buyers negligence

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This topic contains 22 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 8 years, 6 months ago.

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  • #53992
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Just thought I would start a thread to get the general feedback from agents and buyers alike

    This story ran in the Telegraph last week

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/main.jhtml?xml=/property/2008/05/24/pspain124.xml

    To summarise (the three pages) it was about a rogue agent pretending he had an affilliation with the Telegraph but the actual story is again having a dig at the Spanish property market and agents in general.

    The first guy that purchased a property bought an illegal property with debts on it – who is at fault here?

    1) The lawyer for not doing their job correctly (if you read on the next buyer used a lawyer recommended by the agent)

    2) The agent

    3) The buyer for not using common sense to appoint an independent lawyer.

    I agree in some cases it is not possible to protect ones self from all potential buying hazards but would these people trust everything a UK agent tells them, use a lawyer that is recommended by the agent and purchase without ensuring that everything about the house is safe.

    I am guessing that they wouldn’t and when buying abroad even more care should be taken as it is not a familiar purchase to many.

    It seems that ‘negligence’ from buyers and too often a chance to grab a bargain outweigh the common sense factors required when purchasing a property anywhere in the world and I fail to see how the ‘agents’ in general can be blamed for this

    What do you all think?

  • #83090
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Interesting one PJ. Whilst I agree people need to be more wary when buying outside of the UK mainly due to differing customs etc, really an agent who is a professional and who makes his.her money by being paid in that profession, should shoulder more of the blame.

    Its not the agents fault if the buyer suddenly decides they dont like what they have bought, or through circumstances cannot complete, but if incorrect information is given then why is it hte buyers faulty.

    In the case above, the buyer took reasonable steps and trusted the professional who should not have been operating an out and out scam, for this is what it is. In the UK it would be a criminal offence obtaining money by deception – cant remember which part of the theft act it is, but it is one and the boudaries are very exact.

    The people caught up in this ought to make an official complaint to the police both about the agent and about the lawyer who was clearly negligent! The agent may hide behind the fact the lawyer should be doing his job, but in reality the police will nick both of them – here guilty before proven innocent is the norm (unless you are a marbellan ex town hall official I guess!!!) and let them prove otherwise.

    Sometimes one as an agent could be duped and end up offering property for sale you shouldnt do – theres only so far it can be checked without costing money and we are not here to offer a legal service, but to offer property that in our knowledge is fairly priced and as legal as we ca find out or know about.

    The lawyers job is to protect his client and ensure the property bought is fully legal – although again in some areas its still wishy washy and very grey.

  • #83091
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “Its not the agents fault if the buyer suddenly decides they dont like what they have bought”

    AGREE AND THAT’S WHY THERE SHOULD BE A COOLING OFF PERIOD OF SAY TWO WEEKS. THE BUYER IN THAT TWO WEEKS DOES NOT PART WITH ANY MONEY, NO, NOT EVEN A €. LIKE IN FRANCE.

    or through circumstances cannot complete,
    ONLY IF DIVORCE, DEATH, LOSS OF JOB, ETC OTHERWISE THEY SHOULD HONOUR,

    but if incorrect information is given then why is it hte buyers faulty
    AGREE. THE DEAL/HANDSHAKE WAS DONE BASED ON THE INFORMATION PROVIDED AT THE TIME . IF THE INFORMATION THAT WAS PROVIDED TURNS OUT TO BE INCORRECT THAN THE PARTIES HAVE A FULL RIGHT TO WITHDRAW.

  • #83094
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    It is the Lawyers fault, although I suppose with the new law (218) it would also be the agents fault.

    I would never hand any money over to an Agent even if its only a reservation fee…tell them to contact your lawyer.

  • #83095
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Katy, yes when things go wrong, its normal to find out the source of it. Blaming lawyers & or Agents is fine. Until the party concerned does pay out damages etc, what good is the blame game.

  • #83097
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Yes I agree with most of the above.

    I think the point I am really trying to make is that the papers seem to tar ALL agents in Spain with the same brush.

    I totally agree things need to be much tidier and transparent and that decree 218 will be a big step towards this.

    A cooling off period sounds good but in reality I cannot see it ever being employed in Spain.

    I do think there needs to be more accountability in the whole process.

    A lawyer simply ‘overlooking’ a critical factor related to the property is not acceptable. In the UK they could be struck off for such things.

    With the whole concept of MLS I am not sure how an agent can know everything about a property that is listed, although I think there should be some form of checking on behalf of their CLIENT. It is afterall the CLIENT that is producing their income if they purchase.

    Out of interest, what would happen in the UK if someone purchased a property and didn’t have the necessary checks done on the land only to find that a sewage plant was planned for next door?

    Can they blame the lawyer or agent?

    Should the agent know the plans for every property being sold?

    Decree 218 goes some way towards this but is this going to limit the number of properties on the market?

  • #83098
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    I would never blame an Agent they are only the intermediary in a purchase. I have never expected an Agent to tell the whole truth, they are working for the Vendor.

    As Shakeel says though it is sometimes irrelevant in these cases. Once you have bought you are stuck.

  • #83099
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I have never expected an Agent to tell the whole truth, they are working for the Vendor.

    But are they working for the vendor?

    You can have 2000 vendors on your books but without the buyer there is no income or business.

    Unlike the UK where you are limited to sole agents or a limited number, a property here can be on with 100’s of agents.

    All marketing costs from agents go in to finding buyers.

    So who really is the client? Buyer or Vendor?

  • #83100
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @inez wrote:

    really an agent who is a professional and who makes his.her money by being paid in that profession,

    I can only assume that you mean professional in attitude and not as a member of the “learned professions”, which you will be aware there is a massive difference between a salesman and a Professional person.

  • #83109
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    not as a member of the “learned professions”, which you will be aware there is a massive difference between a salesman and a Professional person.

    Not sure where that one came from MG?

    So am I right in thinking that you are saying those from ‘learned professions’ are far more trustworthy and ‘professional’ than us poor mortals that might not have a university degree or have chosen a career path on the road to ruin i.e. as an agent?

    Of course those ‘professionals’ from ‘learned professions’ such as MP’s, Doctors, Lawyers, Judges etc etc are far far more trustworthy than anyone else 😉

  • #83110
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Dictionary description of the word Professional – not just the discription you keep mentioning MG

    1. following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain: a professional builder.
    2. of, pertaining to, or connected with a profession: professional studies.
    3. appropriate to a profession: professional objectivity.
    4. engaged in one of the learned professions: A lawyer is a professional person.
    5. following as a business an occupation ordinarily engaged in as a pastime: a professional golfer.
    6. making a business or constant practice of something not properly to be regarded as a business: “A salesman,” he said, “is a professional optimist.”
    7. undertaken or engaged in as a means of livelihood or for gain: professional baseball.
    8. of or for a professional person or his or her place of business or work: a professional apartment; professional equipment.
    9. done by a professional; expert: professional car repairs.
    –noun 10. a person who belongs to one of the professions, esp. one of the learned professions.
    11. a person who earns a living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs: a golf professional.
    12. an expert player, as of golf or tennis, serving as a teacher, consultant, performer, or contestant; pro.
    13. a person who is expert at his or her work: You can tell by her comments that this editor is a real professional.

  • #83111
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Yes, you can even see “A professional con-artist” in the media.

  • #83112
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    Yes, you can even see “A professional con-artist” in the media.

    one who sweeps the roads for payment is now also a professional also.

  • #83113
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @pj wrote:

    With the whole concept of MLS I am not sure how an agent can know everything about a property that is listed, although I think there should be some form of checking on behalf of their CLIENT. It is afterall the CLIENT that is producing their income if they purchase.

    quite easily, it comes down to software. If your part of an MLS group that requires all paperwork to be 218 complaint, then there is not reason why this informaiton should not be accessible the the MLS software. It would just reuqire scanning a few documents.

  • #83114
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @mg wrote:

    @katy wrote:
    Yes, you can even see “A professional con-artist” in the media.

    one who sweeps the roads for payment is now also a professional also.

    it can be is profession, whether he is professional though is another point.

  • #83123
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    ….if we go to a doctor or a bank!, we trust that the person we see will do the decent thing. The penalties for not are harsh, as well they should be. Why on earth should we not expect agents or lawyers we trust with our money or life changing decisions, not to be bound by the same codes of conduct?

  • #83137
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @goodstich44 wrote:

    ….if we go to a doctor or a bank!, we trust that the person we see will do the decent thing.

    Not always.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1021798/The-healthy-baby-doctors-said-aborted.html

  • #83143
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    A professional has a unique body of knowledge.

    That doesn’t mean they also have morals. After all the most prolific mass murderer in recent times was a GP called Shipman! 😯

  • #83144
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    …and Osama bin Laden is/was a Civil Engineer!

  • #83146
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    …and Osama bin Laden is/was a Civil Engineer!

    I didn’t know that.

    Do you think he built a bomb proof shelter? 🙂

  • #83154
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Che guevara was a doctor !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • #83170
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    ….i think there’s a bit more chance of getting a dodgy agent/lawyer, than Osama bin Laden being your chosen Civil Engineer, or Che Guevara being your doctor!!!!

  • #83171
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    ……..come to think of it, we could probably trust those two a bit more?

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