An unexpected upturn in Sales! – Possibly!!!

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This topic contains 60 replies, has 20 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew) Fuengi (Andrew) 6 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #53977
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Just an observation really. But throughout last week and continuing this week (so far) we have had a busy period.

    For pretty much all of this year I have had around 15 genuine viewings with possible clients. Most did not result in a sale. However for the past 10 days or so I have had 11 serious buyers and 3 have resulted in a sales contract.

    Whilst I have been, out my neighbour, from a golf shop, has rung me to say there were people trying to get into my office (which is closed when I am out).

    Several other agents in the plaza have also cheered up somewhat with all reporting a busy time, on some days almost a little chaotic.

    The large majority of clients have been lifestyle types, in their 50´s and 60´s. No young buyers at all and the budgets are ranging from 250k up to 500k.

    I have touched on the exchange rates with clients and opinion seems to be that if they wait longer it may get worse or no better.

    Offers have averaged around 15 – 25% below sales price and most of the properties viewed have been reduced at least once and some by 20% from bank valuation. I have only had one vendor decline an offer.

    I don´t know what to think about this mini upturn. It could be the beginning of the buying season, which, in all honesty I did not think would happen this year at all!

    I have decided to call back a few sales people (who have not seen a client since July last year) as next week I need more hands.

    I would be interested to hear opinions of not only other agents, but those who may have decided to go ahead and buy this summer despite the disavantage of exchange rates and the economic woes.

    Needless to say, as soon as I see this mini upturn stop I shall report it also to keep the period analysable.

    Not sure if there are national holidays or anything in the UK, that could account for it, but the last ones over Easter were totally not memorable.

    I have edited this to add another item. Not one viewing has been for new-build, all resale only.

  • #82909
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Peter we have a Bank Holiday this week-end and many schools on half-term next week.

  • #82910
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @peter Good wrote:

    ……Offers have averaged around 15 – 25% below sales price and most of the properties viewed have been reduced at least once and some by 20% from bank valuation. I have only had one vendor decline an offer……

    So that’s approxiamately 40% below the bank’s valuation, great news for anyone who bought at the peak! 😯

    @peter Good wrote:

    ……The large majority of clients have been lifestyle types, in their 50´s and 60´s. No young buyers at all and the budgets are ranging from 250k up to 500k…….

    What horrible, horrible estate-agent speak – “Lifestyle types”

    If they are looking to improve their lifestyle, I suggest they rent a villa for a fraction of what the monthly mortgage re-payments would be, whack the £500K in an offshore account earning them £30K tax-free year and under no circumstances become a fiscal resident of Spain.

    That way they are safe from illegal-builds, land-grabs, demolitions, 10% agents fees/purchase costs, and of course being saddled with a depreciating asset in a falling market.

    Alternatively, they could wait 2-3 years and pick up the same property for 50% of today’s cost, and see if Spain can ever manage to get to grips with it’s endemic corruption.

    Apart from that, things are looking up.

  • #82911
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Claire wrote:

    Peter we have a Bank Holiday this week-end and many schools on half-term next week.

    Hi Claire, yes a friend in the UK has confirmed that too, it could be the reason for so many people at present. Though the Easter period was long and protracted it did not bring a singlr client. The weather then was truly dreadful, windy, grey and wet. I think also that it was very early, perhaps too early for the summer buyers.

    I suppose I should be cautious Claire and expect the doldrums to re-appear after the bank holiday. I have gotten used to them to be truthful. Actually putting a contract in front of a really keen and happy buyer seems somewhat sorded at present and makes me feel like some kind of monster, I keep offering them more and more time to think about it.

    One clients husband asked me if I was the companys sales prevention officer 😳

  • #82912
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    One clients husband asked me if I was the companys sales prevention officer

    😆

    I suppose a busy period is bucking the general trend just now Peter, but you never know! 😉

  • #82914
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Peter

    I am pleased for you, hope the trend to sell realisticly priced property continues.
    I have just returned from 10 days on the CDS, the first time there in 8 months and I have to say there is a definate difference in vendors attitudes to offers, and prices have fallen by between 10-30% on property that the vendor is motivated to sell. There is still property that has been hanging around for over 2 years and of course the countless 100’s of 2b2b apartments in the hills that will always be a problem.

    It was quite strange to see all the empty and closed estate agent offices down the carretera especialy all the painted out ex Viva offices.

    I think that the estate agents that are left in buisness have taken on board the situation as it is(previously in denial) have re educated the motivated vendor, and hopefully this is now the begining of the end for resale property.

    As for new builds, off plan,2b2b apartments with no location still bob hope and no hope

    Steve

  • #82915
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Steve,

    My knowledge of CDS is less than limited, though I know a few people there, the whole demographic is far removed from my region of Murcia.

    It´s refreshing in a “new-world after the bomb” sense to see closed agents offices. Some mornings, and if I´m honest, most mornings I arrive at mine and wish it was empty.

    But, it is too easy to just give up. This last week or so has not been at all gratifying because we all know the situation could get worse, so with that possibility in mind i feel reluctant to take peoples money, on the other hand I can influence vendors to accept less, and that isn´t a nice position either, especially when they are decent people who will be losing money through no fault of their own.

    I think I preferred it before this little upturn, when there were no clients and no dilema.

    I guess I have to go away and rethink if I´m doing what I want to do and what else could I do.

    Perhaps I´m being too philosophical, it can be dangerouse, so I´ve heard. 😕

  • #82916
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    Peter Good is being a typical estate agent talking up the market. I have heard that optimistic clap trap repeated so many times. In fact everytime you speak to an agent and I yawn at the prospect. It’s either very tongue in cheek or they are living in denial. I have come to suspect that agents actually live in a parallel universe to the rest of us. Constantly talking up the market to clients when we have actually done more research and are so many more steps ahead. The ‘cattle fodder’ clients have all but gone Peter. You need to start treating clients with a little respect. We actually know the Spanish property market is broken, probably for good. We also know all the reasons why. In my opinion it’s your sellers you need to convince to reduce drastically their asking prices. Until that happens no one with their marbles in tact will buy into a falling market which has a long way to go yet to hit the bottom.

  • #82917
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Logan, I agree. In the Golf club you can hear the agents even bullshitting one another. Privately I hear things are dire. (naturally I know a few agents personally, its how most people earn(t) a living here. Most are relying on earning commission from the rental market. Of course there are sales jobs on offer as people cannot afford to stay on commission only. There will always be a market but not enough to keep all the Agents on the coast in business.

  • #82918
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Logan

    Of course estate agents always try and talk the market up,as is the case with all business sectors. After reading Peters historical posts I have no reason to belive his ‘recent upturn’ is untrue.

    When do you see the property market hitting the bottom?, If you could answer that correctly it would be better than having the lottery numbers.

    As Ive said, good resale poperty on the CDS is nearing the begining of the end regarding price reductions

    This is my opinion based on an 8 day property evaluation visit.

    SV

  • #82919
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I´m not sure if this post hasn´t been miss-interpreted by Logan, Katy and others.

    I am not talking up the market. For the whole of 2008 the market has not exhisted, in fact worse, it has been a nightmare and disaster for those who were part of the market – i.e. purchased in it since 2005.

    I am also saying that unless you have to/want to buy then don´t buy. I am also saying unless you have to sell/need to sell then don´t.

    What I am doing is registering a blip/upturn, and asking if any other agent in any area is experiencing. Also if anyone here has decided to buy, why?

    I hope it also gives Mark something to use in his constant research as I know his articles link to some of the feedback he recieves from this/his resource.

    Claire and Steve seem to have understood my findings and Claire has offered a good reason why there are buyers in Spain, I hadn´t remembered there was a bank holiday looming. Steve also offered his opinion having spent several days in Spain on a research trip.

    I asked in my first post for opinions and reasons or any ideas on what may be the cause of this blip.

    I am a little disapointed that some posters jumped down my throat at the very thought of an Estate Agent selling a property, it´s as though they can´t bear the thought of it happening, that worries me more than the dreadful future of the market.

    I really feel guilty and ashamed that I bothered. 🙁

  • #82921
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @peter Good wrote:

    What I am doing is registering a blip/upturn, and asking if any other agent in any area is experiencing. Also if anyone here has decided to buy, why?

    I think most of us understood exactly what you are doing, Peter. It’s an interesting post, totally pertinent as a comment on what is currently happening in the market as far as your experience is concerned, and certainly you have no need to justify.
    I must say I was surprised at the aggressive response.

    @peter Good wrote:

    I really feel guilty and ashamed that I bothered.

    Don’t let those who just go on the attack for the sake of it touch you in anyway. There are people who really have nothing better to do with their time. Any follow up to your post should be of interest to anyone following what’s happening in the marketplace.
    In my view – along with Jiminspain, Inez and Fuengi, you’re one of the ‘good eggs’, so keep posting.

  • #82924
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Peter

    as the train gets closer to crashing and buyers become even more wary, i think people will assume some agents are going to have to find more and more subtle ways of talking up the market, in order to survive.

    This is tough on the genuine one’s, telling the truth, what else can you do?, but as nothing is beyond the not so genuine one’s, and so many lies have been told, positive speak in such a slump, is bound to be called to question.

  • #82926
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    Anonymous
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    Anyway, what’s wrong with talking the market up just a little bit? 😀 I do it all the time (in my trade – not RE), have done it for years, and will, probably, do it long into the future 😉 Surely, it’s part of the sales process?

    A

  • #82932
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    I was expressing my frustration with estate agents and Peter just happened to be handy.
    I spent 2 months earlier this year looking for a property. I dealt with dozens of so called agents who wasted my time and theirs. They constantly attempted to sell me property at prices which were relevant before the crash and fed me a diet of bull shit.
    Talking up the market is misleading. What on earth is wrong with the truth. Just tell your clients how it really is without spin and bull shit.
    I except Peter Good was writing here about what he thinks is a blip. All it means in my opinion is that there are more folks around on holiday with nothing better to do than look at houses and dream.

  • #82933
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    AAA

    of course, but i think most people are feeling very sensitive about truth and lies regarding the market, due to recent history, and just want the real facts. Nothing more, nothing less. It’s a tough one for good agents, they have a lot of convincing to do!

  • #82934
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    True, one Agent told me he hates “holiday viewers” but has to go along with it as maybe 1 or 2% turn out to be serious.

    Reminds of when we were selling a house with VIVA. Had lots of viewings in holiday period. One couple actually told us they were looking for an apartment to share with another couple…ours was a villa with a high maintenance garden! After one viewing of a Brit family with 3 kids tearing all over the place and a broken vase, I asked VIVA to pre-qualify the viewers. The agent said what is pre-qualify 🙄

  • #82935
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    Anonymous
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    @logan wrote:

    I was expressing my frustration with estate agents and Peter just happened to be handy.

    What a pathetic excuse for being rude. Just because you’re frustrated, that gives you the right to call Peter’s post “optimistic clap trap”?
    Sounds a bit like “I hit an old lady over the head with a beer bottle because I come from a troubled background and she just happened to be handy”.
    Now that is clap trap and for me, without an apology to Peter, will devalue anything you bother to post in the future.

  • #82936
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    katy

    ……..now come on, they could breath, what else is to pre-qualify?

  • #82945
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    Good to hear you have a positive time Peter.

    I firmly believe there are plenty of buyers out there, its just finding them the right property.

    @logan wrote:

    I spent 2 months earlier this year looking for a property. I dealt with dozens of so called agents who wasted my time and theirs. They constantly attempted to sell me property at prices which were relevant before the crash and fed me a diet of bull shit.
    Talking up the market is misleading. What on earth is wrong with the truth. Just tell your clients how it really is without spin and bull shit.
    I except Peter Good was writing here about what he thinks is a blip. All it means in my opinion is that there are more folks around on holiday with nothing better to do than look at houses and dream.

    does anyone else see the irony?

  • #82946
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @goodstich44 wrote:

    katy

    ……..now come on, they could breath, what else is to pre-qualify?

    come now they were better than that. at least some brain activity and some motor control. got to sign on the dotted line

  • #82951
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Fuengi

    ok, so perhaps some over-qualify!

  • #82956
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Peter,

    I have an office in the UK and I can agree that sometimes there seems to be a blip and I get a little excited, but they seem to dry up pretty quickly. This year has been the worst I can remember. My office is in our high street and I get a lot of walk in potential clients but most are just gathering information at the moment. It seems people are very aware now of the problems in Spain and seem to be wating for that “magic moment” when the time will be right. A lot of this will depend on conditions here but I’m more than convinced it’s the television programmes and newspapers that have put most people off at the moment.

    I have been speaking to a few friends in the currency markets and they all have said that the Euro is on the way down at the end of the summer. They all agree that first the dollar dived, then the pound. The only thing that is keeping the Euro up is the high interest rates across Europe and it’s only a matter of time when the currency traders start to get scared and start selling. This will mean that people will see a real drop in prices as the Euro returns to a more historical normal. Adding this to a genuine reduction in prices by some sellers then we should see those that are sitting on the fence at the moment start to look seriously at buying.

    Anyway, back to thumb twiddling!!!

    Best wishes

    Bernie

  • #82961
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    blawes1

    wrote
    ” but I’m more than convinced it’s the television programmes and newspapers that have put most people off at the moment”

    ……..don’t shoot the messenger springs to mind.

    I can see your frustration, and while i’m not saying it’s all true, any publicity to highlight the problems, is a good thing for potential buyers, in my opinion. Those same articles would have saved many from misery a few years ago.

  • #82962
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    So Peter, could September be a good time to holiday in the eurozone or are we talking ski-ing around Christmas/New year? 😉

  • #82963
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    not so sure blawes1.

    alot of brits are currently dropping their prices alot (in our case) because of the strengh of the euro. Sod’s law, they raise the prices if the euro weakens

  • #82964
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Peter: If you have the talent/power to buck the market up from a forum and other feels the same about it. Than you have a very unique talent this would be will be required in many parts of the world. For starters Gordon Brown could do with it.

  • #82972
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Peter – I didnt seeyour thread yesterday but I have to say I agre with you.

    I fully expected it to be dead but I have been pleasantly suprised with clients out there.

    They have been calling me with specific properties they want to view ie know what they want, and range from a couple who sold up UK 18 months ago and have been renting, looking to buy and settle, others are wanting second homes, cash buyers in the main and arent young, but from mid 30’s. Budget around the 200-250k mark, and one guy wanting a nice villa in the 2m mark.

    All want a good deal but in the main the right property still leads their view.

    Not just me, my colleagues in the Costa Blanca report the same, but I think this will die off in mid june

    And despite the viewings, no actual sale (maybe cos Im a bad closer!) although I had a bid on the elviria plot which was accepted, so far so good!

    Quiet today – thankfully!

  • #82973
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Fuengi,

    You could be right especially if those people need to change those Euros back to Pounds.

    Just had an email from Taylor Woodrow offering 30% discount on some completed properties in CDS. If all the builders start doing this then the resale prices will have to follow downwards but I’m sure this will really upset anyone that has bought the same style of place from the builder for their own use, to see its now worth 30% less

    Its all a mess.

    Best wishes

    Bernie

  • #82986
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Well, knock me down with a feather! I wuz wrong 😯 Agents are very busy. lots of cash buyers looking at greatly reduced properties. So busy they have time to tell us how well they are doing. I am so envious of all these 5% sales they are doing, they must be loaded 🙄

    So come on down folks as all those 2 million properties will soon be gone 💡

    Shouldn’t this be in Jokes for the Weekend 💡

  • #82995
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    @charlie wrote:

    @logan wrote:
    I was expressing my frustration with estate agents and Peter just happened to be handy.

    What a pathetic excuse for being rude. Just because you’re frustrated, that gives you the right to call Peter’s post “optimistic clap trap”?
    Sounds a bit like “I hit an old lady over the head with a beer bottle because I come from a troubled background and she just happened to be handy”.
    Now that is clap trap and for me, without an apology to Peter, will devalue anything you bother to post in the future.

    You folks need to get out more. “Hitting old ladies over the head with a beer bottle”! Jeeze, where does that come from? A forum is surely just that. An avenue for expression, discussion and opinion.
    I feel no need to make an apology to a post I regard as misleading. That’s my opinion. If you don’t agree fine. Peter Good had a view and it may be true, or it may be misleading. I don’t agree. That is an opinion. If this forum is to be of any use and value then relevant opinion matters.
    So for the more sensitive of you agents out there for ‘clap-trap’ read ” I think that’s wrong”.
    Similar to agent speak. “requires some attention”. Read – The whole place needs rebuilding. Or “The property has a sea view”. Read – Only for 4 meter tall Ostriches with binoculars on a stick.

  • #83004
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    Anonymous
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    Peter
    Thanks for the update and its so sad the it was met with such a rude and hostile responce by Logan.
    Thankfully I can add no further comments than that made by Charlie and sums it him/her perfectly as a very rude person.
    Inez ? Watch out as your an E.A and have confirmed and agreed with Peter and you could be the next agent that just happens to be hanging about and a target for anyone to insult at will.
    Now what the hell was all that for 😈

    Just Frank 8)

  • #83007
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    Anonymous
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    @Just Frank wrote:

    so sad the it was met with such a rude and hostile responce by Logan.

    Incredible isn’t it?

    An agent has eleven serious buyers in the past ten days, yet was blissfully unaware of any upcoming national holidays, half-terms or bank holidays until it was confirmed to him by a friend in the UK.

    What do they talk about on inspection tours these days? 😀 😀

  • #83010
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @iano wrote:

    What do they talk about on inspection tours these days? 😀 😀

    I would hazard a guess and say…………property maybe? 🙄

    Peter wrote he had no young buyers at all, the majority of clients being in their 50’s and 60’s. So I don’t expect the subject of school half-term was very high on their list of conversation priorities.
    Maybe when you were still working as an agent you had groups of younger clients?

  • #83015
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @charlie wrote:

    …the majority of clients being in their 50’s and 60’s. So I don’t expect the subject of school half-term was very high on their list of conversation priorities.

    Hey Charlie, you’d be amazed, even ‘lifestyle types’ in their 60s often have young grandchildren.

    An EA that talks about property, to the exclusion of everything else, would be a very poor one.

    Thing is, if you’re left pondering whether it’s national holidays in the UK, that could account for a sudden mini upturn, then you’d ask, wouldn’t you?

  • #83023
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    Anonymous
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    Iano
    Still no need to be rude and thnk that Peter has well exepted that your factors come into play.
    Someone wanted to have a go and be rude to estate agents and a forum member just happened to be handy to kick. 😈
    Like is or not estate agents (some anyway) are a very important source of information and far better than the papers in some cases as they are the first to see trend and attitude changes.
    Is there a problem with them posting the negatives(as they indeed do) and also any positive signs no matter how small as some of us are sensible to understand that one report should be taken with caution either way.

    Just Frank 8)

    Ex Estate agent U.K . Ex top U.K Estate agent in the U.K selling Spanish Property and proud of it 😆

  • #83028
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I have to be honest and admit to having a slight reservation before I sent in the origional post as it could have been interpreted as an agent boasting. I didn´t expect it to be contrued as “talking the market up” – that would need to be accross the media as a whole to have any influence.

    But, the majority of well informed and valued posters here have, I think, taken it for what it is, just a piece of data for analysis. I haven´t made it up, I know I am an agent but I would have to be a little sad to do that,

    Anyhow, not to be distracted too much, the trend is still much the same. I´m sure it is not largly due to the bank holiday. I have found in the last couple of days since the first post that most people are angry with the UK economy, weather and all the usual things that make people leave the UK historically.

    Another interesting thing is, hardly any of the clients seem aware of forums like this. Members here are a very well informed bunch, keeping a daily watch on all things Spanish, such as legal cases, property prices, new laws etc. We are exceptional in that case, as the vast, vast majority I have spoken to are just totally uaware of recent cases of demolition and the Malaya case to name just a few.

    Most are aware of the exchange rate, and prices are (supposedly dropping) but that´s about all. We here have (for good reason) a despondent view of Spain and Spanish property, I have to the point I question if I should continue, but generally, the clients have a more upbeat mood, mainly because they are about to fulfill an ambition to move to a better climate and live a new life. Clients enthusiasm can almost be uplifting to someone like me who is cautious and downbeat at present.

    I have quite enjoyed the last week, being in the company of enthusiastic buyers, and next week I shall be with a few more, it may just lift my attidude to a more healthy level, if only for a short period. I know I needed to be jolted with some enthusiasm for what I do.

    I may only get the chance to look in later in the evenings next week but shall genuinely only post any truthful observations. I don´t honestly expect this period to last too long but as I said above, it is quite uplifting and my wife and dogs are more grateful for that than anyone 😕

  • #83066
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Peter

    hard to believe clients don’t read this and similar forums. I can’t help thinking it’s more to do with the fact that they have made their mind up, and just want to see positives. It’s seems very ‘head in the sand’ and backed by a poorly regulated system, plays straight in to the hands of the desperate and the bad guys.

    i really thought most would be wised up on all the available information by now, before making an informed decision.

  • #83070
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Judging by the deleted posts there is no upsurge in the market on the CDS…the Agents seem to be taking other employment 🙄

  • #83071
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Katy 🙂 Ouch!
    No Prisoners. 😯

    Just Frank 8)

  • #83085
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @iano wrote:

    Hey Charlie…….

    An EA that talks about property, to the exclusion of everything else, would be a very poor one.

    I didn’t say that.
    What I did say is “I don’t expect the subject of school half-term was very high on their list of conversation priorities” with regards to clients in the 50’s and 60’s.

    For your benefit I’ll qualify my reason for that statement. About 20 years ago, I once spent a year as a member of a sales team for a new Marina development. I often spent several hours with just one client, and yes we would talk about reasons they were looking to buy, why that particular area/development was of interest etc, but would also chat about about their work, family etc.
    In that year, I sold several million pounds worth of properties in what was a difficult time that preceded the UK property recession so I gather I wasn’t too ‘poor’ at my job.
    And yet not once did we ever touch on the subject of school half-terms/bank holidays etc. which is my point. So “Hey Iano”…..I hope you understand my point now.

    Do you really think this was a valid reason to join in on the current Peter-bashing/mocking or are we now to expect all members’ postings to be subjected to cynical questioning (logan: “misleading”) and feeble attempts at ridicule as in your case….. ad nauseam….. as shown in this and other threads in the past week or so?

    If/whenever Peter is fortunate to conclude a sale, any admission of this will no doubt be responded to with contempt and suspicion. What a sad state of affairs for this forum.

  • #83155
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Charlie,

    Firstly, just to clear one thing up, I do not respond to ‘Peter Good’ the person, only the posts written by ‘Peter Good’. There is only ever a ‘mocking/bashing’, as you put it, of the post.

    In an open forum, I don’t believe that any unsubstantiated post is beyond question, whoever the poster is, and however genuine they may appear. ‘Peter Good’ comes across as a very decent man, but I don’t know him from Adam.

    My first reaction on reading the OP, was in line with Logan and Katy. The reason being, I live not far from ‘Peter Good’ EA office and the evidence of my own eyes in this area, is of many estate agents closing, and many more struggling to survive. What I see around me bears absolutely no relation to the OP.

    That of course is not to say the OP is untrue, because I honestly haven’t a clue.

    I don’t know if you recall, but I have had a problem in the past with estate agents making ‘forecasts’ of recovery based on very little substance. In the current economic climate I don’t agree with ‘talking up’ the market as it brings false hopes to a lot of people. I can understand certain people with vested interests doing it, but don’t agree with it. Just my opinion.

    On a forum it is nigh impossible to disprove the claims of any individual, so many resort to questioning or gentle mocking. ‘Cynical’ you may call it, but I wouldn’t, for the reasons I’ve already given.

    It does help bring some balance, and a bit of fun, to the debate if not taken too seriously.

    😀 😀

  • #83160
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Good post Iano. Peter does come across as a nice guy, one sort of wishes him well. From my cynical view this is about the third time this year he has posted that the market is recovering/busy etc. I think I also queried a post he made about selling a house with a 50% reduction.

    Are we now at the stage where we cannot challenge these agents who post 😯 Maybe the response was a bit rude but sometimes when you tap the keyboard it is easy to say what you are thinking. Many times I have read a post on here and thought “what bullshit” although usually I haven’t posted it.

    I realise people have kids to feed and mortgages to pay, probably the people at VIVA and Awful Estates who lost their jobs did too. Does that mean there is some code that these people are untouchable 🙄

  • #83172
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    …….oh yes, real life cluedo eh’, but the rules keep changing!

  • #83193
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    Are we now at the stage where we cannot challenge these agents who post 😯

    I’m not saying that either. 🙄
    I certainly have done my share of ‘agent challenging’, especially a couple of years ago when we had a flood of them (inc. one from the co. we can’t mention) who were extolling the virtues of off-plan as a “good investment at this time”, and those who boasted how their areas of Spain were corruption free…one being in Valencia. Land Grab obviously hadn’t reached his ears?
    And I’m the first to say there are many agents who are nothing more than self-serving liars who will say anything as long as it fills their pockets.

    I just rather hoped that until an agent shows himself to be full of ‘bull’, he can at least post without automatically being leapt on and it being intimated by others that it’s all just a lie…..sorry, ‘misleading’. But the mood on this forum at present is to criticise regardless, even if it is only because they happen to be ‘handy’.

    Quotes from Peter Good:

    “Though the Easter period was long and protracted it did not bring a single client”.
    “I suppose I should be cautious and expect the doldrums to re-appear after the bank holiday”.
    “I am also saying that unless you have to/want to buy then don´t buy. I am also saying unless you have to sell/need to sell then don´t”.

    Hardly talking up the Spanish market, is it.

  • #83197
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi,

    I have had very little time to look in but am suprised to see this thread still going during the bank holiday.

    I should have taken some time to explain myself as the thread went on but it is very kind of those who have made efforts to do so in my absence.

    It has to be said that I do not believe the market has or is turning around. I´m sure it has a long way to drop first. I´ve been inland for a few days and agents there are much quieter than on my particular part of the coast.

    Several of my viewings have been cancelled. This is very common these days. At least 50% is the norm now. I can hardly remember any during the boom times.

    I have one sale confirmed from the end of last week with a deposit, it is split with another agent. House price €355,000 down from €425.000. The commission is 7,000€ then split with the other agent. I am happy with €3,500 but he is very unhappy as he started with 17,000€ before offers came in. It won´t pay my office rent but it pays most of it and that is all we can expect.

    My next viewing is tomorrow morning, they seem very keen so hopefully the commission will pay my electricity and phone bill. 😀

    Seriously, if the surviving agents want to continue, in business they need to drop their commissions to between 1& 2% similar to UK agents.

    Most in my area are still charging 5%, which is excessive as the only business they doing is passing trade and that costs very little compared to the days when everyone was spending thousands on glossy advertising.

  • #83206
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Good post Peter, I agree. It seems you are very realistic about the market, if there had been more agents like you around in the first place perhaps the spanish property market would not be lurching from feast to famine

  • #83241
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    This last post by Peter Good has the ring of authenticity and reflects the state of things far better than the previously upbeat comments.
    I am an investor and follow markets. It’s my profession and I need to be in touch with the actualities whatever and wherever they are. I am interested in investing in buy to let and other projects in Spain.
    However I will not even consider properties marked up to an asking price which relects over 50% above the actuality or ‘fair value’ in the current market state. I feel very aggrieved towards agents who wasted so much of my time this year. I made it clear in advance my requirements. They said they understood and had done some research on my behalf. It became clear they had done nothing. I came to Spain not on holiday but for my business. I would never choose Spain as a holiday destination. Not my scene.
    In the end I came to the conclusions that my plans were sound but needed to be put on hold until the market bottomed. Nothing has happened since March to change my mind. Save that Spain is likely now to fall in my view at least 60%. Who in their right mind will buy into a falling market? You just have no real idea how far it has yet to go.
    Property markets across the world are in a state of collapse. It’s a cyclical correction that’s long overdue especially in UK. Spain will suffer more because of it’s dependence on an artifical market. By that I mean buyers from other countries seeking vacation homes. Plus folks like me seeking to exploit whatever markets exists there. Without a market there will be no investment.
    I don’t usually give advice, but I suggest Peter Good that you cast around for another form of employment. You are going to need it.

  • #83247
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    indeed Logan. Check out http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk and look at the graph on the front page to see just how big the pricing bubble has become in the UK. I don’t have a similar graph for Spain but expect it is the same if not worse. My view is the same as yours, ie most people are unaware of just how far the spanish market will fall. Remember there are 1- 2 million surplus properties in the Spanish market so the fallout could be massive

  • #83263
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    Thanks for those stats Kingy. The UK predictions make interesting reading. However I’m not based in the UK. I left that market some time ago when the writing was on the wall. I advised others at the time to do the same. Sentiment then was I had gone off my head and would regret it.
    Quite honestly property anywhere at the mo is a dead duck and likely to be so for at least 2 years and probably longer in Spain.
    Stagflation is looming. The ECB & the BOE will not reduce rates to stimulate growth because of rising inflation across the board. The European economy will contract and stall as a result.
    I wish I knew where it will end but until I see any signs I’m sitting on my hands. Risk is OK I’m used to that. However in today’s market climate risk has been replaced by a solid wall that impossible to climb. Of course that in itself produces an opportunity. A bit more time will make the view clearer.

  • #83269
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    As it is one of the more researched and in-depth articles I have seen for a while, hopefully the Daily Mail’s money section has got it right in that the market will come back together from 2010?

    http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/mortgages/homesabroad/article.html?in_article_id=442201&in_page_id=505&ct=5

  • #83279
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @rob-fuengirola wrote:

    hopefully the Daily Mail’s money section has got it right in that the market will come back together from 2010?

    ‘2010’ prediction came from the Currencies Direct Business Development Director.

    Yet another forecast, based on we know not what, to add to a growing collection.

    Good article though.

  • #83280
    Profile photo of rt21
    rt21
    Participant

    I think Mr Hernadez was being highly optimistic when he suggested that the spanish market might pick up again in 2010.

    The economic model for housing in Spain is significantly out of equilibrium. Aggregate demand has has lurched to the left (dropped) the supply curve has rapidly been moving to the right (oversupply) and prices have remained where they were before these movements occured. The only way the market will pick up (unless of course he is talking about a very slight improvement) is if prices crash in order to restore a new price equilibrium, or there is a huge demolition of illegal builds thereby moving the supply curve significantly to the left, or there is a huge increase in demand, or there is a combination of all of these.

    The Uk may have been hit hard by the credit crunch and suffered big and unrealistic increases in price due to lax lending, but aside from that the fundamentals of the market are stronger than the Spanish market in that demand is greater than supply. When prices fall to a realistic level, which they are beginning to do now then the market will begin to pick up again.

    Although I am an owner of property in Spain (lifestyle choice) I am very pessimistic about the Spanish market

  • #83287
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    As is everyone else rt21. Buyers are very reticent unless its a lifestyle choice and several are interested in the same one ie beachfront etc.

    Investors arent around at all

  • #83295
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    This Agent seems to be/was doing fairly well!

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/arti … party.html

  • #83297
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    well katy, Sharon Stone would say it was karma catching up with the estate agents in spain.

  • #83298
    Profile photo of rt21
    rt21
    Participant

    a more simple explanation of the estate agent’s misfortune may be that some of the revellers were the offspring of those to whom he had sold property.

  • #97672
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    spam deleted by moderator

  • #97674
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Why is it that new spammers always choose an old thread to tack onto 🙄

    Interesting topic though…Agents speaking about a possible property sales revival in May 2008 😆

  • #97677
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    Why is it that new spammers always choose an old thread to tack onto 🙄

    Interesting topic though…Agents speaking about a possible property sales revival in May 2008 😆

    And what happened to the prediction of the euro weekening against the pound and a return to a desent level it was 1.17 last summer now 1.10

  • #97681
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    Why is it that new spammers always choose an old thread to tack onto 🙄

    Interesting topic though…Agents speaking about a possible property sales revival in May 2008 😆

    not all of us though 😉

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