Buying a property from a bank

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This topic contains 24 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 5 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #56284
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Let’s say one goes to one of the sites where banks sell properties (say Altamira- Santander) with the 4 steps detailed here:

    http://www.altamirasantander.com/ventajas/pasoapaso/index.jsp?lang=EN

    Does anybody know what financing are they usually offering? They say up to 100% financing, but did anybody really got the 100%?

    I know that this has been discussed before, but did anybody got any discount by negotiating with the bank? Are they listening to offers?

    Can one deal with Santander branches in UK for the final steps of the buying i.e for say handover of the keys?

  • #105337
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Flosmichael.
    I had started a thread where I was offered by my Bank ( not Santander ) My visit to the Branch was for a banking transaction.

    The offer was 100% finance, 0.25 above Euribor for two years. 0.50 for the life of the mortgage. all associated cost paid for. The Bank is not involved further. You deal with the staff. at the sales office. The prices were about €40k above the going rate. ( The block of 140 plus properties had been on offer it needed further capital to up lift the block as it is totaly neglected. The only thing missing was the grafitti.

    The sales staff hinted that they will not accept any offer’s. I made an offer on three properties €40k to €50k less than the asking price. Needless to say that I have not heard from them.

    I feel what they are providing as an incentive with the mortgage spread over the mortgage period they are expecting to make it on the price i.e. well above the market going rates.

    I feel that Santander in UK has very little to do with the Santender in Spain apart from the brand. Even if they did place a monkey behind the organ he/she will not have a clue & will only act as a letter box

  • #105338
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @shakeel wrote:

    Hi Flosmichael.
    I had started a thread where I was offered by my Bank ( not Santander ) My visit to the Branch was for a banking transaction.

    The offer was 100% finance, 0.25 above Euribor for two years. 0.50 for the life of the mortgage. all associated cost paid for. The Bank is not involved further. You deal with the staff. at the sales office. The prices were about €40k above the going rate. ( The block of 140 plus properties had been on offer it needed further capital to up lift the block as it is totaly neglected. The only thing missing was the grafitti.

    The sales staff hinted that they will not accept any offer’s. I made an offer on three properties €40k to €50k less than the asking price. Needless to say that I have not heard from them.

    I feel what they are providing as an incentive with the mortgage spread over the mortgage period they are expecting to make it on the price i.e. well above the market going rates.
    N
    I feel that Santander in UK has very little to do with the Santender in Spain apart from the brand. Even if they did place a monkey behind the organ he/she will not have a clue & will only act as a letter box

    Thank you for your answer. Were they offering free closing costs? Or the costs were added to the mortgage?

    Another question: I understand that the tax people in Spain do not trust lower acquisition costs and ask for higher sale tax if they think the declared price is too low. Would they trust a sale price declared by a bank better?

  • #105339
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The closing cost is what I meant by associated cost. As we all know there is no free lunch the price of the property had this loaded.

    There are two issues here
    1) Hacienda not accepting a purchase price lower than their percieved price. I understand one can get to the Hacienda & get an idea of what they feel is the price. Do not expect to get anything in writing & be prepared, the Hacienda will deny that you ever consulted them before buying & you were given an X as a price.

    2) Where the rateable value upward revision has not been reflected in the amount of taxes that should have been paid against the amount of tax that had been paid.

  • #105340
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @flosmichael wrote:

    Let’s say one goes to one of the sites where banks sell properties (say Altamira- Santander) with the 4 steps detailed here:

    Does anybody know what financing are they usually offering? They say up to 100% financing, but did anybody really got the 100%?

    Hi, I have heard of cases where the banks covered all purchase costs aswell, but generally it only covers purchase price.

    @flosmichael wrote:

    I know that this has been discussed before, but did anybody got any discount by negotiating with the bank? Are they listening to offers?

    Most will say no, but with the right information it is possible.

    @flosmichael wrote:

    Can one deal with Santander branches in UK for the final steps of the buying i.e for say handover of the keys?

    I would not think so as they would be separate companies.

    @flosmichael wrote:

    Another question: I understand that the tax people in Spain do not trust lower acquisition costs and ask for higher sale tax if they think the declared price is too low. Would they trust a sale price declared by a bank better?

    Its not a matter of trust, its just the system. But you should be able to find out very easily through you lawyer/gestor the exact figure from them. Should you be buying at a figure substantially below the hacienda figure, you can use a property valuation to argue your case.

  • #105341
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “Should you be buying at a figure substantially below the hacienda figure, you can use a property valuation to argue your case”

    In theory. First of all you have to pay the amount demanded & I have never come accross anybody Spanish or other who has manage to get anything back from the Hacienda. Secondly who is going to pay for the legal & the opprtunity cost of the amount.

  • #105342
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @shakeel wrote:

    In theory. First of all you have to pay the amount demanded & I have never come accross anybody Spanish or other who has manage to get anything back from the Hacienda. Secondly who is going to pay for the legal & the opprtunity cost of the amount.

    no you do not have to pay it first.

    The only cost would be to pay for the valuations.

    If you have someone act on your behalf, I assume they would not do it for free.

  • #105343
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @fuengi wrote:

    @shakeel wrote:
    In theory. First of all you have to pay the amount demanded & I have never come accross anybody Spanish or other who has manage to get anything back from the Hacienda. Secondly who is going to pay for the legal & the opprtunity cost of the amount.

    no you do not have to pay it first.

    The only cost would be to pay for the valuations.

    If you have someone act on your behalf, I assume they would not do it for free.

    Are you sure about that? I had a client that told me that they had to pay it in advance. Never dealt with it by myself but only heard complaints about it.

  • #105344
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    We were told by our lawyer we had to pay first. Decided to pay up after a bit of research that showed you can’t win.

  • #105350
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @Ardun wrote:

    @fuengi wrote:
    @shakeel wrote:
    In theory. First of all you have to pay the amount demanded & I have never come accross anybody Spanish or other who has manage to get anything back from the Hacienda. Secondly who is going to pay for the legal & the opprtunity cost of the amount.

    no you do not have to pay it first.

    The only cost would be to pay for the valuations.

    If you have someone act on your behalf, I assume they would not do it for free.

    Are you sure about that? I had a client that told me that they had to pay it in advance. Never dealt with it by myself but only heard complaints about it.

    I can only go by the situation I know of.

    Buyer was told he had to pay an additional (approx.) 3.000€ of tax. he was able to argue it by using the valuation he had done on the property, which showed he had was buying for only slightly less than his official valuation. A new valuation had to then be done. Based on this last valuation he only landed up paying an additional 500€ (approx) in tax.

    Of course the problem in Spain is that hacienda can take the money straight from you account, so you have to be prepared…

  • #105358
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Just rerturned from Spain. Speaking to an Agent who claims that he is not aware of the Hacienda doing a revalution where they feel that the properrty has been underdeclared..

  • #105359
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    So?

    the fact is you can argue it. The taxman not going to reward you for picking up a bargain, but that does not mean you can’t argue that the they are over-valuing the property, you just have to have convincing arguments.

  • #105361
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    @shakeel wrote:

    Just rerturned from Spain. Speaking to an Agent who claims that he is not aware of the Hacienda doing a revalution where they feel that the properrty has been underdeclared..

    Would an Agent actually know. They are only concerned with sales, once they have their commission in their hands they don’t care what happens afterwards.

  • #105363
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    @shakeel wrote:
    Just rerturned from Spain. Speaking to an Agent who claims that he is not aware of the Hacienda doing a revalution where they feel that the properrty has been underdeclared..

    Would an Agent actually know. They are only concerned with sales, once they have their commission in their hands they don’t care what happens afterwards.

    As an agent I did not want to be one to say it! 🙂

  • #105369
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I agree they just want to make a sale. The sale is dependent on the state of the market, laws, exchange rates, taxes etc.

    The said kind of information is professional information & should be known by all that are in the field as it affects there profession directly or indirectly.

  • #105378
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    if your buying a property for 100.000€ but the tax man, based on the value they have given the property feel it should sell for 200.000€ you will have to pay 7.000€ in ‘extra’ tax.

    The taxman does not care if you are getting a bargain, nor could you use this argument. But if you can show the property is only worth 100.000€, due to the condition of the property (poor maintenance, etc….) then you can argue for a lower valuation.

    @ Shakeel: quite a few a realtors I have dealt with, tend to rely of lawyers to do all of these checks.

  • #105380
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @fuengi wrote:

    if your buying a property for 100.000€ but the tax man, based on the value they have given the property feel it should sell for 200.000€ you will have to pay 7.000€ in ‘extra’ tax.

    The taxman does not care if you are getting a bargain, nor could you use this argument. But if you can show the property is only worth 100.000€, due to the condition of the property (poor maintenance, etc….) then you can argue for a lower valuation.

    Sorry, I do not understand.

    If one buys a property from a bank, why would the taxman think that the bank did dirty tricks and not declare the value?
    The value can be checked on the websites.

    Can one direct the taxman directly to the cached versions of the bank websites to see that the price paid was the advertised one?

  • #105381
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    nothing to do with dirty tricks. Its make sure the tax man gets his taxes.

    prices on websites mean little.

    You have to prove that the value they have given the property is wrong. The taxman does not go an lookg at properties and value them, the calculation is based on location/m2/etc….
    You can have to identical houses next to each other, 1 fully reformed to modern standards, wonderfull condition. The one next door has been rented to a family of 20 who have ruined the property, broken the pipes, crackes the windows, removed the kitchen and made a whole in the roof.

    Hacienda would still given them the same values.

  • #105382
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    does this help clear it up a bit?

  • #105383
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    No. Tax man will get up their back side to favour a tax payer. When it comes to taxes. The onus is on the tax payer not the Taxman.

  • #105386
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Question: can one ask the seller (say the bank) to provide a Hacienda valuation such that the buyer knows how much money is to be returned to the Hacienda? Do people usually do that?

  • #105388
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Any decent Lawyer would do that and also provide a breakdown of costs before purchase.

  • #105392
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    One can ask the earth. Does not mean one get’s it. The Bank’s continue to think that they are doing a favour to the buyer.

  • #105395
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @flosmichael wrote:

    Question: can one ask the seller (say the bank) to provide a Hacienda valuation such that the buyer knows how much money is to be returned to the Hacienda? Do people usually do that?

    If you are buying through a bank, I assume they will ‘deal’ with the paperwork for hte purchas eon your behalf?

    as a seller they have to supply you with all relevant documentation on the property (BIB, basura, etc…). You can ask them, as they will deal with the sale to confirm what value hacienda will give the property, should take them no more than a few hours to find out.

  • #105397
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Do not assume anything or trust that the Bank will do anything more than required to meet their object i.e. get your money. Remember ” buyer be aware ” who ever you are buying from.

    In future if you have a problem with them they can come back with a answer like. We are suppose to sell it to you & no more. Like they are evading paying out on Bank guanratee.

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