Black Money!

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This topic contains 13 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 9 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #53196
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi all.

    I’m looking for some advice about the ‘black money’ issue if possible.

    I’m selling my property and have been told by my estate agent that the Spanish buyers would like to pay 60,000 euros in ‘black money’. This seems quite odd to me as normally I’d expect it to be the other way around i.e. the vendor (me in this case) would be the one asking for cash payment from the buyer in an attempt to avoid paying CGT.

    I have nothing to gain from this scenario either way as there will be no profit on my sale in any case, so what can the angle be? Is this some kind of scam that I’m unaware of or do the vendors just need to get rid of 60,000 euros in cash?

    Any advice would be much appreciated.

  • #75352
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Black money is like a cancer in Spain. You will never have to accept cash from this type of people.

    You never will know were this money come from but surely from bad activities like fraud, drugs, prostitution, etc…

    Also if you do business with people who prefer black money you are more likely to find people that will try to scam you.

  • #75353
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Besides it being illegal, they could try to fool you at the Notaries. Once you sign at completion the declared value is the only value, so if they promised to pay you after the notary walked out of the room they can just simply deny it and walk away and you couldn’t possibly claim this amount legally as you yourself would be in trouble.

    If you can avoid it, do so, besides as I already posted, it’s illegal.

    And incidentally, to the poster above, black money doesn’t come exclusively from all that, it comes mainly from tax evasion, which is also a crime although more condoned by society. Don’t stick everyone in the same bag please.

  • #75355
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Drakan wrote:

    Besides it being illegal, they could try to fool you at the Notaries. Once you sign at completion the declared value is the only value, so if they promised to pay you after the notary walked out of the room they can just simply deny it and walk away and you couldn’t possibly claim this amount legally as you yourself would be in trouble.

    Am not condoning this, but we ALL know how difficult it still is to BUY without the BM issue being raised. I swore I would never again pay BM, but when it comes to it, you may have no choice (if you really want the property) and the vast majority of sellers still demand BM.
    If this is going to be the difference between achieving a sale or not, then to avoid the potential problem that Drakan raises, I guess you could insist that the BM is paid before entering the Notary and that the notes are checked for forgeries. Their motive is more likely to be not wanting to put a large sum of money through their bank, for tax purposes rather than something more sinister…and it will reduce their buying costs a little if the declared escritura value is lower…
    What have you said to your agents?

  • #75356
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi,

    I wouldnt touch it at all. Im assuming that you are selling the property for about the same price that you paid for it as you said there is no profit. If you take the 60,000, the price of the property will be officially 60,000 less on the deeds. I think if you tried to decalre a 60,000 loss then some questions will be asked by the authorities, especially if they decided to look at a few other sales prices in the area.

    Kind regards

    Bernard

  • #75359
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    i would phone up the hacienda and tell them. they may let you go through with it so they can nail the dodgers.

  • #75360
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    The advantage to the buyers is they avoid the purchase tax and they offer it to you as you avoid capital gains tax on any profit.

    Whilst the declared figure will be lower it will have to be sensible and the buyers will have the risk of Hacienda coming after them in the future if it is deemed to be a fiddle. Having said that I do know of sellers who got clobbered after taking cash, hacienda caught up with them and as they were still living in a new property in Spain, they had to pay 35k in back tax and fines!!!

    It does still go on albeit in smaller amounts.

    Its up to you if you decide whether of not to take it but you could be done at notary – robbed afterwards or stung by the taxman!

    If you sont accept you may lose the deal – or you may not, but be careful.

  • #75364
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @hillybilly wrote:

    @Drakan wrote:
    Besides it being illegal, they could try to fool you at the Notaries. Once you sign at completion the declared value is the only value, so if they promised to pay you after the notary walked out of the room they can just simply deny it and walk away and you couldn’t possibly claim this amount legally as you yourself would be in trouble.

    Am not condoning this, but we ALL know how difficult it still is to BUY without the BM issue being raised. I swore I would never again pay BM, but when it comes to it, you may have no choice (if you really want the property) and the vast majority of sellers still demand BM.”

    We recently walked away from this situation – our lawyer advised against it so that was that. The seller then refused to sell (and she was English!!). Just because it’s difficult to buy without the issue being raised doesn’t make it right. It’s still fraud whichever way you look at it!

  • #75365
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    cath

    good for you, for doing the right thing. What chance of change for the better if this sort of practice is still regarded as some way acceptable?

  • #75382
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Just to reiterate my situation here, I’m the vendor. I’m not buying a property in Spain and when (and if) I manage to sell my property, I’ll be transferring the funds back here to dear old blighty faster than you can say cerveza!!

    I’ve told the estate agent that I’ll seek advice about the subject but in reality I don’t want to lose a sale. However, I also don’t want to be in trouble with the Spanish authorities and I really don’t need thousands of euros in cash.

    How different things still are in Spain, I simply can’t imagine an estate agent in the UK being prepared to put their career on the line by emailing a vendor with black and white suggestions of tax fraud. Unbelievable!!

  • #75383
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Jonners – your potential Spanish buyers are maybe quite confident that their illegal actions will have no comeback for them from the authorities. Not surprising, with the injustices we are hearing daily. Although I did read somewhere some months ago that property transactions were being computerised in an attempt to bring BM to an end. Can’t find it at the moment though, sorry…

    Wonder if they’ve thought ahead at all, & the problems/tax implications they’d face when re-selling in the future to someone who refuses to pay in Black Money.
    Or maybe they still think they will be above The Law then too 🙄

  • #75385
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Imagine how deep is the BM practise here in Spain that when a lottery game is won in a city quickly the bankers are looking for the winners in order to offer them money from one of the locals business mens so they can convert BM in legal money with the lottery tickets.

    Yes you have heard correctly. Are the same directors of the bank officess who offer the winners a bit more of the prize but in BM.

  • #75387
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Petepara:
    This is old established way of converting BM into white used world over. In addition to the lottery winning, the same is also be practised from casino winnings.

  • #75433
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Moves afoot to deal with the issue of under decleration, hope action is taken to sort out other problems involved when buying Spanish Property

    http://www.kyero.com/news

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