Are the property sold by banks safe? Do banks take offers?

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This topic contains 33 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of angie angie 4 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #57110
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Say an apt. in an apartment building, something like this

    http://www.solvia.es/Piso-en-Denia-4-dormitorios/18538_3/vivienda_21099.html

    What can go wrong when buying such apartment?

    Do you know if the banks take offers on what they have on sale (after the 25% off)?

  • #112881
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    You’ll do well to negotiate that apartment down from 37.500€. If it’s what you’re after and you know the area then at that price I’d buy it.

    What can go wrong? Well it might have outstanding debts against it, and the building might have problems. Try to speak to the administrador for the building – they will know if there are any problems with the building, and if the previous owners owe anything to the community. Also get hold of the nota simple, or get a lawyer to do it for you. That should also show any outstanding mortgages against the flat.

    Also, if you are in the area, try to speak to the consierge.

  • #112882
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    Chopera wrote:
    You’ll do well to negotiate that apartment down from 37.500€. If it’s what you’re after and you know the area then at that price I’d buy it.

    What can go wrong? Well it might have outstanding debts against it, and the building might have problems. Try to speak to the administrador for the building – they will know if there are any problems with the building, and if the previous owners owe anything to the community. Also get hold of the nota simple, or get a lawyer to do it for you. That should also show any outstanding mortgages against the flat.

    Also, if you are in the area, try to speak to the consierge.

    Thank you Chopera. I am trying to decide between a new build and some older in Marina Alta or South Valencia region

    New build would be something like

    http://www.solvia.es/Piso-en-Denia-1-dormitorio/24091_1/vivienda_29661.html

    Maybe newbuilt could have less problems with nota simple and such.

  • #112885
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    Yes if it doesn’t have a previous owner then it won’t have outstanding debts. I suspect you’ll have higher maintenance charges on the new build, and that one looks a bit far from the beach. Also be aware that the new build appears to be just to the north of the Montgo, so it might not get much sun in winter – in fact it might be damp and cold. And of course Denia is windy – but I guess you’ll know that.

  • #112886
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    Sound advice Chopera. I would just add that bank owned properties on urbanisations are obliged to take on the legal burden of the arrears in community charge from the previous owner and pay it. Your lawyer will obtain a certificate from the community administrator stating the property is debt free.

    Never buy a property in Spain without a trusted lawyer with a good track record and never one recommend by any seller/agent.

  • #112890
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    Chopera wrote:
    Yes if it doesn’t have a previous owner then it won’t have outstanding debts. I suspect you’ll have higher maintenance charges on the new build, and that one looks a bit far from the beach. Also be aware that the new build appears to be just to the north of the Montgo, so it might not get much sun in winter – in fact it might be damp and cold. And of course Denia is windy – but I guess you’ll know that.

    Thank you again Chopera.

    I forgot the maintenance charges issue. Around how much would it be for an old apartment in a block of flats without any gardens or swimming pools? I know that it can reach 100 Euros/month for one with swimming pools and gardens.

  • #112891
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    logan wrote:
    I would just add that bank owned properties on urbanisations are obliged to take on the legal burden of the arrears in community charge from the previous owner and pay it. Your lawyer will obtain a certificate from the community administrator stating the property is debt free.

    So is the bank obliged to pay for arrears in community charge or the new owner?

  • #112892
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    @ralita wrote:

    So is the bank obliged to pay for arrears in community charge or the new owner?

    The Banks. They cannot legally sell a property with any previous debts attached to it unless the buyer is willing to pay them of course. In practice the banks pay the community charge because they are legally obliged to as owners.

  • #112893
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    Anonymous
    Participant
    logan wrote:
    ralita wrote:
    So is the bank obliged to pay for arrears in community charge or the new owner?

    The Banks. They cannot legally sell a property with any previous debts attached to it unless the buyer is willing to pay them of course. In practice the banks pay the community charge because they are legally obliged to as owners.

    Thank you logan.

    I guess there could not be any arrears in the mortgages as the banks sell the apartments. I guess for old apartmentsd there can’t be many other catches, except that prices might be 20% lower in a couple of months. :)))

  • #112895
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @ralita wrote:

    @chopera wrote:
    Yes if it doesn’t have a previous owner then it won’t have outstanding debts. I suspect you’ll have higher maintenance charges on the new build, and that one looks a bit far from the beach. Also be aware that the new build appears to be just to the north of the Montgo, so it might not get much sun in winter – in fact it might be damp and cold. And of course Denia is windy – but I guess you’ll know that.

    Thank you again Chopera.

    I forgot the maintenance charges issue. Around how much would it be for an old apartment in a block of flats without any gardens or swimming pools? I know that it can reach 100 Euros/month for one with swimming pools and gardens.

    I really can’t say. It depends on how many flats there are (the more flats, the more the costs get spread around) and also how inclined the neighbours are to spend money on maintenance. Also if it has shared heating (calefacción central) then that should be included in the fees. In Madrid I’d guess in an old 2 bed flat without calefacción central I’d expect to pay about 50€/month, I currently live in a 4 bed flat (no pool but with calefacción central) and pay €135/month.

    If the maintenance costs seem high then again you should check with the administrador – I pulled out of a purchase once for this very reason, the costs seemed high and the administrador told me that they had to spend extra money each year filling in cracks that kept appearing in the building.

  • #112896
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    Yes that’s my best guess. Although property at levels of €37k will soon start to sell and the best examples will go first leaving mainly rubbish behind.

    I repeat my maxim. If you need a place to live and work in Spain and you are young enough (under 50) buy when you think the price has bottomed out. If it’s for recreational use don’t, just rent. Remember a tenant cannot be legally obliged to pay either community charge or local council tax or any other tax. (except income tax if resident). 🙂

    You can if you look hard enough rent a reasonable coastal apartments for €300k a month long term furnished. That’s €3,600 a year and no charges except utilities. If you use it three or four times a year for holidays great value, no ties, no risk, no hassle, no maintenance. It’s a no brainer folks. 😆

  • #112898
    Profile photo of GJ
    GJ
    Participant

    Logan wrote

    You can if you look hard enough rent a reasonable coastal apartments for €300k a month long term furnished. That’s €3,600 a year and no charges except utilities. If you use it three or four times a year for holidays great value, no ties, no risk, no hassle, no maintenance. It’s a no brainer folks.

    Add on the flights to your 3 or 4 visits. Work out utilities for a year
    Not a no brainer from the UK
    3/4 package tour visits to a hotel would be far cheaper.

    even at 300 a month never mind 300K 😆 😆 😆

  • #112899
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    We know of apartments on some inland golf courses for rent at 350-400 euros per month to include utilities, such is the pressure on the owners to get something rather than nothing.

    This is inexpensive/cheap living without the problems and costs of ownership, and an ideal way for those considering buying to get to know the areas, and who knows, in a year’s time we might know the outcome of Spain’s possible bailout or not and whether they will leave the Euro or not, so renting is a really good option 🙄

    Also, it’s ideal for Brits wanting to escape the UK Winter and then return for Spring/Summer, it’s probably cheaper than living in the UK during the Winter months 😛

  • #112900
    Profile photo of GJ
    GJ
    Participant

    We know of apartments on some inland golf courses for rent at 350-400 euros per month to include utilities, such is the pressure on the owners to get something rather than nothing.

    Do you mean this one Angie

    viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6110&p=58659#p58659

    or perhaps Alhaurin Golf!!! 😆 😆 😆

  • #112902
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Not only that one Garry James 😆 😆 😆

    Several others too, 😆 the point is there are some desperate owners prepared to rent out their flats/town houses for very little 🙄

  • #112904
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    Chopera wrote:

    I really can’t say. It depends on how many flats there are (the more flats, the more the costs get spread around) and also how inclined the neighbours are to spend money on maintenance. Also if it has shared heating (calefacción central) then that should be included in the fees. In Madrid I’d guess in an old 2 bed flat without calefacción central I’d expect to pay about 50€/month, I currently live in a 4 bed flat (no pool but with calefacción central) and pay €135/month.

    Thank you again.

    Considering that the costs for maintenance are 50€/month, what are the other annual/monthly taxes that one needs to pay for a block of flats apartment?

    Also, are the Spanish banks replying by email/phone to any inquiries regarding their properties or one needs to visit their branches in person?

  • #112905
    Profile photo of GJ
    GJ
    Participant

    the point is there are some desperate owners prepared to rent out their flats/town houses for very little
    Not arguing with that Angie. In fact if someone is thinking of buying to live in Spain I would suggest rent first unless they have considerable knowledge of the market and the area.
    But to suggest renting long term for a holiday home for 3/4 visits is SILLY

  • #112906
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    First choose the place then search for an 11 month rental if you plan holidays more than once or twice a year or long winters. Don’t take the first one you see, look harder there are some real deals to be had. If you don’t like it, nothing lost just leave and find another. There are many on offer and it’s a long term renters paradise.

    Getting back to the posters original question. No property is 100% safe in Spain. However banks are likely to have done most of the paper work already especially if it’s a repossession and your lawyer will check it through. Be careful however banks are still capable of selling on illegal properties. Anything is possible in Spain. 🙄

  • #112907
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Garry James stop banging your head in Swansea 😆 😆

    Read my post, I don’t think I’ve said ‘renting long term for a holiday home for 3/4 visits’, think you’ll find you said that SILLY 😆 😆

    I said ‘renting for Brits wanting to escape the UK Winter’ which I might say does appeal to many Brits, nothing about 3-4 flights, that was you in one of your previous posts 😆

  • #112908
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    We are in the 3rd year of renting our property long term in Florida to a New Yorker who spends around 4 to 5 months in it but pays a good yearly rent. He is a TV producer and works in NY and Naples. He seems happy enough to do it, suits us as less wear and tear. 😀 Perhpas his company pays for it!

  • #112909
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @ralita wrote:

    @chopera wrote:

    I really can’t say. It depends on how many flats there are (the more flats, the more the costs get spread around) and also how inclined the neighbours are to spend money on maintenance. Also if it has shared heating (calefacción central) then that should be included in the fees. In Madrid I’d guess in an old 2 bed flat without calefacción central I’d expect to pay about 50€/month, I currently live in a 4 bed flat (no pool but with calefacción central) and pay €135/month.

    Thank you again.

    Considering that the costs for maintenance are 50€/month, what are the other annual/monthly taxes that one needs to pay for a block of flats apartment?

    Council tax (IBI), bin collection tax, and they have been considering taxing second properties owned ny non-residents but I’m not sure how far they’ve got with that. That’s what I can think of anyway.

    What are you planning on using the flat for? (if you don’t mind me asking)

    @ralita wrote:

    Also, are the Spanish banks replying by email/phone to any inquiries regarding their properties or one needs to visit their branches in person?

    I have enquired through Altamira/Santander in the past – by phoning the number on their website (you have the option of speaking to someone in English) – and they have in the first instance taken my details and then got a local agent handling the property in question to phone me back a few days later and provide more details, and arrange a viewing. I’m pretty sure they handle enquiries via their website as well. There is no need to go into a branch. I expect Solvia is the same. Really the thing to do is enquire about the properties that interest you as soon as possible, and then get them to provide more details (this thread should provide you with some questions to ask)

  • #112910
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @gj wrote:

    the point is there are some desperate owners prepared to rent out their flats/town houses for very little
    Not arguing with that Angie. In fact if someone is thinking of buying to live in Spain I would suggest rent first unless they have considerable knowledge of the market and the area.
    But to suggest renting long term for a holiday home for 3/4 visits is SILLY

    Doesn’t it depend on how long those visits are? If each visit lasts say 2 or 3 months then it makes sense to me.

  • #112911
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Exactly Chopera 😛

    We’ve rented in Spain for 8 months and still flown back to UK twice in that time and found it very reasonable in price compared to Winter heating, clothing etc, and we’ve rented for 2 months at a time and one of us has flown back when necessary.

    I also could not find anything ‘silly’ in that, it’s like having the best of both worlds. 😛

  • #112912
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    Of course I should have clarified a few weeks as a minimum each time. It would make no sense just 3 weeks a year. Really it’s an ideal for retired people who have more time.

    The principle of retiring abroad now is different to that of twenty years ago, there is much more choice and little need to risk buying.

    Most people who sell up and move to Spain to retire without years before of living abroad bitterly regret it, especially now the option of selling up has gone. The pull of family and friends and the familiarity of their former life never leaves them.

  • #112913
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    Chopera wrote:
    Council tax (IBI), bin collection tax, and they have been considering taxing second properties owned ny non-residents but I’m not sure how far they’ve got with that. That’s what I can think of anyway.

    What are you planning on using the flat for? (if you don’t mind me asking)

    Just for our use , probably around 16-17 weeks per years for us and our relatives.

  • #112914
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    they have been considering taxing second properties owned ny non-residents

    None resident property owners are taxed on the notional rental income. Not sure how it’s calculated but it’s 25%.

  • #112915
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    Anonymous
    Participant
    Chopera wrote:
    Council tax (IBI), bin collection tax, and they have been considering taxing second properties owned ny non-residents but I’m not sure how far they’ve got with that. That’s what I can think of anyway.

    I looked over other posts (jp1, Fuengi) and they seem to quote about 1000 Euro per year for expenses outside heating+ electricity and community charges.

    That would be then about at least 2200-2300 Euros including community charges and heating+ electricity.

    8 weeks of rentals can cost about the same… I go in Denia area for £320 for 2 weeks around Christmas – New year eve. So I am not quite sure

  • #112916
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @ralita wrote:

    @chopera wrote:

    Council tax (IBI), bin collection tax, and they have been considering taxing second properties owned ny non-residents but I’m not sure how far they’ve got with that. That’s what I can think of anyway.

    What are you planning on using the flat for? (if you don’t mind me asking)

    Just for our use , probably around 16-17 weeks per years for us and our relatives.

    OK – just wanted to check whether you planned on renting it out as that introduces other factors.

    I noticed there are a couple of other new urbanizations in Denia with various flats on offer:

    http://www.solvia.es/Piso-en-Denia-1-dormitorio/23662_34/vivienda_28790.html

    http://www.solvia.es/Apartamento-en-Denia-1-dormitorio/18214_4/vivienda_20761.html

    This last one seems best located, but not spectacularly cheap

  • #112917
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    Denia is cold in the winter. So is Javea, damp also because of that bl~~~y hill. Know your market and how you want to use the property. West of Malaga is winter territory but Agadir in Morocco is much better. 🙂

  • #112922
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @ralita wrote:

    @chopera wrote:

    Council tax (IBI), bin collection tax, and they have been considering taxing second properties owned ny non-residents but I’m not sure how far they’ve got with that. That’s what I can think of anyway.

    I looked over other posts (jp1, Fuengi) and they seem to quote about 1000 Euro per year for expenses outside heating+ electricity and community charges.

    That would be then about at least 2200-2300 Euros including community charges and heating+ electricity.

    8 weeks of rentals can cost about the same… I go in Denia area for £320 for 2 weeks around Christmas – New year eve. So I am not quite sure

    Yup I’ve been keeping an eye on Javea (and Denia to an extent) but I always end up doing the same sums as you, and they always work out in favour of renting. It’s frustrating because you see properties like these at vastly reduced prices and instinct tells you that there must be some point where buying beats renting, but when you add in the costs, renting still comes out on top most of the time. It seems buying only really makes sense if you’re after a cheap permanent home or if the value of the property goes up, and that ain’t going to happen for a fair few years yet.

  • #112928
    Profile photo of GJ
    GJ
    Participant

    @chopera wrote:

    @gj wrote:
    the point is there are some desperate owners prepared to rent out their flats/town houses for very little
    Not arguing with that Angie. In fact if someone is thinking of buying to live in Spain I would suggest rent first unless they have considerable knowledge of the market and the area.
    But to suggest renting long term for a holiday home for 3/4 visits is SILLY

    Doesn’t it depend on how long those visits are? If each visit lasts say 2 or 3 months then it makes sense to me.

    So lets see 4 visits for 3 months errrrrrrrrrr!!!

    I think that will work as well 😆 😆

  • #112933
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @gj wrote:

    @chopera wrote:
    @gj wrote:
    the point is there are some desperate owners prepared to rent out their flats/town houses for very little
    Not arguing with that Angie. In fact if someone is thinking of buying to live in Spain I would suggest rent first unless they have considerable knowledge of the market and the area.
    But to suggest renting long term for a holiday home for 3/4 visits is SILLY

    Doesn’t it depend on how long those visits are? If each visit lasts say 2 or 3 months then it makes sense to me.

    So lets see 4 visits for 3 months errrrrrrrrrr!!!

    I think that will work as well 😆 😆

    Yeah I wrote “If each visit lasts say 2 or 3 months…” with the implication that if someone visits 4 times then the average length of stay would be less than 3 months, and if someone visits only 3 times it could be more. I assumed most people could work that out for themselves. Please accept my apologies.

  • #112936
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    GJ you really are a head banger.

    I suggested annual long tern renting because people always say that their reason they buy a holiday home is they want to create a home from home in Spain. Have their own things there to enhance their experience etc, etc.

    Renting annually long term allows you to do that without the enormous capital risk, and being stuck in a place you no longer enjoy, paying community charges, council tax and non residents taxes. The monthly rent pales into insignificance alongside the costs and risks of buying. Invested capital would almost pay the costs.

    If you don’t like it give a months notice and find somewhere else. Simple.

    Of course you have to be sure you can spend sufficient time there to justify it. As Chopera said people can work that out for themselves.

    In my opinion it’s a great opportunity largely created by the over building, people buying and making a financial mistake and the decade past of boom and bust. It’s an ill wind indeed that blows nobody any good.

  • #112937
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    I think most of us here have agreed it makes good sense to rent either long term in Spain, especially during the UK Winter, or even for 2 or 3 months as and when or just for a break.

    Far less worrying than costs involved with ownership and Eurozone problems with more likely to come and cheaper too, holidays are ok in hotels for a couple of weeks, but would be expensive for several months Garry James. 🙄

    Stop banging your head Garry James in Swansea it’s not good for your health 😆

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