Banks as landlords

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This topic contains 18 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 7 years ago.

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  • #55301
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    It seems the banks in Spain plan to become letting landlords in an attempt to generate revenues from the millions of repo properties they have on their books. Read one example.

    http://www.oportunidadescam.es/alquiler.asp

    I have also heard rumours that they are trying to persuade the government to buy or take over their burden by offering empty properties as social housing. There is a high level of homeless people in Spain, especially among illegal immigrants.
    This may be worthy but what if they arrive at a development near you or perhaps next door?
    The current Spanish government has strong socialist policies and seem to be doing their level best to bury the private property market permanently.
    CGT on residential property, increased taxes on purchase, higher IVA planned, punitive inheritance tax.
    Is there any wonder investors stay away.

  • #95107
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Spain always have this ethos ” You got it I will grab it ” Other factors make it a perfect mix for not investing. Sunshine is not enough to support a population of nearly 55 million.

  • #95112
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I think the CAM bank examples are just the really poor quality and/or overpriced properties that they cannot ever sell. I have seen one of these properties, and no-one in there right mind would rent it. CAM’s purchase price on that property was probably around 100000€ too high for anyone to consider buying. It needed loads of work to get it habitable.

    I guess CAM just loaned too much on that mortgage, hence the unrealistic asking price.

  • #95116
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    El anciano wrote:
    I think the CAM bank examples are just the really poor quality and/or overpriced properties that they cannot ever sell. I have seen one of these properties, and no-one in there right mind would rent it. CAM’s purchase price on that property was probably around 100000€ too high for anyone to consider buying. It needed loads of work to get it habitable.

    I guess CAM just loaned too much on that mortgage, hence the unrealistic asking price.

    I have looked at brochures from La Caixa and Bancaja , it seems prices are related to the size of the mortgage rather than market conditions.

  • #95117
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Yes, that seems about right from what I have seen.

  • #95119
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    Yes that is correct. One of my banker contacts admitted to me that at the moment , quote “the banks are asleep”. What he means is they are unable or unwilling to deal with their problems and simply bury their corporate heads in the sand and hope for miracles. The situation is now so serious soon it will make the US sub-prime situation seem just a blip.
    However never fear the ECB will ride to the rescue and bail out the country.

  • #95121
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I wonder what an ECB bailout is likely to do to the property market. Anyone care to speculate?

  • #95124
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “What he means is they are unable or unwilling to deal with their problems and simply bury their corporate heads in the sand and hope for miracles “

    I am afraid this is how Spain works. They lack the capacity to assess the situation & take the necessary measures, no matter how hard or bitter the decision is. Thus shrugging the shoulder & pasa nada.

    Senior Managers are not matured enough to accept the realities & prefer to shoot the messenger. This manner of dealing with things will not prepare the Managers of tomorrow while India, China & Brazil charges on.

  • #95126
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    However never fear the ECB will ride to the rescue and bail out the country.

    Yes if need be.

    I wonder what an ECB bailout is likely to do to the property market. Anyone care to speculate?

    What can it do but make it better, you cant devalue the currency.

    There is an order to things here, firstly all the lenders will get/are getting support from the The Bank of Spain, it will be this institution that gets the ECB support, there will be a plan, all the real dogs will end up as social housing.

    3 years time, all back to normal and starting over again.

  • #95127
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Stevev6 wrote:

    , all the real dogs will end up as social housing.

    About 1 million+ properties? Wow, that’s a lot of social housing…

  • #95130
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    In actual fact the ECB has already supported Spanish Banks with billions of Euros. There is an old thread on here somewhere relating to the clandestine method they use to avoid a collapse of confidence (aka UK Northern Rock). There can be little doubt that sooner of later some banks will fail, mergers are already taking place but receive very little publicity.
    In my view ECB aid to Spain will make not one jot of difference to the market. Recovery elsewhere such as UK will have more effect. Even then it will be a long time before capital growth returns, at least 5 years in my judgement.

  • #95135
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Logan wrote:
    Yes that is correct. One of my banker contacts admitted to me that at the moment , quote “the banks are asleep”. What he means is they are unable or unwilling to deal with their problems and simply bury their corporate heads in the sand and hope for miracles. The situation is now so serious soon it will make the US sub-prime situation seem just a blip.
    However never fear the ECB will ride to the rescue and bail out the country
    .

    Well, what a nice picture: “their corporate heads in the sand and hope for miracles”.
    I don’t know where you found that information, but I read every day the economics news,…and the picture is different.
    The same healthy picture have Moody, Fritch,…and other agencies,…so your information must be a very privilege one, that type of information have a huge value in economic terms.
    You shouldn’t be giving it for free, when you could earn a fortune using that information (enough to buy a palace) in the “future stock and currency options market”…you never will have a better opportunity to became rich.

    PD- By the way, in the last weeks (and with their heads in the sand) BBVA have bought a bank in Texas (USA) becoming the second bank in that state, and Santander have bought the credit business in USA to HSBC…and any of them have received a single coin from the Spanish government.

  • #95136
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    What a silly response!

    🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄

  • #95137
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    Yes, very silly. However the serious posters on here do sometimes have a point of view worth reading.
    Banco Santander is one of the exceptional Spanish banks very well managed, who made some strategic acquissions some time ago which have born fruit. Not all banks in Spain are in trouble I refer only to the ones that are and naming them serves no purpose.
    Whenever I read of a ‘market upturn’ and all the other adjectives those with vested interests write, I grimace with amusement and a little anger. Since I am involved professionally with markets on a daily, nay hourly basis I can speak with some authority. If I thought I could make some money in the property market in Spain I would be in it. Right now I would not touch it with a very long pole.

  • #95138
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    @El anciano wrote:

    What a silly response!

    🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄

    Yes, what do you expect from Frank 😉

  • #95139
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Dear Anciano and Logan:

    Braves as a lions with the words,…but you can not follow your words with your own money.

    What is silly is your simple replay,…simple and impolite,…that speak a lot about yourself.

    I have named the two biggest banks,…you named which ones?,…can you explain your sentence with arguments or not.

    Perhaps you don’t remember your own brave words, I will copy to you again:
    The situation is now so serious soon it will make the US sub-prime situation seem just a blip.
    However never fear the ECB will ride to the rescue and bail out the country
    .

    If you are so sure about your words,…go on and RISK YOUR MONEY,…
    or you really don’t give any value at all to your own words?,…Regards

  • #95141
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Dear Anciano and Logan:
    I have been searching for DATA:
    • Total amount of money lend from the BCE to the Euro Bank system (Oct 2009) = 586.961 millions Euros.
    • Total amount of money lend from the BCE to the Spanish Bank system (Oct 2009) = 82.534 millions Euros. That is the 14% of the total, accurate to the size to the Spanish economy in the Euro zone.
    • The Spanish government created the FROB (Fondo de Reestructuracion Ordenada Bancaria) to manage the banking crisis, with an initial capital of 9.000 millions Euros and with a capacity to obtain another 90.000 millions Euros…If needed.
    • By the moment any capital have been used.
    That are the official DATA from Banco de España and BCE.
    Now compare them to another Banking Systems… I suppose you have an idea of the amount of that DATA (to compare with)…

    How you could write?: “The situation is now so serious soon it will make the US sub-prime situation seem just a blip.
    However never fear the ECB will ride to the rescue and bail out the country”.

    PD- To help people to make a good decision you should give DATA and arguments, not personal insults or what you wish should happen.
    I am quite sure you are not going to risk you own money,…using that “privilege information”. But, imagine what can happen if some one take your sentences seriously and put his money in the future stock and currency options market?….
    Regards.

  • #95142
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    If you are really interested in EU economics read this.
    http://www.rgemonitor.com/euro-monitor/257699/how_will_the_ecb_ever_manage_to_stop_funding_spanish_government_debt
    You will see from this article that ECB funding for Spanish banks in 2009 is close to 80€ billion and rising.
    Also – http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/2783431/ECB-aid-to-Spanish-banks-matches-Rock-rescue.html
    The extent of corporate and public debt in Spain is truly a massive problem and an ‘elephant in the room’.
    Here is a more recent article on future prospects for the Spanish economy.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/6228390/Spain-tips-into-depression.html

  • #95143
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I have read the articles,…and they don’t said nothing new,…They said what is well know for every one,…and the same that I already wrote:
    (PD- 1 billion American terms = 1.000 millions)
    You wrote:
    You will see from this article that ECB funding for Spanish banks in 2009 is close to 80€ billion.
    I already have replayed to you:
    • Total amount of money lend from the BCE to the Euro Bank system (Oct 2009) = 586.961 millions Euros.
    • Total amount of money lend from the BCE to the Spanish Bank system (Oct 2009) = 82.534 millions Euros. That is the 14% of the total, accurate to the size to the Spanish economy in the Euro zone
    .
    Well,… where is the problem?….???

    Now compare them to another Banking Systems… I suppose you have an idea of the amount of that DATA (to compare with)…
    • About the Spanish public,…that debt will rise from the 37% of the PIB to near to 74% of the PIB in 2012,…Yes, that’s a lot!!!,…but 10 points behind the average debt of the Euro zone countries debt in that date.

    Mr Edward, have just an opinion,… and like you, quite sure he will not risk his money with that opinion,…He really don’t have any responsibility of what he write,…his only responsibility is to sell what he write,… the target of what he write is people like you who will love that a catastrophe will happen to Spain,…but that ´s all…as important as Nostredamus prophecies or Maya calendar.

    The people who really risk his money, the people who have responsibilities,… the people who make the market, the international agency as Moody, Fritch,.. have (as I said to you) another opinions…That’s all.

    PD- Although we are complaining, I wouldn’t like you lost any money,…so in my opinion don’t risk your money with that extravagant information.
    Regards.

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