Britain is on the verge of a recession

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  • #54156
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    Anonymous
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    It’s official (!)……Britain is on the verge of a recession. 🙁

    The British Chambers of Commerce warns that a recession could start within months and describes the outlook as ‘grim’ .

    The official definition of a recession is two or more consecutive quarters of negative economic growth.
    David Kern, economic adviser to the British Chambers of Commerce, said he is expecting negative growth for the rest of the year and does not expect growth to return to normal levels until 2010 at the earliest.

    Coupled with redundancies increasing (and job vacancies falling for the first time in five years) – I think this news could just about be the final nail in the coffin as far as Spain finding English purchasers for some of its 2 million unsold properties. Looks like the same could be said for the Germans as their outlook doesn’t look good either.

    Will it also increase the number of people needing to sell their Spanish 2nd homes, thus putting even more pressure on an already saturated ‘for sale’ market?
    Answers on a postcard……

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1033155/Recession-job-losses-start-months-say-bosses.html

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/jul/08/economicgrowth.economics

    Just to keep some balance on all this ‘doom and gloom’, the good news is Gordy enjoyed an 18-course gastronomic extravaganza at the G8 summit in Japan last night (while they discussed the global food crisis).

  • #85071
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    Anonymous
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    I’m sure that we have interesting times ahead of us. It will be interesting to see where it all ends. The UK needs the correction, Spain more so.

  • #85073
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    Anonymous
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    and just heard on the radio that no one should take much notice of the Chamber of Commerce “it is mostly rum by people who are not in business and could not find their own backside in the dark with their own hands” 😆

  • #85074
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    Anonymous
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    The way it sounds as though its all going I might just as well hand my keys back as we cannot afford our mortgage and will not be able to sell – wont get enough to break even looking at how its going!!

    I am sure we are not the only ones in this predicament

    Answers on a postcard – we are actually going out there next week possibly for a last stay in the place and will see first hand how bad it is

    Got some good flights from Luton to MUrcia and will use the new toll road to Vera ( almeria )

  • #85076
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    GJ
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    @jwc wrote:

    and just heard on the radio that no one should take much notice of the Chamber of Commerce “it is mostly rum by people who are not in business and could not find their own backside in the dark with their own hands” 😆

    Head still in the sand then.
    lifeboats and titanic spring to mind

  • #85077
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    Anonymous
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    Mirador,

    Speak to your bank before handing back the keys. My bank Caxia Galica organised a two year fixed rate remortgage for me, bringing my monthly repayments down from 800 euros to 350 euros. I am presently out of work, so am still struggling to find this amount but it is sure better than 800 euros. If you can find any way of keeping your flat I think you should because ultimately the consequences of you giving your keys back to the bank could be far worse in the long run than keeping your flat and riding out the storm.

    Best of luck!

  • #85079
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    Anonymous
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    “the good news is Gordy enjoyed an 18-course gastronomic extravaganza at the G8 summit in Japan last night (while they discussed the global food crisis)”.

    Gorden Brown, also spoke of the wastage of food in the UK. I see a basis and softening up for an introduction of a waste tax. Don’t blame me you all been warned.

  • #85080
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    Anonymous
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    Shakeel, am sure it’s already on the cards that the bin police will be round next to tax you on that uneaten half loaf of bread or those biscuit crumbs you’ve thrown away.
    What a money-spinner, as well as the fines that will go with it.

    Having read that three year olds can now be accused of being racist if they ‘react negatively to a culinary tradition other than their own by saying “yuk” 😯 – yes, and nurseries are encouraged to report as many racist incidents as possible to local councils, all advised by the Government-funded National Children’s Bureau.

    And that four year olds are to have sex education at school, I just thank goodness my life is being spent elsewhere. The whole country is a mad house run by the insane.

    Where is that person who organised the Poll Tax Protest demos during Thatcher’s time…….we need another protest march like that against this bunch of free-loading morons who think they know what’s best for the rest of us.

    Recession? What recession? Just stick your veggies in the fridge and you’ll be fine. 🙄

  • #85081
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    Charlie: I don’t have words to second your thoughts. I am sorry but the people of the Country deserve everything they got for being incredibly nieve and apathetic.

    Yes, the people who had organised poll tax riots are needed as even the lady who was not known for turning had to turn. When she saw Trafalgar square being destroyed and things were beyond redemption. This incident, the miners strike was the time that the citizens of the county lost respect for the Police. As it was not a question of law & order as it turned into oppression of the masses.

    Compare, this to today, we have lorry drivers, protesting going to Hyde park in their lorries and having a pick nick. How feeble is that ???? and whilst they have driven to Hyde park they have paid more tax. The french lorry drivers left their lorries at round about etc, locked them and went for a nice glass of wine whilst playing cards and amusing themselves .

    We, deserve everything we get in the Country. A little bit of Anarchy in the system is good. Can you imagine Spaniards or anybody on this planet accepting things the way that they are !!!!!

  • #85088
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    shakeel wrote:
    “the good news is Gordy enjoyed an 18-course gastronomic extravaganza at the G8 summit in Japan last night (while they discussed the global food crisis)”.

    Gorden Brown, also spoke of the wastage of food in the UK. I see a basis and softening up for an introduction of a waste tax. Don’t blame me you all been warned.[/quote.

    The world I fear is run by lunatics, not just Britain. All this green rubbish, everytime they have a meeting most of the lunatics attending fly half way round the world , ie Bali and Japan. Brown goes on about not wasting food and ordering supermarkets to ban, BOGOF, Buy One Get One Free.
    Then sits down to a 6 course lunch then a 12 course dinner, the man is barking. The lunatics are truly in charge of the asylum. I cannot see anyone likely to get the world back on track, Obama with the lousy Clintons in the rear or Mc Cain, do not fill me with confidence. Then in the UK there is the Blair ,clone or clown Cameron reckon Dr Cameron from Dr Findlay´s Casebook would do a better job.

    I thank God I am not 18 years of age, what a world to be in at that age .

    I do find it incredible that the British people are taking the Nulabour disaster almost without a wimper , the Poll Tax was nothing compared to the damage these clowns are doing, with quangoes,council workers poking their noses inside bins when they are not licking the bosses backside. Eleven years of Nulabour mismanagement and all they do is write to the Daily Telegraph and Daily Mail.

  • #85089
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    @135yearswaiting wrote:

    I do find it incredible that the British people are taking the Nulabour disaster almost without a wimper…..

    135 – You’re right. It’s almost like everyone is just sleepwalking towards disaster.

    Four examples of just one of the reasons why I think the UK has lost its way. The pending recession is almost insignificant to this, the breakdown of a law-protected society:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1032755/Businessman-grabbed-thug-smashing-window-charged-assault.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1033266/Pensioner-facing-jail-chasing-stone-throwing-yobs-property-plank-wood.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-500124/Policemans-son-wrestled-flasher-ground-arrested-assault-claim.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-438638/Innocent-hero-cells-hours.html

  • #85090
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    mike
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    @charlie wrote:

    Four examples of just one of the reasons why I think the UK has lost its way. The pending recession is almost insignificant to this, the breakdown of a law-protected society:

    The Daily Mail? The same Daily Mail that supported the Nazis and seems devoted to frightening its readership? Your lack of intellectual pretence is simply a complete lack of intellect, I imagine.

  • #85091
    Profile photo of rt21
    rt21
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    I must confess I am another one who doesn’t place too much trust in what appears in the UK tabloids.

    They have a habit of picking up half truths and embellishing the remainder so you end up not knowing what part of a story is true or false. Having said that my gut feeling is that the pendulum has definately swung in favour of the perpetrators of crime and away from the victims. Something drastically needs to be done to address the situation

    Richard

  • #85093
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    135yearsandwaiting,

    The reason the people of “not so Great Britain anymore” do nothing is quite simply because they have been well and truly infiltrated over the last 10 years, there rights have been eroded to the point where the average family is to scared to say anything incase they are deemed racist, sexist, homophobic, anti government, anti eu, anti police and anti anything this pathetic excuse for a government deems inapropriate. I could have told you 2 maybe 3 years ago that we were heading for a recession, not rocket science is it, why if we have a housing shortage are there building companies in certain parts of england closing and boarding up sites that are either finished or partly finished because they can’t sell them. What we need in government is a common sense minister someone who has actually held down a real job and who knows what really happens in the ordinary family life. Sorry to go on and on but I am pasionate about the country although I now live here in Spain it saddens me to see the decline.

  • #85094
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    ronniedisco:

    Whilst I agree with your general comments in your post, regarding building companies in trouble it is because they built too many properties in parts of England that not enough people want to live in. I read recently that Liverpool & Manchester have a 50% OVER supply of 2 bed flats. Massive investment but not enough sales, they have a problem.

    There is a shortage of housing but the problem is the people don’t live, & don’t want to live where the empty properties are.

    This is why in Southern England, In parts of Surrey for example, while prices are not going up, they haven’t dropped by much either.

    With regard to your point about goverment ministers who have had real jobs, well, if that is our only hope, WE HAVE HAD IT!

    It doesn’t matter which party gets in, none of them have worked in a real job.

  • #85096
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    @mike wrote:

    The Daily Mail? The same Daily Mail that supported the Nazis and seems devoted to frightening its readership? Your lack of intellectual pretence is simply a complete lack of intellect, I imagine.

    I apologise for insulting your intellect Mike by quoting articles from the Daily Mail.

    Am therefore giving you links to the Daily Telegraph where you will find editorials on the same DM stories in the hope they may suit your obvious intellect better perhaps?
    As you have quoted from the Daily Telegraph yourself in the past, I assume this is acceptable.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2269229/Pensioner-arrested-for-chasing-away-youths-with-plank.html

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1543926/Woman-who-foiled-bike-thief-locked-up.html

    I am somewhat relieved my original post included a link to the The Guardian as well as the Daiy Mail regarding the same topic, otherwise you would have no doubt attempted to rubbish the whole thread as against just my intellect.

    As for my “lack of intellectual pretence” – I consider that a compliment as pretending has never really been my thing. I’ll leave that to you, alongside your unprovoked rudeness.

  • #85097
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    while none of us are happy with the current situation, i think blaming the current UK government for everything bad is missing the point. Does anybody really think things would have been much different with the opposition? Apart from the tories making a few gestures to look after their traditional wealthy voters, and then a few gestures to make it look like they are not just the party for the rich/middle class, what would be the difference. Policy, what policy??

    If people stand up for their rights, as i had to once when a union member, and don’t give in when those on the right wing think they should, they are told they are being ‘lefty’ or ‘bringing down the government’. While nobody in their right mind wants to see total anarchy, or left wing domination, if you set a limit on the strength or size of protest, it becomes a worthless exercise, as the opposition will just let it run to it’s limit, then get their own way!

    Now people are are saying ‘why do we accept everything that’s thrown at us’, or ‘why don’t we protest’!! …….. You can’t have it both ways, and it often depends on which side of the fence you sit, as to how you view those standing up for their rights. I wish people would remember that when someone elses protest or lack of protest doesn’t suit them?

    There is no easy answer, but united we stand, divided we fall is probably the only way to force change, but then that’s far to ‘lefty’ for many??

  • #85098
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    rt21
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    Rob

    I think you will find that building companies are in trouble because real demand for houses has dropped dramatically and they are not selling in the quantities to keep trading. This is due to prices shooting up as a result of too much loose money chasing too few properties (pricing many people out of the market) and the resulting credit crunch which now means that many people simply cannot get hold of mortgages to finance house purchases. On top of that many people are now feeling a sense of financial insecurity, which also affects their buying decisions

    Richard

  • #85099
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    katy
    Spectator

    I may get shot down for this but I think the UK has exacerbated the recession by predicting the house price crash for the last few years. No other Country shoots itself in the foot like the UK. Daily doom and gloom has destroyed consumer confidence. Interest rates may be on the rise but they have been much higher.

    If mortgages are so scarce why do I receive so much spam from different banks! One the other day offered 5000 air miles on taking out a mortgage with them.

  • #85101
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    @rt21 wrote:

    I must confess I am another one who doesn’t place too much trust in what appears in the UK tabloids. They have a habit of picking up half truths and embellishing the remainder so you end up not knowing what part of a story is true or false.

    Richard – I totally agree with you. This is why, despite living overseas, I am able to look at a cross-range of newspapers online everyday to make sure I get balanced reporting, especially on stories like these.

    @rt21 wrote:

    Having said that my gut feeling is that the pendulum has definately swung in favour of the perpetrators of crime and away from the victims. Something drastically needs to be done to address the situation

    I think many would agree with your gut feeling.
    It is also disheartening to see the Government’s Sentencing Advisory Panel has just concluded in a new report that a “presumption in favour of a community order is most likely to be appropriate in relation to the less serious offences of theft, dishonesty, burglary”.
    Burglary a “less serious offence”? It just shows how far goal posts have moved in recent times.

    I see a total betrayal of society when people feel they can not depend on justice anymore, commonsense in many legal areas seemingly abandoned, and life in general straightjacketed by pc.
    Sadly I can only see it getting worse and one can only hope the Tories would undertake some reversal of this if elected. Cameron is currently making all the right noises but putting this into practice is quite another matter.

  • #85102
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    katy

    you’re probably right, but i think Spain probably takes the award for shooting itself in the foot….and a bit higher!

  • #85103
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    @goodstich44 wrote:

    Now people are are saying ‘why do we accept everything that’s thrown at us’, or ‘why don’t we protest’!! …….. You can’t have it both ways, and it often depends on which side of the fence you sit, as to how you view those standing up for their rights.

    goodstich – I feel there are some areas where the majority would be standing on the same side of the fence.
    The exhorbitant fuel tax, and human rights laws preventing the deportation of convicted criminals/terrorists (and supporting them on benefits) being two examples.

  • #85105
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    charlie

    yes, i would think so, but there are other subjects that some probably feel as strong about. I think there is a danger of expecting support when it suits our particular gripe. Is the crime worse because it effects 8 out of 10 and not 4?

  • #85106
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    I read all the time that Brits on internet fora feel that the UK is a poor place to live and I agree.

    However, my view of the issues in the UK seems to be quite different from others opinions. I read that the problems are immigration, crime, “the goverment” and probably lots more too.

    I simply disgree that the UK is overwhelmed with immigrants, nor that they are all living on benefits. Anyone who has used the NHS over the last 5 years will know that many immigrants work, and pay taxes.

    The UK is said to be soft of criminals. Yet we have more people locked up than ever.

    The system of government in the UK is IMHO poor, but I do think that we like to malign politicians inappropriately. I have read many people blaming Brown for the economic downturn. Yet my understanding is that it is normal for economies to my in cycles.

    So, what do I dislike about the UK? High taxes (government waste), the unhealthy work/life balance, the fact that the NHS is failing (e.g. dental provision), the way most brits blame others (politicians, immigrants, criminals…) for problems. And last of all that it will never change, as like it or not, politicians make the rules, and we have no real choice in our “democracy”. The parties are much the same, and even if we had more radical politics I feel that most are to conservative to try something new.

    Anyway, now I’ve got that off my chest I feel a bit better 😆 😆 😆

    Enjoy the sun (no not The Sun! ) 🙂

  • #85108
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    @charlie wrote:

    As for my “lack of intellectual pretence” – I consider that a compliment as pretending has never really been my thing. I’ll leave that to you, alongside your unprovoked rudeness.

    When you lie, or link to a newspaper that spins the truth then I am provoked. If you believe what you read in the Daily Mail then I’m offended by your stupidity.

    I only link to the Telegraph to demonstrate that what I believe is now in the public domain and therefore confidence in the global property market is screwed. I would never rely on any newspaper to help me form an opinion but they do print facts sometimes which are quite useful.

    Have the newspapers started printing stories of recession yet? We knew that we would go into recession 9 months ago, didn’t we?

  • #85112
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    Anonymous
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    Mike, did you know that the Telegraph and the Mail have a number of journalists in common?

  • #85116
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    katy
    Spectator

    It is fascinating to see how different newspapers cover the same story. I believe journalism in the UK is dead. Most of the columns are filled with press releases which are published word for word. Just one example I saw recently (not relating to property)

    Amy Winehouse delighted fans at a concert in Portugal last night…..blah blah….SKY news website

    Amy Winehouse gave a poor performance in Portugal last night, she was booed by fans as she lurched around the stage slurring her words…..DiarioSur de Málaga

    The one from SKY was obviously taken from her publicity team and the one in DiarioSur from someone who was actually there

    The content of most UK reports are rent a quote and contain no investigative journalism or research.

  • #85117
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    Melosine
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    With apologies El anciano just had to lift this quote from you
    The UK is said to be soft of criminals. Yet we have more people locked up than ever.

    Possibly because prisons are filled with pensioners unable to pay their rates and innocent, usually elderly, folk defending themselves and their property against the yob culture.
    It certainly isn’t the perpetrators of crimes.

  • #85120
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    @mike wrote:

    When you lie, or link to a newspaper that spins the truth then I am provoked. If you believe what you read in the Daily Mail then I’m offended by your stupidity.

    Mike – after accusing another member recently of being a liar and dillusional, you later followed it up by saying:

    “I’m sorry if I overreacted ………
    However, I also know that sometimes we need to let off steam and perhaps be a bit selfish or self centred because it seems that the world is against us.
    I should learn to bite my tongue sometimes”.

    Perhaps you may do well to heed your own advice, especially as I fully intend to continue posting links to the Daily Mail as and when I feel like it/feel it’s appropriate.
    Have you ever tried switching to decaffeinated or taking a cold bath?

    If the mood takes you, do feel free to make a contribution of your own on the actual subject of this thread, rather than just taking your “the world is against me” paranoia out on me. It may just give you the ‘feel good factor’ – a great antidote for psychotic feelings of ‘provocation’.

  • #85121
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    Melosine

    perhaps time to bring back the death sentence? I dont see why anyone who takes a life deserves to be shielded from the public and looked after with tax payers money for the rest of their life. It would clear alot of prison places and hopfully deter some from stabbing/shooting/drink-driving etc. I’m probably very much in the minority with that opinion i realise?

    i think the DiarioSur de Málaga got it right out Amy Winehouse. Did you hear her on Glatonbury reviews on TV. She sounded out of key, out of tune, out of of her head!. Such a waste of a very gifted talent.

  • #85122
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  • #85123
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    charlie

    according to TV news this morning, the economy is still growing, though obviously slower. I think we will talk ourselves in to a recession whatever the economy does?…….and probably talk ourselves out of it again when we think the time is right?

  • #85124
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    @goodstich44 wrote:

    Melosine
    perhaps time to bring back the death sentence? I dont see why anyone who takes a life deserves to be shielded from the public and looked after with tax payers money for the rest of their life.

    goodstich – I must say I agree with you, especially where guilt is indisputable (witnesses, overwhelming DNA etc.). I think it will knock a lot of the ‘bravado’ out of some of these yobs who think it’s ‘big’ to take a life, something to do for ‘a bit of a laugh’, and in some cases even regard murdering someone simply as part of the initiation test in order to belong to a gang.
    Yes, it means the ‘establishment’ has taken a life, but I don’t buy into the argument that it only brings us down to their level. Possibly preventing some other yob taking an innocent life is far more important in my opinion.

  • #85131
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    charlie

    no i dont buy in to the ‘establishment’ taking a life either. A bit like saying the establishment has come down to the level of a thief if they fine them money for the crime. No doubt some will point to the states as the death sentence not stopping the many gun crimes, others will say innocent people would die, and on rare occasions they might?, but i doubt as many would as in the present system?

  • #85132
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    Fuengi (Andrew)
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    @katy wrote:

    I may get shot down for this but I think the UK has exacerbated the recession by predicting the house price crash for the last few years. No other Country shoots itself in the foot like the UK. Daily doom and gloom has destroyed consumer confidence. Interest rates may be on the rise but they have been much higher.

    If mortgages are so scarce why do I receive so much spam from different banks! One the other day offered 5000 air miles on taking out a mortgage with them.

    this might be us all remembering when we read article where brits are known to have a vested interest, including, dare I say it, the spanish property market.

  • #85136
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    mike
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    @forestfire wrote:

    Mike, did you know that the Telegraph and the Mail have a number of journalists in common?

    No I didn’t. Are the employed on an agency basis? I assume that they tailor the story for their audience.

    Daily Telegraph headline: Housing markets falls due to Labour incompetence

    Daily Mail: Asylum seekers next door brings down value of property

  • #85139
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    Fuengi

    yes, i’m sure there’s some truth in that, but if only all the corruption/unregulated planning/greed, hadn’t been able to thrive for so long, there wouldn’t have been anywhere need so much to fill negative headlines. Look at the costa brava, hardly ever see bad press.

  • #85140
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    mike
    Participant

    @charlie wrote:

    Perhaps you may do well to heed your own advice, especially as I fully intend to continue posting links to the Daily Mail as and when I feel like it/feel it’s appropriate.

    I should learn to bite my tongue sometimes. But if someone believes what they read in the Mail then it’s very hard to take them seriously and very easy to sneer.

    @charlie wrote:

    Have you ever tried switching to decaffeinated or taking a cold bath?

    Simply avoiding the Daily Mail seems to do the trick

    @charlie wrote:

    If the mood takes you, do feel free to make a contribution of your own on the actual subject of this thread

    OK. I think more banks will get into trouble and they may survive but it’s touch and go and regardless of whether they do or not Britain will go into a deep and long recession. Just as shares failed to recover for more than 20 years after the 1929 crash, so property will not recover in the UK for a similar amount of time.

    In Spain it will be worse. In addition there will be a surge in xenophobia leading to some violent incidents and maybe even riots. An increasing number of people who left Britain to live the dream will be returning to poverty, maybe even homelessness.

    @charlie wrote:

    rather than just taking your “the world is against me” paranoia out on me. It may just give you the ‘feel good factor’ – a great antidote for psychotic feelings of ‘provocation’.

    I’m sorry for anyone who suffers in the coming crash but I hope to take advantage because isn’t that what free markets are all about? Or am I being paranoid?

  • #85144
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    Paul
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    Charlie, you are a veritable mine of information but I’ve just found another headliner which makes for grim reading too for the UK.

    http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/pdf/abn-amr

    It reckons the UK is more vulnerable to a correction than the US.

  • #85145
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    Paul
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  • #85149
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    Melosine
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    Goodstich 44,
    Don’t think on this issue (death penalty) you are in the minority however when people are set targets, especially by the Government, the work gets sloppier and even with DNA and so called “expert witnesses” too many innocent people have been incarcerated because they are easier to convict than the criminals who know how to use the system.
    Redruth, Cornwall.
    Parents of those of 16 and under are being asked to assist in a curfew after 9pm 🙄
    These yobs in hoodies wouldn’t be intimidating the neighbours if the parents had control in the first place.
    Want to play hard .. ship them off to Boot camp.

    Sorry totally off topic

  • #85151
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    Anonymous
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    Melosine

    yes, the lack of discipline at home and many schools has much to answer for. Bootcamp……there’s a thought, how about compulsary for any kids still breaking the school rules after warnings. Make it tough, as a deterrent. A few would be straightened out, some might even like it and join the forces?

    now that would make the newspapers!

  • #85153
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    mike
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    @goodstich44 wrote:

    Melosine

    yes, the lack of discipline at home and many schools has much to answer for. Bootcamp……there’s a thought, how about compulsary for any kids still breaking the school rules after warnings. Make it tough, as a deterrent. A few would be straightened out, some might even like it and join the forces?

    now that would make the newspapers!

    Williw Whitelaw and his short sharp shock was a good headline but was quickly shelved as unrealistic.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Whitelaw

    His much vaunted “short, sharp shock” policy, whereby convicted young offenders were detained in secure units and subjected to quasi-military discipline won approval from the public but proved expensive to implement and largely ineffectual in stemming burgeoning crime rates

  • #85155
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    Anonymous
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    @melosine wrote:

    With apologies El anciano just had to lift this quote from you
    The UK is said to be soft of criminals. Yet we have more people locked up than ever.

    Possibly because prisons are filled with pensioners unable to pay their rates and innocent, usually elderly, folk defending themselves and their property against the yob culture.
    It certainly isn’t the perpetrators of crimes.

    Sorry to be late replying, but really, do you actually believe this?

    I guess we’ll see “Meals on Wheels” tendering for the prison food contracts, and that Saga will force through a hostile takeover of Securicor, as prisons are now (apparently) in-line with their core business.

    Still, it’s a funny idea that the prisons are full of honest, decent, old people, it would make a good sit-com 😆

  • #85156
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    😡 YES

  • #85157
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Oh well, each to there own, and all that. 🙂

  • #85158
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Mike

    thanks for the link. I guess it’s often to late to change people who have grown up with no real discipline, resulting in no respect for anyone. It has to start from home at a young age i think. It doesn’t need to be harsh, just so kids know when not to cross the boundaries. If that carried on from first school days, most would know where they stand. It just seems common sense?

    perhaps it’s just me getting old!!

  • #85160
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I often hear Gordon Brown stating figures at PM’s question time that crime and recorded crime levels are down and almost in the same breath claiming that “X” amount of new prison places have been and are being built, not quite sure of the maths there.

    Surely its time to bring back national service? at least for long term unemployed 17-25 year old’s perhaps only volunteers go to front line or active service but there are many things that conscripts could do to benefit society rather than being a cost or danger to us all. Perhaps the thought of a bit of discipline and respect would make some of them seek alternative gainful employment.

    My 14 year son has recently joined the Air Cadets and already you can see the change in his attitude to responsibility and authority.

  • #85161
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @goodstich44 wrote:

    Mike

    If that carried on from first school days, most would know where they stand. It just seems common sense?

    perhaps it’s just me getting old!!

    Trouble is in our PC society its almost impossible for parents and especially schools to administer discipline

  • #85162
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    jiminspain

    yes indeed, but the crazy thing is, most people i talk to feel like us. Who makes these stupid rules?

    That’s great that your son’s joined air cadets. My lad’s 12 next week. He goes to scouts and gets so much out of it. Can even escape the PC thing there. This week they were bell-boating on the local resovoir. He got tipped out head first in to the muddy cold water and came home looking like a drowned rat!……..so what? he was wearing a life jacked and under supervision. Tough dirty fun!

    Some sort of national service for all boys and girls would be great i think. To some kids, who have had a tough time for whatever reason at home/school , it could even be a life saver? To the rest it would at least be good have on a CV, and probably teach them a few good lessons for life?

  • #85163
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @jiminspain wrote:

    Trouble is in our PC society its almost impossible for parents and especially schools to administer discipline

    According to a new study sponsored by the General Teaching Council (GTC), four in ten new teachers leave the profession within two years, blaming unruly pupils as one of the main reasons.

    When you couple this with the Government’s Office for National Statistics announcing half the children of British-born mothers are being born outside marriage, and research showing that youngsters born outside wedlock face a higher risk of doing badly at school, suffering poor health and of going on to face problems with unemployment, drugs and crime – you have a depressing recipe for disaster brewing if this continues.

    In my opinion, getting youngsters into something where there is ‘positive’ peer pressure such as Jiminspain has done is one of the best ways to keep the young on track. Most children respond to a sense of ‘belonging’ – far better a group like the Air Cadets than a street-corner gang. One should never underestimate how much children can be influenced by their peers, and how keeping ‘bad company’ can undermine anything a parent or school tries to say or do.

    In Greece, all male youngsters have to do a stint of military service, currently 12 months. The general feeling among parents I have spoken to say the discipline together with the camaraderie helps them grow-up almost overnight and leaves them having far more respect for others. It’s almost a pride thing, like “I’ve done my military service, so now I’m an adult”.
    Whether it would work with the UK youngsters? Have no idea!

  • #85165
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Just little things I know but before Air Cadets his cloths would be left where he took them of his room a mess etc etc, yeh typical teenage boy, but now he is responsible for looking after his kit (even irons his own uniform) his attitude to his other cloths has changed. I see him going into cadets saluting to senior officers (albeit only perhaps a year older than him) he said to me I dont have to like them but I do have to respect them, surely thats what all youngster need to learn RESPECT

  • #85166
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    jiminspain wrote:
    I often hear Gordon Brown stating figures at PM’s question time that crime and recorded crime levels are down and almost in the same breath claiming that “X” amount of new prison places have been and are being built, not quite sure of the maths there.

    Surely its time to bring back national service? at least for long term unemployed 17-25 year old’s perhaps only volunteers go to front line or active service but there are many things that conscripts could do to benefit society rather than being a cost or danger to us all. Perhaps the thought of a bit of discipline and respect would make some of them seek alternative gainful employment.

    My 14 year son has recently joined the Air Cadets and already you can see the change in his attitude to responsibility and authority.[/quote.

    I have never believed a word Bliar or Mc Broon have said in the 11 years they have misruled the country.

    Mc Broon´s maths have always been difficult to follow. 2 and 2 has always made 5,with him. Expenditure on the National Health Service always seemed to be double counted, so that he would say this government has spent 1,000 million when it was only 500 million.

    Hopefully the lunatic will soon be gone , followed by another cloned lunatic who will lead Nulabour into the valley of death , the only difference being the Nulabour lot are certainly not gallant . In the Charge of the Light Brigade quite a few of the cavalry survived , hopefully in the next election none of this rabble will survive. Although I am sure most will have lined their pockets with golden pensions, jobs in Europe and industry. I cannot think of such a dispicable ( Synonyms: abject, base, caitiff, cheap, contemptible, detestable, hateful, loathsome, low, mean, miserable, pitiful, scurvy, shabby, slimy, sordid, unworthy, vile, wretched )
    government as this one in history. The founders of the Labour Party must be turnng over in their graves, if they are able to see this rabble destroy everything they stood for.

    I have no great hope in Cameron, but Basil Brush would do a better job than Mc Broon and his rabble. Hopefully a leader will appear who will take Britain by the scruff of the neck and turn it round. History is full of examples.

  • #85167
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    135

    well i think the last lot were worse, which is why this lot got in. We have had low interest and inflation for many years now. I think Gordon did a good job at the start of the labour term. As you say, it’s a long way from the original labour, but i could never vote for a party who ‘s roots were in looking after the wealthy at the expense of the poor. Have they really changed?

    We need a new party!!

  • #85168
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    …….just heard on the news, another 6 knife deaths in last 24 hours.

    how much more evidence do we need that the current system of lack of discipline, lack of respect, justice for the crime etc, is just not working!!

  • #85169
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @135yearswaiting wrote:

    I cannot think of such a dispicable ( Synonyms: abject, base, caitiff, cheap, contemptible, detestable, hateful, loathsome, low, mean, miserable, pitiful, scurvy, shabby, slimy, sordid, unworthy, vile, wretched) government as this one in history.

    135 – am absolutely with you.

    Goodstich – at least under the Tories we never reached this point of interference in absolutely every aspect of life. (link below).
    If I was the parent of this child I would tell them to ‘go hang’ and let them try and take me to court. For once, a good case for Human Rights.
    I’m beginning to think their intention is to beat us into submission through stress/despair.

    Take your pick for the same story:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1034024/Mother-stopped-travelling-son-taxi-school–criminal-record-check.html
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2280784/Mother-prevented-from-taking-own-son-to-school-because-of-criminal-record-checks.html

  • #85170
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    charlie

    of course i’m with you on this sort of thing, and i might well be proved wrong, but i dont see the tories making a better job of things?

    The labour party has many faults, but it was formed due to pig headed bullying tactics of wealthy tories treating the working classes in a dreadful way. As well as many normal people, the jolly hocky sticks/land owning/pro-fox hunting/pig headed snobs brigade are virtually all tory voters. I don’t wish to support that lot, which is why i wish we had another alternative.

  • #85171
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Talk about going off-topic. The hang-em, flog-em brigade busy here at the moment are at least putting forward some reasoned arguments here, unlike the earlier ones blaming immigration and using the Daily Telegraph and Daily Mail as their sources. I always find it strange that immigrants are regular whipping boys on a forum largely dedicated to Brits living in Spain! Can you people even spell irony.

  • #85173
    Profile photo of mike
    mike
    Participant

    @goodstich44 wrote:

    Mike

    thanks for the link. I guess it’s often to late to change people who have grown up with no real discipline, resulting in no respect for anyone. It has to start from home at a young age i think. It doesn’t need to be harsh, just so kids know when not to cross the boundaries. If that carried on from first school days, most would know where they stand. It just seems common sense?

    perhaps it’s just me getting old!!

    Sounds right to me but maybe I’m getting old too.

  • #85174
    Profile photo of mike
    mike
    Participant

    @charlie wrote:

    @135yearswaiting wrote:
    I cannot think of such a dispicable ( Synonyms: abject, base, caitiff, cheap, contemptible, detestable, hateful, loathsome, low, mean, miserable, pitiful, scurvy, shabby, slimy, sordid, unworthy, vile, wretched) government as this one in history.

    135 – am absolutely with you.

    Goodstich – at least under the Tories we never reached this point of interference in absolutely every aspect of life. (link below).
    If I was the parent of this child I would tell them to ‘go hang’ and let them try and take me to court. For once, a good case for Human Rights.
    I’m beginning to think their intention is to beat us into submission through stress/despair.

    Take your pick for the same story:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1034024/Mother-stopped-travelling-son-taxi-school–criminal-record-check.html
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2280784/Mother-prevented-from-taking-own-son-to-school-because-of-criminal-record-checks.html

    Just a thought but I blame the accountants.

    ‘For the protection of the council and all vulnerable persons in its care it’s essential all those endowed with an authority, implicit or explicit, should meet the security requirements within the transport contract provisions.’

    And the security requirements will be influenced by the cost of insuring people and those costs will be lower if the council can prove to the insurers that every person, regardless of relationship, has a CRB check.

    Accountants were the reason behind the infamous “no throwing of sweets” at a pantomime. The more they could demonstrate that they had managed risk the less insurance they paid. I think you will find accountants and/or risk assessors behind most of these decisions.

  • #85175
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @colinB wrote:

    Talk about going off-topic. The hang-em, flog-em brigade busy here at the moment are at least putting forward some reasoned arguments here,

    What suggestions do you have colinB?

    I remember some years ago before we went to Spain so must have been circa 2002 watching breakfast TV and listing to an ex Police Commisioner who was then the Chairman of an organisation protecting the rights of victims of crime. His views seemed pretty radical, his opinion that Britain was past the tipping point and that lawlessness and crime were out of control and within a decade would descend to anarchy!!

    Anyway colinB to get Spain back into the thread, this was by far one of the more pleaseant aspects of living in Spain where in general there are still strong family values, teachers and parents seemed willing and able to punish children, and the police especially the Guardia are still able to do their job. However it seems politicians are the same the world over!!

  • #85177
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Gun and knife crime has increased by 30% in Spain this year.

  • #85178
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    katy

    do you feel that’s because Spaniards are losing old values/morals/religion?, or that we are all barking up the wrong tree with the lack of discipline/respect theory?

  • #85180
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Gun/knife crime increased by 30 per cent!!!!

    Perhaps on your CDS where the Brits with guns and knives live….

  • #85181
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    I wrote SPAIN. Do you follow Spanish news, have you seen the riots in inner city Madrid, Barcelona.

  • #85184
    Profile photo of mike
    mike
    Participant

    @goodstich44 wrote:

    katy

    do you feel that’s because Spaniards are losing old values/morals/religion?, or that we are all barking up the wrong tree with the lack of discipline/respect theory?

    I remember sitting in a bar at 3am with a taxi driver, off duty, who asked me where all the Brits go during the night. I explained to him that they go to bed earlier than the Spaniards and because they go home so early they never see how drunk Spanish people get and think that they are all responsible drinkers. He laughed.

  • #85185
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @colinB wrote:

    Talk about going off-topic……

    I always find it strange that immigrants are regular whipping boys on a forum largely dedicated to Brits living in Spain! Can you people even spell irony.

    For someone complaining about going off-topic, then promptly brings up immigration, I wonder if you know the meaning of irony.

  • #85223
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    Gun and knife crime has increased by 30% in Spain this year.

    Hi Katy,

    did it quote numbers or only %?

  • #85385
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    The topic about UK recession has been confirmed by David Blanchflower one of the members of the BOE MPC who now says the UK is in recession and could be for a year or more unless the BOE cuts interest rates now.

    Prices of everything basically are increasing whilst house prices are falling and could fall as much as 30-40% from peak to trough, peak being last September’s prices. The days of mortgages of 5-6 times earnings are over probably for good, few people are buying property even if they can because they are waiting for these bigger falls in prices, unemployment predicted to rise to 2 million in next 2 years.

    So no remortgaging UK property to buy homes abroad for many years either which coupled with the exchange rate, will mean European property prices likely to fall further too.

    A good time to rent if you can, Home and Away! 😉

  • #85387
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    So no remortgaging UK property to buy homes abroad for many years either which coupled with the exchange rate, will mean European property prices likely to fall further too.
    A good time to rent if you can, Home and Away!

    Angie I think you are correct. From a personal point of view though I hate rented properties and could not bear the thought of having to live in one for two years. I would feel that saving money would not be my priority and count the cost benefit of the quality of my life. If I could find a reasonably good deal on a property which I really liked I would go for it.

    Eg. If I had been looking at property in Spain and my budget had only allowed me to buy in some out of the way area. The slump changed that and I found I could now afford property in a good area close to the sea I would not wait two years.

    Not that I don’t think your advice is sensible though 8)

  • #85389
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    katy, I also agree that if anyone thinks it’s a good time to buy and is happy with the decision, then that too is ok.

    I don’t particularly like renting either, and I think many Brits prefer to buy, even now I’m considering purchasing in the UK but my head is telling me to wait longer, I’m sure there will be better deals in the UK and abroad.

    As for Spain, I think it’s problems could go on for some years yet, it is virtually in recession now and it needs to shake out it’s less reputable property dealers and image before confidence can return. 😉

  • #85393
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi, my first time on here although I’ve been reading with interest the posts concerning buying in Spain. We sold our house in UK with a view to buying a property for our retirement, preferably on the costas. However everything I’ve read in this and other forums has made us too nervous to even consider it at the moment and so we are renting in the UK, not ideal but I feel it’s the best option for us, for now anyway.
    Is there anywhere that’s totally safe to buy in, with all licences in place and planning permits given by the correct authorities? A rhetorical question as I can see it’s an absolute minefield. Or maybe it should be!

  • #85394
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    There are lots of areas that are safe to buy in. Helps if you are actually here and get a bit of knowledge of the area. Buying new or off-plan is a minefield and I would avoid like the plague.

  • #85396
    Profile photo of GJ
    GJ
    Participant

    @jenniferrs12 wrote:

    Hi, my first time on here although I’ve been reading with interest the posts concerning buying in Spain. We sold our house in UK with a view to buying a property for our retirement, preferably on the costas. However everything I’ve read in this and other forums has made us too nervous to even consider it at the moment and so we are renting in the UK, not ideal but I feel it’s the best option for us, for now anyway.
    Is there anywhere that’s totally safe to buy in, with all licences in place and planning permits given by the correct authorities? A rhetorical question as I can see it’s an absolute minefield. Or maybe it should be!

    You seem to be in an ideal position having sold your house in the UK prior to the housing slump there.
    In my opinion it would be best for you to move to Spain ASAP as it is still much less expensive than the UK especially in the winter. HOWEVER RENT in Spain don’t consider buying until your sure you like the area and property prices come down, could be anything up to 5 years.
    Many people will envy your position. Have a happy retirement

  • #85397
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @jenniferrs12 wrote:

    Is there anywhere that’s totally safe to buy in, with all licences in place and planning permits given by the correct authorities? A rhetorical question as I can see it’s an absolute minefield. Or maybe it should be!

    hi.
    choose a costa and try it out for a few months (renting that is)
    A majority of ‘new builds’ are safe and all licences are in place. If you do want to go for something new and it has not got the title deeds yet, ask for a copy of hte DIA. Then check it out with a lawyer of your choosing. It it is finished you are entitle to see the title deads or a ‘nota simple’ which again your lawyer can confirm the legality.

    Also if you are looking at retiring out here, take into account local facilities. It all very nice a good to buy outside of the towns but take into account you’ll have to drive most places, which you or you partner might not find convenient in a few years.

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