Assuming that is £750 per month, is there a good covenant? ” – Strength and reliability of tenant, together with terms of lease.
    Not boardroom talk, just something any investor tends to be aware of.

    “£750,000 per month per property net of all costs including mortgage payments on a 6 months tenancy,is that good ?
    ” – Are you saying that the rental income per property is £750,000

    “As I said the valuation is 10 to 15% under what is being obtained for these properties. ” – So not true valuation then, just what the neighbours have sold for.

    “Now I am confused as far as many can see you advise of the forum on this very topic almost everyday. ” – Never advise, just comment and state opinion. How can you advise when you don’t know all circumstances?

    “Gosh I am suprised that you would deal with such a paltry amount when your comment that my friend have made over £800,000 in 6 years was hardly life changing.” – If the yields are there,it is worth dealing @ £100K
    Have never said it wasn’t life changing, just quoted yourself “”made for life” How can I not agree with it not being life changing, when I know nothing about the person?
    Ever worked out what you need to have a good secure life for the next 40 years or so?

    “Great that this forum can be of interest to someone with all of your experience” – Agreed, just a pity some others are not prepared to learn from it, as I do.

    “kind as to cast your views on investments some of us have properties in Spain.
    I take it you have or have had interest in that sector. “
    I have interests and no, would never advise.

    A PA

    Your welcome.

  • #79736
    Profile photo of mike
    mike
    Participant

    @Just Frank wrote:

    m.g
    I have to say that I am no where near your level in the world of finance however here goes and I hope I dont embarrass myself and no where near as intellegent as most that you have spoken to on the forum.

    You know Frank, just being a wonderful person is enough, we don’t expect you to be intelligent too. However, here are some tips on how to sound like you know what you are talking about when it comes to investing.

    Say “yield” a lot. If no one else has mentioned the word then just throw it in there by asking what the yield is and when you get a reply look at the notes you just made and then nod and grimace (you’re used to better)

    Cashflow. If something you own is looking dodgy then claim bad cash flow, in that way the investment was never a mistake, it was those creditors unable to pay you on time.

    Concept. If you need some time to understand something ask about the concept, they will waffle on for a bout 20 minutes while you try and figure out what is puzzling you.

    LTBH. Never actually do this but talk about it a lot, people like to hear it.

    Remember, when talking investment Macro is not a supermarket, it’s something to do with the economy. Try to look pensive, if things are looking good at the moment you should say that the macro view isn’t so rosey, and vice versa. That always slays them.

    Oh, finally, add a nought onto all figures when discussing business. I do, 100% of the time

  • #79737
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    😆 😆

  • #79744
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Mike
    Damn 😥 .I tried so hard to raise my game and get into the world of high finance. 😥
    Those words you posted mean nothing to me and goes to show that my best is not good enough to get to m.gs level. 😥
    See you noticed the extra 0 which I threw in my excitment in thinking I cracked it. 😀 Is that where you sussed me. 😥 or when I missed out inflation.
    What got me is the valuoation?(is that how its spelt in the city) I always thought a valuation is what someone is prepared to pay,it seems not. 😕
    What do I do now ?when someone posts.
    I notice that these city guys tell everyone how stupid every one is and what they should and should not do and like a politicition when you ask a direct question they come out with the very words you mentioned never a direct answer and sounds like waffle to me. You know bit like the answers I received,hated to question them as didnt like to look show how much out of my depth I was.
    Is an anorak a term I should have explained to me and earlier on someone posted to–er is that a city word. 😕
    Any help would be appreciated and have to get back to work on my spelleng so I can understand these guys even better.

    Frank 8)
    Must get me best suit on tomorrow for one of these city meetings as my doctor has told me I am very impotent. 😕 To think of that? what a nice thing to say.

  • #79747
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Confessions please. Who are the “city guys”?
    Frank, if a typo upsets you so much, please watch the grammar.
    “Cathys posting” and “to Goodstich situation” and “fool hardy” and “didnt”.
    Regarding spelling, what are “expences” and what is “cautiuos”?
    Petty isn’t it?

  • #79748
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    m.g

    Well at least we can say were on the same level in one thing then 😆
    Can see cautious is wrong,
    Emmmm . Oh bugger will get the secretary to check it tomorrow.

    Yours working overtime then ?

    Frank 8)

    Found another 😆 Expenses

  • #79749
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Very entertaining!. 😆 😆

  • #79984
    Profile photo of DrRobert
    DrRobert
    Participant

    Just flipping through the replies to Cathy’s post, we seem to have gone down various blind alleys here.

    A few suggestions, based on your original post;

    When looking for tenants for properties in the UK or Spain, you have to keep on till you get one. Have a look at what other rental property is currently available and try and go and see some of them-either via the auspices of a friendly agent or by posing as a prospective tenant. How does yours compare, price wise, condition, location etc? Renting is more competitive than it’s ever been. Reduce the rent and update what you’re offering. Freshly decorate, add extras that look good but needn’t cost much.

    By and large, people only look for rentals for a very short space of time. So, new people will see your properties every time you advertise. Keep advertising, use agents, ask around and They Will Come. Drop the price. Some income is better than none!

    Another thought; could you sell one property (even at a loss) and use the capital to help with the remaining four mortgages?

    Talking to lenders is always a good idea. As has been said, they don’t want to re-possess and will do what they can to help.

    Maybe you could post more details here? How many properties are where? (And apologies if you’ve already told us-I’ve just skipped through some of the off-topic rants!)

  • #79990
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    There was a posting on the subject and if I remember well Draken or some other lawyer had mentioned that Spanish banks are chasing people through Experian etc. I would like to say that Its not nice to kick people when they are down. We all make mistakes in all walks of life its part of growing up and learning, clever are the people who learn as much as they can from other peoples experience. She only seeked advise.

    We all would like to do well in our lives and we should not despise people in doing so. She tried to move forward & perhaps secure her future so it went bad, so what !!!!!!!!! The shame is in not trying and sit and do nothing in our lives for fear of failure.

    Hopefully, she would have learnt from this experience and come out as a better person.

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