Bribery scandal blows a hole in Britons’ Spanish home dreams

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This topic contains 17 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Paul Paul 9 years, 6 months ago.

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  • #52904
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    http://money.guardian.co.uk/property/story/0,,2073427,00.html

    This is a couple of weeks old, hope no-one has already posted the link elsewhere.

  • #72358
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I cannot think why anyone would want to buy in Spain for the foreseeable future. All the sun, sea, and sangria in the world is not worth the nightmare people are finding themselves in. Give me a house in the UK, even when it rains, that I know we legally own, any day.

    Yesterday, a gloriously hot and sunny day, after a fabulous pub lunch, I walked along the riverbank with my husband, daughter and grand-daughter. It was so peaceful. The water was crystal clear and we saw lots of brown trout swimming amongst the watercress beds, along with the Swans, ducks, coots, and moorhens with their young. We even went for a paddle!! The flora was lovely too with clumps of yellow iris along the edges… Bliss! ๐Ÿ˜€

  • #72361
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    Personally if anyone had even hinted, let alone my lawyer assured me
    ” that although the house was “suelo no urbanizable“, licences weren’t a problem”
    I would have run.

  • #72362
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    How’s this for REA bunkum –

    “……And, unsurprisingly, estate agents are keen to calm nerves. Chris McCarthy of Viva Estates in Almeria says
    “‘The problems are largely historical now. There are people with very real problems but I think that’s going to be resolved. This part of Spain is currently about the safest area to buy in because everybody now has to be extremely careful.”

    The safest area to buy in? ……ok ๐Ÿ™„ ๐Ÿ™„ ๐Ÿ™„
    Trying to calm nerves is one thing, but sheer utter bunkum is another.

    Brian Marson, a British property law expert who moved to Marbella in 2003 and set up Legalanswers says “Unfortunately, when people get off their plane at Malaga, they’ve left their brain at Gatwick”.

    Don’t you love this old coconut they keep churning out.
    And what about many of your profession (lawyers) leaving their code of ethics and basic honesty in the bathroom, Brian?

  • #72364
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Just a thought Claire, if you are so adamant that no-one should even consider moving to Spain from the wonderful UK why do you waste so much time on a Spanish property forum?

  • #72365
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Years ago building first and getting permission afterwards was the way things were done by the Spanish. I have come to the conclusion that much that is happening now is anti-Brit/foreigner and the authorities don’t really care as long as the spanish aren’t caught up in the mess.

  • #72367
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Bob – I can answer that one for you – just in case Claire is busy watering the roses in her garden with radio 4 playing in the background!

    Claire, like many of us, still has court cases pending, we’re still learning all the time from other contributors on this forum – plus we like to offer info. to others who find themselves in the same position we were in with the experience/knowledge we’ve gained over the last few years. Every little bit of info. helps. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  • #72368
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Thanks for that Charlie I’m fairly new to this forum! One thought that someone passed on to me was the cultural difference between retired spanish and english. In the UK there is quite a tradition of retired people getting involved with council committees, planning equiry boards etc. Here in Spain not so. Perhaps a few stratigically placed pensioners would moderate planning decisions.

  • #72369
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Thanks for that Charlie. ๐Ÿ˜€ Just out to enjoy another sunny day….before the rain sets in for the Bank Holiday week-end!! ๐Ÿ™

    Tommorrow we are having lunch whilst watching the Kent countryside go by,in the comfort of the Orient Express!

    Just like to add Bob…I don’t waste time on anything that is irrelevant to me! ๐Ÿ˜‰ Time on this forum has been and is, time very well spent!!

  • #72370
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    You will have a wonderful trip on Orient Express Claire, but returning to original topic on a forum local to Albox someone has just posted asking if their lawyer is correct in that the development they have put a deposit on has no licence to build .
    People are living on it already so is there really a problem ๐Ÿ˜ฏ

    This, and former statement I highlighted, give sans credibility to those of us with genuine and, even with hindesight , totally unforeseen problems. Is it any wonder many think Brit’s leave their brains at the airport.
    IMHO some forget to bring them in the first place.

  • #72374
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    Melosine wrote:
    You will have a wonderful trip on Orient Express Claire, but returning to original topic on a forum local to Albox someone has just posted asking if their lawyer is correct in that the development they have put a deposit on has no licence to build .
    People are living on it already so is there really a problem ๐Ÿ˜ฏ

    This, and former statement I highlighted, give sans credibility to those of us with genuine and, even with hindesight , totally unforeseen problems. Is it any wonder many think Brit’s leave their brains at the airport.
    IMHO some forget to bring them in the first place.

    Melosine,I agree that people need to be more circumspect with regards to purchasing property overseas, but being naive and trusting ,should not result in the whole sale abuse and fraud that has occured in the Spainish property market,the numbers of people involved is truly staggering,and will result in confidence dwindling to virtually nothing,if not dealt with correctly by the Spainish authorities.

    Spain is in a unique position within Europe,being the most popular retirement destination,and increasingly the most favoured location for People seeking a life style change,whilst from time to time property scandles occur in northern European countries,these are nothing when compared to the pandemic scale of scandles now unravelling In Spain,a quick chat with locals here in Somerset brought forth an intriguing response,unprompted by me as I wanted to assess peoples genuine views, which were unanimously along the lines of ,nice country for a weeks holiday in the sun ,but none of them considered buying in Spain due to “all those proplems they have there” of course this is not a scientific survey,more of a general chat,interestingly when asked for specifics no one could outline any one major issue, more of a general opinion.

    If left unchecked ,this overal view could prove to be far more devastating to the Spainish property market than anything seen thus far,Spain needs foreign investment ,if this starts to dimminish this could see a property led recession just as catastrophic as they one which occured in the UK during the 1990’s .

  • #72377
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @GSB wrote:

    ……a quick chat with locals here in Somerset …..”all those proplems they have there” …….interestingly when asked for specifics no one could outline any one major issue, more of a general opinion.

    Very interesting point Gary, & emphasises our need to get “all those problems” highlighted & out in the open for all to see.
    http://www.spanishpropertyscandalpetition.co.uk

  • #72380
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    Gary,
    My point being if a lawyer says don’t proceed because a build is illegal and this is then questioned on open forum plus the way the media has presented the problems Brits have only endorses the incompetence of some of the people.
    Thereby anyone with a problem here, though deceit and fraud, is suspected of naivity.
    Meanwhile the abuse by lawyers,promoters and developers in Spain are skimmed over…IMO…because most of the selling originates in UK …it’s all about revenue.

  • #72381
    Profile photo of Paul
    Paul
    Participant

    ๐Ÿ™„ ๐Ÿ˜‰

    Regarding ALL these illegal builds that may be demolished, sales of Land Grab properties and other dubious builds all over Spain, I believe the Spanish Gov’t could be labelled ‘corrupt’ along with those Town Halls, Developers and Agents involved with their mis-selling.

    The reason being, Spain’s Gov’t has merrily and greedily taken the huge Stamp Duties, other property taxes and, VAT on all the Illegal Builds, so if these properties were demolished they would have to hand back all of these taxes. Somehow I can’t see them doing this because of the huge sums involved.

    This may prompt investigation by the EU into Spain’s membership since vast amounts of EU money has gone into their infrastructure like roads, much of which came from large UK contributions to the EU as was reported some while ago.

    Time for corrupt Spanish Ministers to act and fast.

    As Claire and others have said before ‘who in their right mind would now wish to invest or purchase property in Spain’?

  • #72382
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    Melosine wrote:
    Gary,
    My point being if a lawyer says don’t proceed because a build is illegal and this is then questioned on open forum plus the way the media has presented the problems Brits have only endorses the incompetence of some of the people.
    Thereby anyone with a problem here, though deceit and fraud, is suspected of naivity.
    Meanwhile the abuse by lawyers,promoters and developers in Spain are skimmed over…IMO…because most of the selling originates in UK …it’s all about revenue.

    Melosine ,You are right of course there will always be people who are born stupid ,and stay stupid ,and well if you like will end up being taken for a ride at some stage ,in Spain of course you have vast numbers of people who will relieve them of their money ,no problem there,where I think the debate should be heading is about sentiment and confidence.These two factors are taken into account by economists and financiers ,when considering investments and recommendations,and in the world of money
    sentiment is king ,regardless of the detail over where properties are promoted etc ,they are dealt with and concluded in Spain ,The Spainish authorities know what is going on and are best placed to resolve this situation .It therefore comes down to a matter of choice and political will ,do the authorities resolve this situation or not ?.Now we can discuss the semantics of the various issue’s till the cows come home,all the while the grains of time are falling through the hour glass.

    I have already outlined a small impromptu survey of people’s opinion’s in respect of property buying in Spain, It was not good.The bigger picture here is that time is running out for the authorities to restore that all important confidence in the Spainish property market ,my wife who is German remarked the other day that it is common Knowlege in Germany that you have to excercise extreme caution when purchasing a property in Spain,the German media have made a point of warning potential buyers of the pitfalls (of buying in Spain), the same advice has been issued in Holland.

    If allowed ,the erosion of confidence will result in buyers staying away ,Spain has experinced a brief but brutal property recession before,
    Turn of the tap of inward investment ,and the picture looks bleak.The cost to the authorities of taking mature and statesman like lead in intervening now in order to resolve the issues/scandals ,would be the mark of a logical shrewd and capable goverment .Or they (the Govt) can continue to plod along and watch the situation decline,then the cost’s involved will be astonomical.Pride comes before a fall ,and this fall could be from a very great height indeed ,no matter who you are, you cannot beat the market

  • #72395
    Profile photo of Paul
    Paul
    Participant

    ๐Ÿ˜ก

    Just to add to my opinion of Spain’s Gov’t Corruption, I found this in the S. Times article of May 6th by David Budworth.

    Quote: ‘The Spanish property market has run into trouble as Overdevelopment on the coast, POLITICAL CORRUPTION, and Rising Interest Rates have triggered price falls in some areas popular with British buyers’

    IMO it’s the Spanish Gov’t who are as much to blame for property corruption as the dodgy dealers, and it’s the Gov’t who should lead by example by punishing the crooks, but we all know their Gov’t can’t resist the huge tax revenues generated through property etc.

  • #72396
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    At a meeting recently with the local mayor, one homeowner asked when she would be issued with her first occupation licence. None of the new houses built around the area of the village in the last 4 or 5 years have been issued with one.

    The mayor replied that all the houses were now legal as they had been entered into the Catastral by the town hall and the occupation licence was no longer needed. All that was needed now was the tax receipt.

    I welcome the comments of one of the lawyers on the forum.

    The taxes referred to, would they be local taxes payable to the town hall, or national taxes?

  • #72423
    Profile photo of Paul
    Paul
    Participant

    ๐Ÿ˜‰

    arabrab, I’d also welcome a comment from their Gov’t regarding property corruption!

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