Can the press successfully sell a "bottom"?

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This topic contains 27 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 6 years, 6 months ago.

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  • #55621
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    A bottom of real estate prices, I mean! At least that’s what it looks to me like they’re trying to do here: http://www.elperiodicomediterraneo.com/noticias/noticia.asp?pkid=562507

    These real estate industry talking heads are asserting that “this is the moment,” it’s the big chance to buy at the absolute bottom, prices will definitely never fall a penny more. If you don’t buy now, you’re losing out on the big opportunity, etc. They are so definite about prices not falling a penny more. Is this an attempt to create a self-fulfilling prophecy, i.e., to create a bottom? Maybe my Spanish isn’t good enough to really understand the article. I don’t understand why short selling is dismissed as a non-option, we do it all the time in the U.S. One-sided reporting like this is hollow and unconvincing, at least to me. Do you think they’ll successfully “create” a bottom by proclaiming it, though? Does Spain work that way?

    Sherry

  • #98633
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @SherryfromSeattle wrote:

    These real estate industry talking heads are asserting that “this is the moment,” it’s the big chance ……

    Do you think they’ll successfully “create” a bottom by proclaiming it, though?

    Sherry

    They’ve been “proclaiming” a “bottom” for years now. The record is so old they keep having to fetch the duster.

    Everything that falls out of the real estate industry’s mouth is just a four-lettered word. HYPE.

  • #98634
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Sherry, people with vested interests trying to talk up the market is nothing new. I did in fact highlight this last year in this post:

    viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4269

    In the year since then prices have continued to fall and we have seen frequent articles of the “Now is the best time to buy” variety.

    Most independent observers believe this market still has some way to fall. My own belief is that it will only stabilize once we see another 25% or so off prices. That said, the truth is that nobody really knows how the market will pan out.

  • #98635
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @SherryfromSeattle wrote:

    Do you think they’ll successfully “create” a bottom by proclaiming it, though? Does Spain work that way?

    Sherry

    They might create a bottom.

    The only problem is that the bottom seems to fall under everything in Europe.

    Hold your $ dry, they might get to parity with Euro. Combine this with a sure certain fall in Euro prices and your $ will go much further.

  • #98636
    Profile photo of peterhun
    peterhun
    Participant

    The bottom of the market will come when absolutely nobody gives a damn about it. If you are discussing it, debating whether to invest, its not the bottom. It will happen after you invest.

  • #98637
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Laughable some of those old threads πŸ˜† The Russians are always coming, locals were saying this before I joined this forum. If they are buying up all the expensive property how come most of eg. La Zagaleta seems to be up for sale!

    Did anyone read the comments below the link to the spanish article? The Spanish don’t believe it either.

  • #98638
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Agents and developers saying that now is a good time to buy, that prices can’t drop any further. What else would you expect them to say? Hardly news.

    The fact is that nobody knows what will happen. It’s all just opinion.

    If for one think that now might be a good time to buy prime and A-grade property. Don’t be deceived by average asking prices and official figures – the big discounts exist if you look around. I’ve set up a forum to focus on this question, and examine specific examples.

    Which is not to say that prices won’t go down further. But never expect the really good stuff to be given away.

    Mark

  • #98639
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @mark wrote:

    The fact is that nobody knows what will happen. It’s all just opinion.

    The trouble is Mark, re. Sherry’s link, the “just an opinion” is not an honest one.

    They know it, we know it – it is just an attempt at hype. An honest opinion I wouldn’t mind.

  • #98640
    Profile photo of peterhun
    peterhun
    Participant

    “But never expect the really good stuff to be given away.”

    Define ‘good’ and ‘given’. Its relative of course.

  • #98641
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    What was that saying:

    Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, so today is….?

    Well it is the bottom of the market maybe, but then again maybe it is the peak this year as prices fall still further, nobody knows, but I think Mark is right; the good stuff (real quality /great area) which is commonly already down 25% as a minimum, will not be given away(gifted) any further, that market is not going to fall 50% peak to trough.

    And as such there are different segments, so are there different timings and levels of activity in each, but… people have never stopped buying in every single month during the past 20 years I have been around the CDS and they will still be buying every month for the next 20 years also.

    That’s not hype, just a plain simple fact, and as to the level of buyers, well that depends on a whole bunch of other economic / worldwide factors. It isn’t just a Spanish property issue. It is about disposable income and a general inclination to spend not hoard.

  • #98652
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Chris McCarthy wrote:

    What was that saying:
    Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, so today is….?

    I prefer: “If you have one eye on yesterday, and one eye on tomorrow, you’re going to be cockeyed today”. πŸ˜€

    @Chris McCarthy wrote:

    Well it is the bottom of the market maybe, but then again maybe it is the peak ……….

    And as such there are different segments, so are there different timings and levels of activity in each …………

    as to the level of buyers, well that depends on a whole bunch of other economic / worldwide factors………..

    Chris – you once asked: “why can’t I use 20 words instead of hundreds to say something!”
    “Dunno” is my answer! πŸ™

    @Chris McCarthy, a little while ago, wrote:

    I don’t paint the place so rosy or stay all upbeat and positive all the time, I do have a long, long, long statement here or there about the upside to counter an argument, but I try to keep it on thread and appropriate. and hopefully not to often, I even get bored repeating my mantra over again every couple of months.

    Chris, you used to moan about/accuse Goodstich of doing the exact same thing (but in his case, concerning the negatives) πŸ˜†

    Come on Chris, liven them up a bit – you’re getting a bit ‘same old, same old’…..how about how many properties you’ve sold this week compared to last week, or how many new properties have come onto your books in the last month (under a million euros), or what percentage of purchasers have said they’re willing to accept offers?
    Now that would be telling us something πŸ™‚

    Another one for you: “God made the world round so we would never be able to see too far down the road” – Isak Dinesen

  • #98653
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Chris McCarthy wrote:

    It isn’t just a Spanish property issue. It is about disposable income and a general inclination to spend not hoard.

    What you say was true for the last 10 years.

    Not anymore. People will have much less disposablke income.

    Read Telegraph article which implied that the middle class families will be Β£3000/year off due to tax increases. Combine this with future interest rate increases which will raise the mortgage rates.

    People will be much less adventurous or will be forced to be much less adventurous by the lack of liquidity.

    OK, there will be people moving to Spain and will me billionaire who do not care about price oscillations but the holiday home market will be dead unless prices come down everywhere around the Mediteranean Sea.

  • #98658
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    Come on Chris, liven them up a bit – you’re getting a bit ‘same old, same old’…..how about how many properties you’ve sold this week compared to last week, or how many new properties have come onto your books in the last month (under a million euros), or what percentage of purchasers have said they’re willing to accept offers?
    Now that would be telling us something

    I know Charlie, but am trying to be a different, a touch oblique here and there, Angie got me spooked about my behaviour / position and attitude on the forum, and am trying to behave myself and only pop in now and again, loss of confidence I think it is, or overly keen to be balanced and non confrontational.

    Perhaps I should go back to 1,000 word posts! Or at least try using some of these Smilies here goes… πŸ™„

    First seven days of April the guys sold 5 properties and looked like they were going to light a fire, but then people started lighting fires in Greece, other people started talking about the PIGS in really serious terms, such as Spain is going to go bankrupt, and being the 5th largest European economy, a few folks rightly became a bit tentative. 😯

    Then along came a Volcano with all its ash, that kept everyone away from the coast not just for the 7 days it was shut down but until they could rearrange their schedules and flights etc, and lo … there was a General Election in the UK, with precipitous falls in the stock markets worldwide, loss of confidence in the Euro, ohhh, and jeeze, well it was like being back to post credit crunch months really. πŸ™

    But they have sold since that time another 10 or so properties, when really had all of this not blown up, they were very confident that they would have sold 20+ inside the month of April. πŸ™„

    However, we have been here before, we have sold properties when the rate was 1.03 to the Β£, we have sold when the world was literally about to turn out the lights it seemed, we have sold when banks globally were going bust, it just takes people who want to buy. And as I said I think, there are always people who do. πŸ™‚

    As for sellers under €1 million, I think they have taken on @ 20 properties to market in the magazine and proactively to their database in the month, they are very careful about the properties that they take on now, it is not a question of listing 240 a month anymore, the market has been down 90% so only list 10% of the old total is more the motto I think. ❗

    But very keen and committed vendors they are, when you ask how many purchasers are willing to accept offers, i think you mean vendors, so if that is the case, experience says that 100% of people are willing to accept some sort of offer, and 95% of vendors actually know their bottom line today, and don’t prevaricate, but I don’t think buyers truly get to the bottom line until they really put their credit card on the table and say here is how “serious” I am, I will buy, and here is my proof of real intent. 😐

    So… we now hope (there is always hope Charlie) that over the remaining days of the month, the Greece crisis recedes, the threat to Spanish bankruptcy disappears, the Con / Lib pact honeymoon builds up to be a really sexy one, and Sterling gets stronger. πŸ˜€

    It is not just about Spain, it is about sooo much more.

    But you know what, there are people who come on here stating without doubt and absolutely categorically, that today is the worst time to buy, tomorrow will be just as bad, and 10 years from now too… Or state 50 criteria fulfilling conditions to buy, that will never happen, and they will never buy, most have no intention of every buying really, and I am fine with that… its a free world and forum…

    However the guys in Spain believe that before the end of the year, that they will have a 20 sale month, a 30 sale month and from there the sky will be the limit.

    and I wouldn’t bet against them, they are very committed and very happy they are on the right track and dealing with people who are also very serious about buying… 8)

    Though am real happy to see that these days there is a real balance between listing vendors properties for sale and actual sales, that is quite healthy, it will never be like the UK because nobody lists exclusively at all, so many people might sell through 10 other different sources.

    Does that answer your question?

    And you being the font of all knowledge… is there a spell check function anywhere?

    And I can’t quite figure how to do the quote thing now the site has changed.

  • #98660
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Chris McCarthy wrote:

    And I can’t quite figure how to do the quote thing now the site has changed.

    Interesting stuff Chris.

    In your experience, what type of property is selling at the moment? Is it Villas or flats, in what price range? Or is there no real pattern?

    I fixed the quote box for you. You just have to click the quote button once, then start typing your reply.

    Mark

  • #98661
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    @mark wrote:

    @Chris McCarthy wrote:
    And I can’t quite figure how to do the quote thing now the site has changed.

    Interesting stuff Chris.
    In your experience, what type of property is selling at the moment? Is it Villas or flats, in what price range? Or is there no real pattern?
    I fixed the quote box for you. You just have to click the quote button once, then start typing your reply.
    Mark

    There isn’t a real pattern no, and I think that is a good thing.

    The sales have varied from a golf course Villa reduced from an initial €1.5m 12 months or so ago now down in stages to €900k, to a country Finca in the €550k range, to several newer projects that have been heavily reduced in the mid 220- 250k range, and the rest in reduced resales priced between 130k to 180k, I forget what was in the first week of April but I think there were several higher priced properties / villas.

    Interestingly, the biggest web search item at present is not for apartments, it is for Villa’s and that really hasn’t happened before, and of course in pure €’s that is where the biggest falls have been and between 2004-2008 they became the thing most out of peoples reach I feel.

    The guys show a number of developer projects with supposedly great finance deals of 80% mortgage and one or two at some form of 100% cobbled together deal, because these are what a number of people really do understandably insist on seeing, but they don’t sell any or let’s say many of them really. They are not truly what people want, and often they don’t offer or compare in real value to a good – great resale, if you want to use, live, holiday in and rent the property.

    People do seem to understand that just because something says 100% finance, and whatever package that goes with that, it doesn’t actually make it a great buy, and well the guys are just not into telling you that this is going like “hot cakes” and “will go up in value” by the end of the month, or at least that’s what they tell me, one supposes the odd one might say it if he saw the right thing and the client also felt that it was a really good buy, and because at some point, that property will be on the market one supposes, so don’t hang me if it does happen on occasion.

    And actually it could happen next week! I remember now someone talking of a nice project on a golf course that may well be worth promoting heavily fairly shortly with very creative financing.

    Today’s buyer seems to figure, certain properties cannot or at worst are most unlikely to fall further, but there could always be a risk. They look for real / tangible / evident price reductions.

    They have been thinking about buying for a long time, perhaps having been sagely reticent to buy from 2005 onwards, or it is just their time, they don’t want to hang on forever, they don’t talk investment, as Angie rightly often points out, at 10% on the way and 10% on the way out, and with the up and down nature of the Euro, that is a hard thing to say at all right now.

    These people want to own a home on the Costa del Sol, because they can, because they want to, because it is their preferred choice against other areas or countries, and almost always they know the area.

    And because I think I am right in the last 10 sales I think there were just 3/4 Brits the rest were Spanish or other nationals.

    The reason why the guys there feel they will move up in sales is because of their nationality mix, product and price mix, and because each time the world wide economic hysteria calms a little bit there is a lot more confidence.

    I am not there all the time, but when I am there, the people I see making the decision to buy all look very happy, very sensible, practical and have all their ducks in a row financially, but most importantly they do seem to have done a lot of research so are very knowledgeable also.

    These are nice people to represent. Again, I am sure there examples that would buck this trend, they can’t all fit this criteria and at one end of the scale there are some who would be aggressively seeking an “absolute steal deal” who are disappointed with the guys and are therefore often rude and difficult to deal with, and some vendors at another end who think all their viewings are completely unable or interested to buy and what on earth are the guys doing bringing them to view. But that has always been the case.

    So, back to 1,000 word rambling posts and oh… just remembered I should throw in an emoticon πŸ˜€ here and there, so… no pattern, except perhaps that this is a pattern in itself; what will hopefully be over a number of years, all sorts of people, looking for all sorts of property at different prices, from all sorts of places really.

    They have shown properties to in excess of 100+ people a month over the whole year except for Jan I think, this has been a mixture of other agents bringing them clients, this is quite a high percentage and their own direct clients.

    Sadly they don’t sell many other agents clients, these agents are often not actually what you would really call an estate agent, they seem to want to dive into a property and get out in 5 minutes and go off to the next one, which is not very satisfactory at all really for anyone, buyer, vendor, or listing agent but then some clients obviously feel they want to be represented by people who don’t actually have any listings at all, my view is that is mad, really mad, but hey it is just a view. However, by its nature of ducking in and diving out, well it doesn’t sell many properties does it.

    However, the guys believe very clearly that if they get over 60 direct clients a month that some 15 will buy, which is a percentage they did achieve over 8 years, and are moving back toward so that is the rationale behind going over 20 sales a month and upward.

    There you go! πŸ™„

  • #98662
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Thanks Chris for your comprehensive replies, this kind of information is far more enlightening re. the market.

    “Contribution to class much improved, keep it up” !

    Just a question: You say “they are very careful about the properties that they take on now….”.
    Do you mean by that, that only certain properties are taken on/hand-picked and others perhaps not so saleable, refused?

    @mark wrote:

    Interesting stuff Chris.

    It took the Devil’s Advocate to get it out of him though. 😈

  • #98663
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    @charlie wrote:

    Thanks Chris for your comprehensive replies, that must have taken some time – much appreciated.

    Just a question: You say “they are very careful about the properties that they take on now….”.
    Do you mean by that, that only certain properties are taken on/hand-picked and others perhaps not so saleable, refused?

    Good question, what they look for is people who are genuinely motivated to sell, who are prepared to take part in the marketing of their property and contributing to the financial aspect of that, this means a marketing budget to do so.

    These people effectively hand pick themselves, if you believe your property is priced to sell, if you want to actively ensure that your property amongst the many stands out as such, and is heavily promoted, this does say, you are a motivated, proactive and an up for it vendor. This certainly helps everyone.

    If you take part in promotion you then go out in all sorts of media and other ways, the guys have limited such properties available, and they believe in you far more than of yesteryear when literally 200+ properties might have been listed monthly and simply freely ad hoc mostly.

    Nobody however is refused per se, am sure all details are taken, and information placed somewhere within the system, who knows, there might be an opportunity for a viewing if all other avenues have been exhausted, and some vendors, who have listed with 15 other agents, may simply want the guys to be aware of the property, and in the way things work on the Costa, that is acceptable enough. Some people just want their properties to be out there but in a drawer to test the waters as it were, hoping to get lucky, and well they might.

    The guys however, really like to know, that if they have a serious buyer, and I do believe that some 65% of people that view will eventually buy, then they love now working with serious and proactive vendors.

    No one likes to go to something that isn’t really saleable, it is just a monumental waste of everyone’s time and energy.

    And I wish I had the range of emoticons you obviously have! πŸ˜€

  • #98664
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Chris McCarthy wrote:

    And I wish I had the range of emoticons you obviously have! πŸ˜€

    Dream on Chris. Everyone knows that estate agents are shallow πŸ˜†

  • #98665
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Chris McCarthy wrote:

    ….what they look for is people who are genuinely motivated to sell,

    who are prepared to take part in the marketing of their property and contributing to the financial aspect of that, this means a marketing budget to do so.

    Is that another way of saying “we want you to pay towards the marketing of your property eg. house magazine etc. or……

    @Chris McCarthy wrote:

    Nobody however is refused per se, am sure all details are taken, and information placed somewhere within the system

    ……if you don’t pay towards promotion costs, your property will be ‘buried’ somewhere in the system….

    @Chris McCarthy wrote:

    …there might be an opportunity for a viewing if all other avenues have been exhausted

    …until such time that we haven’t had any luck selling the promoted properties first.

    In a nutshell then, pay us a fee to promote your property or it will be bottom of the list to be shown?

  • #98666
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    @charlie wrote:

    @Chris McCarthy wrote:
    ….what they look for is people who are genuinely motivated to sell,
    who are prepared to take part in the marketing of their property and contributing to the financial aspect of that, this means a marketing budget to do so.

    Is that another way of saying “we want you to pay towards the marketing of your property eg. house magazine etc. or……
    @Chris McCarthy wrote:

    Nobody however is refused per se, am sure all details are taken, and information placed somewhere within the system

    ……if you don’t pay towards promotion costs, your property will be ‘buried’ somewhere in the system….
    @Chris McCarthy wrote:

    …there might be an opportunity for a viewing if all other avenues have been exhausted

    …until such time that we haven’t had any luck selling the promoted properties first.
    In a nutshell then, pay us a fee to promote your property or it will be bottom of the list to be shown?

    Yes, that is certainly another way of looking at it and it could be entirely valid.

    It is entirely up to the individual vendor really, it is their decision, based upon what they see and hear presented to them I suppose, and that they ensure “they get what it says on the tin”, if that happens in my experience then everyone is happy.

    There are always pros and cons in everything, and emoticons too… πŸ™‚

  • #98667
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    I certainly wouldn’t pay them to market a property. A friend paid them cerca 1000 euro in one of their past schemes. The place is still up for sale but VIVA aren’t marketing it any longer.

    However, I am sure many anxious to sell will go for the hype. Must be a very lucrative turnover even if not selling many properties. :mrgreen: I don’t really have an emoticon for this!

    There is a rumour that some people have received cold calls from the company saying they have someone wanting to view their property which turned out as a way to suck them into paying money….is this true?

  • #98668
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    I certainly wouldn’t pay them to market a property. A friend paid them cerca 1000 euro in one of their past schemes. The place is still up for sale but VIVA aren’t marketing it any longer.
    However, I am sure many anxious to sell will go for the hype. Must be a very lucrative turnover even if not selling many properties. :mrgreen: I don’t really have an emoticon for this!
    There is a rumour that some people have received cold calls from the company saying they have someone wanting to view their property which turned out as a way to suck them into paying money….is this true?

    And the fact is nobody has to pay anything, and you would certainly be right not to do so if it didn’t suit you, I don’t think the turnover is lucrative or intended to be, it gets the magazine out there and things like full pages in the local Daily Mail and a bunch of other stuff, which you well know Katy, absolutely nobody else does anything remotely near in terms of promotion but am not hear to defend the process just gave an answer to a couple of questions.

    Cold calling though, well that is a miserable business and not something that I would be doing or the guys, I mean if there is someone to view the property, lets see them, come on in and bring them is what I would I ask… So, no, I don’t think you can suck people into paying money this way, and it really isn’t about that.

    When you come to sell your new UK home, a pound to an absolute penny your agent here, just like mine will look for a contribution.

    So I admit, there could be different ways of looking at this a la Charlie, lets not drag it into the gutter, it could just be what it is, an option, and for some a very good option, and for others well, just not something they want to do, but for the company, jeeze it aint going to survive just doing that.

  • #98669
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Question: In a nutshell then, pay us a fee to promote your property or it will be bottom of the list to be shown?
    Answer: Yes, that is certainly another way of looking at it

    Chris, that’s the only way to look at it, but at least you’ve been very honest with us. I just hope prospective vendors know where they stand exactly if they go for the no-contribution-for-marketing option.

    @katy wrote:

    Must be a very lucrative turnover even if not selling many properties – I don’t really have an emotiocon for this!

    How about…..

    I hope you don’t mind me giving you a moustache Chris !!

  • #98670
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    @charlie wrote:

    Chris, that’s the only way to look at it, but at least you’ve been very honest with us. I just hope prospective vendors know where they stand exactly if they go for the no-contribution-for-marketing option.
    I hope you don’t mind me giving you a moustache Chris !!

    I think everyone knows exactly where they stand yes, it didn’t take you long to figure it out and am sure everyone is similarly aware of the position. But you can’t do the things the guys do on a wing and a prayer Charlie, and you can’t disadvantage people who seek an advantage either. It just is what it is really.

    The overall system for selling property in Spain, is not a very good system I have to admit, I didn’t invent it, I have actively tried to change it a number of times, in different ways, and oooh I don’t want to go there right now. But I did try and in the future would love to again.

    I didn’t see your image, it goes to page error, and I thought I was going to achieve fame at last.

  • #98671
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Chris McCarthy wrote:

    Good question, what they look for is people who are genuinely motivated to sell, who are prepared to take part in the marketing of their property and contributing to the financial aspect of that, this means a marketing budget to do so.

    The best line to encourage people to sell thgeir Spanish property NOW:

    Want to sell it for still worthy Euros or to risk selling for worthless Pesetas in the medium future?

  • #98672
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    What I would like to see is a register of property agents with their charges clearly shown and IVA/NIF numbers etc. I realise that it wouldn’t show the good from the bad but it would prevent all those back-room/kitchen sink agents. All these ads that pop-up on google…who are they? Where are their offices?

  • #98675
    Profile photo of peterhun
    peterhun
    Participant

    @flosmichael wrote:

    @Chris McCarthy wrote:

    Good question, what they look for is people who are genuinely motivated to sell, who are prepared to take part in the marketing of their property and contributing to the financial aspect of that, this means a marketing budget to do so.

    The best line to encourage people to sell thgeir Spanish property NOW:

    Want to sell it for still worthy Euros or to risk selling for worthless Pesetas in the medium future?

    The logic for the northern European countries to split off into a DM-Euro and let the PIGS keep their Peseta-Euro is very compelling. http://spaineconomy.blogspot.com/ has full details but a potential, permanent, 30+% depreciation (from today’s depreciated rate) is a very real possibility.

    I think its a bit unfair to criticise Chris McCarthy for suggesting alternative ways of supporting his business, if the old ways don’t work then the new reality has to take over. Things are going to be hard for real estate vendors for the next few years, but they do provide a necessary service. Nobody forces vendors to use them, though.

  • #98676
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @peterhun wrote:

    I think its a bit unfair to criticise Chris McCarthy for suggesting alternative ways of supporting his business, if the old ways don’t work then the new reality has to take over.

    Asking questions to clarify Chris’s points is not ‘criticising’.

    If the ‘old ways don’t work’ anymore (ie. EA’s obviously now loathe to dip into any marketing budget more than they have to, so they get the purchasers to chip in) then so be it. Just establishing facts, Peter.

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