A very British coup: The Brits running for election in Spain

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This topic contains 35 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 9 years, 6 months ago.

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  • #52910
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    Anonymous
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  • #72435
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    Anonymous
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    What a very sad state of affairs!! Whilst I agree that at the moment corruption appears to go unchecked in many areas of Spain, I suspect that giving the impression of trying to create another “little Britain”is definitely NOT the answer..

    How much can these budding politicians expect to achieve without good command of the language and support of their Spanish neighbours? Brits might outnumber the Spanish in some areas but it is the Spaniards country after all!

    Many ex-pats leaving the UK do so because they do not like – and are not prepared to live amongst the many different nationalities and cultures now present in the UK. Many expect to (and have) created their own “little Britain” in amongst their Spanish neighbours. They don’t try to learn the language and have no intention of integrating at all – why the h… did they bother to move to Spain or anywhere else in Europe – in the first place.

    We are often perceived as an arrogant race – this latest caper could serve to re inforce this perception.

    The results from the elections where the Brits are standing will make interesting reading.

  • #72445
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
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    i think its great that more foreigners are taking part in the election, either as candidates or by registering to vote.

    But if they don’t speak spanish they should not be allowed to run.

  • #72447
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    Anonymous
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    ” We are often perceived as an arrogant race”

    Nooo, this cannot be true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Any thoughts, why this perception ? Considering without sucking upto the USA, where we will be.

  • #72448
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    Anonymous
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    I am proud to say that I stood for office in our local elections in Lliria, Valencia, yesterday.

    I was number five on a slate of candidates representing suburban villa owners – rather than townspeople. In the previous election we won one seat.

    Unfortunately, yesterday we only persuaded 329 of the towns’s 10.600 voters to vote for us. Two hundred less than in the last election. Another Englishman, Terry Maddox, was also on the list.

    All of the other candidates were Spanish. Both Terry and myself speak reasonable Spanish.

  • #72450
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    Anonymous
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    Good for you Rawlins!!!!! Don’t give up …there’s always next time. ๐Ÿ™‚

  • #72451
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    Anonymous
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    @Claire wrote:

    Good for you Rawlins!!!!! Don’t give up …there’s always next time. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Thanks Claire.
    ๐Ÿ˜€

  • #72452
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
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    OliverB wrote:
    What a very sad state of affairs!! Whilst I agree that at the moment corruption appears to go unchecked in many areas of Spain, I suspect that giving the impression of trying to create another “little Britain”is definitely NOT the answer..

    It is it inevitable that brits will take over some councils.The same has been happening in the UK for years ,when large immigrant populations move in to an area it is only natural that after time the local administration reflects the people who live there.
    Indeed given time these administration’s do assimilate into the overall scheme of things,and do contribute to the running of the area ,20 years ago it would have been exceptional to have seen West Indian,or Asian MP’s or cabinet minister,nowadays you do not even bat an eyelid when these people are interviewed on TV.Lets face it if you are talking about reputations, at the momment Spain’s standing as a safe and legal country to purchase a property is in taters,with almost daily stories appearing in the media regarding corruption ,illegal building etc etc.

    Electing honest and worthwhile council leaders ,regardless of nationalities should be the priority here,to suggest that this role should only be carried out by Spainish people is irrational and racist,Spain has benefited enormously from British inward investment and from EU investment,you cannot keep employing the young democracy excuse for ever.It is time now for Spain to start developing a more mature and long term outlook towards regulating its property industry,failure to do so promptly, could have catastrophic consequences for Spain and its people.

  • #72453
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    Anonymous
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    Well written Gary. ๐Ÿ™‚

  • #72464
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
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    @OliverB wrote:

    Electing honest and worthwhile council leaders ,regardless of nationalities should be the priority here,to suggest that this role should only be carried out by Spainish people is irrational and racist,Spain has benefited enormously from British inward investment and from EU investment,you cannot keep employing the young democracy excuse for ever.

    i don’t think anyone is criticizing the fact that non-spanish were running in the elections. Infact most spanish people seem to taking it in there stride.

    They must be able to speak the hosts language. You cannot have an english/german/etc.. mayor who does not speak the lingo. Not only for dealing with all the residents, but also in dealings with the provincial gov.

    can anyone name a politicians in the UK that was born or has lived a majority of his/her life in another nation? cna’t think of any. Or any that have been elected but don’t speak english?

  • #72472
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Think the UK had a few Kings and Queens that couldn’t speak the lingo ๐Ÿ˜‰ Seriously though I think the foreign residents should be identifying a local politician who would represent their interests. spain is very much for the spaniards and I don’t think it would arise (not within decades) that a Spanish national would vote for a foreigner.

  • #72478
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
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    @katy wrote:

    Think the UK had a few Kings and Queens that couldn’t speak the lingo ๐Ÿ˜‰ Seriously though I think the foreign residents should be identifying a local politician who would represent their interests. spain is very much for the spaniards and I don’t think it would arise (not within decades) that a Spanish national would vote for a foreigner.

    and spain has’nt?

    i also disagree with the point about spaniards voting for a foreigner. I see as likely here as anywhere else in western europe. But at the end of the day most people will want to vote for someone who they feel represents them. So generally they are not going to be foreign born..

  • #72484
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    Anonymous
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    Fuengi, I don’t know about being born here but Micheal Portillo is Spanish..his Mum and brother used to teach Spanish at the grammar school I went too….not sure if this helps your arguement or not!!

  • #72486
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    Anonymous
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    Fuengi: You are right about Michael Portillo, also his father was killed in Spanish civil war. I was however astonished by his anti Europe stance, perhaps he sucking up to the lady who had vicious hand bag.

  • #72488
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    Anonymous
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    Fuengi,I do not feel it is helpful or indeed useful to be getting into a nationalistic argument in respect of a potential electorial canditdates origins.
    Surely the question the electorate normally asks is ,can this candidate improve my lot in life ?.

    The suspicion is that in Spain everything is fine whilst Spain is taking the money, via property purchases ,the taxes these generate,etc etc,. However should anyone who is not Spainish ,then wish to improve matters and therefore stand for election then this seems to be a problem for the Spanish.

    If after paying a huge ammount of money for your dream home in the sun, you then find that even basic services are not provided then again it is normal for people to get organised and try and improve these facilities,the way forward here is not to get into a meaningless debate about the nationalities of those involved,but to try as best as you can to understand the issues involved and assist those affected towards an appropriate solution.

    Some of the issues highlighted in the recent Daily Mail article ,appear to be very serious ,and do need dealing with as soon as possible.You cannot have it both ways ,Spain has seen a huge increase in living standards which has come about by massive inward investment ,coupled with that comes the prospect that people from other countries will inevitably have a different take on certain issues.I firmly believe that with a small shift in attitudes you will see an honorable compromise.Most of the people who move to Spain just want a quite life ,and do not want to be joining action commitees and lobying politicians,however if problems are not being dealt with then folk are left with no option but to try and resolve matters,this should not been seen negatively ,more as an opportunity to demonstrate that Spain is serious about accepting a new cultural landscape ,just as people movng to Spain have to adjust to the way things are done in Spain ,subject to being treated fairly and resonably

  • #72489
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Gary , it is so refreshing to read such eloquent posts such as yours. ๐Ÿ˜€

  • #72491
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Garry, I agree with you. However irrespective of ones nationality. It helps if one can communicate. ( una cerveza por favor is not sufficient )

    Micheal Portillo is a good example of this. if you took his J/Xavier & Portillo out you could not make out if he was an indigenous English or not. A good example of this is the many English who were involved in the Sherry business and moved to Jarez some years ago. I have met some of them and you could never guess their origins The sherry brand “Terrys” comes to mind.

  • #72498
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    Anonymous
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    A very brief ‘blond moment’; I had no idea MP was partly Spanish. Met him recently & was surprised to see how very handsome he is in the flesh (obviously where the ‘Spanish’ kicks in!). Sorry for digressing folks โ—

  • #72500
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    Anonymous
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    To digress further, he is “doing” a show tonight at the Yvonne Arnaud Theatre in Guildford..An evening with Michael Portillo!!!

  • #72501
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    Anonymous
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    Claire,thank you for your observations ,i think also Kathy remarked on my postings,which is appreciated.Incidently I am very new to computer use so I do struggle a little,also my spelling is hopeless so thank you for keeping up .I just want to add a further note in that I do sense Peoples frustrations with Spain, on one hand you have this huge mainly beautiful country brimming with fantastic customs and weather,with marvellous food and wine,which is being systematically tainted and affected by the greed and criminality of a few highly stupid people.

    You have to really lament what could have been.With even a modicum of common sense and foresight.I agree that development should take place but the scale and in the main low quality of what has been built is madness personified,there is still a very small glimmer of hope but you have to wonder if this tiny glimmer will be extinguished,I think it is the feeling of loss of what could have happened that people privately find most upseting,because it was such a brilliant oportunity,not all totally gone but as close to as you ever want to get.

  • #72505
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    @GSB wrote:

    .I just want to add a further note in that I do sense Peoples frustrations with Spain, on one hand you have this huge mainly beautiful country brimming with fantastic customs and weather,with marvellous food and wine,which is being systematically tainted and affected by the greed and criminality of a few highly stupid people.

    This is so true Gary. We really enjoy Spain and are looking forward to our holiday there commencing this weekend. In moments of “madness” we ponder on whether we should consider attempting to buy another property (with LFO etc in place ๐Ÿ˜‰ ) in Spain…not the CDS. Fortunately, sanity gets the upper hand!!

  • #72506
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    Anonymous
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    Steady on Suzanne. Have you not seen the shameful transport monoply that Portillo has on CDS.

    Portillo, is quite a common surname in the Castille region and this where he comes from. I disliked him immensly for his anti europe stance and arrogance but the loss of seat in 1997 has brought him to down to humality

  • #72507
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @shakeel wrote:

    Steady on Suzanne. Have you not seen the shameful transport monoply that Portillo has on CDS.

    Yes, it’s an old comedy called “On the buses” ๐Ÿ˜† ๐Ÿ˜† ๐Ÿ˜†

  • #72508
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    Anonymous
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    Shakeel.You are right of course you have to be be able to speak Spanish ,if you are going to stand for election,its just I thought that this was such a blindingly obvious point that I did not refer to it .
    Having to deal with Spanish bureaucarcy whilst not speaking Spanish would be like trying to place a bet on Lord Lucan riding Shergar in the Derby, er, it would not happen

  • #72511
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    Anonymous
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    Some times you have to state the obvious on the forum

  • #72520
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Shakeel,are these times when you are on the Forum?

  • #72531
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant
    heatherpsk wrote:
    Fuengi, I don’t know about being born here but Micheal Portillo is Spanish..his Mum and brother used to teach Spanish at the grammar school I went too….not sure if this helps your arguement or not!!

    no affect heatherpsk. Portillo was born in england. I don’t think anyone could think of him as anything but english, except maybe the BNP and their ilk

  • #72532
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    Anonymous
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    Interesting article to read about his younger days & family in Spain:
    http://www.michaelportillo.co.uk/articles/art_nipress/luisp.htm

  • #72533
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @GSB wrote:

    Fuengi,I do not feel it is helpful or indeed useful to be getting into a nationalistic argument in respect of a potential electorial canditdates origins.
    Surely the question the electorate normally asks is ,can this candidate improve my lot in life ?.

    nationalistic? how so?
    But the electorate should not require an onsight translation either.

    @GSB wrote:

    The suspicion is that in Spain everything is fine whilst Spain is taking the money, via property purchases ,the taxes these generate,etc etc,. However should anyone who is not Spainish ,then wish to improve matters and therefore stand for election then this seems to be a problem for the Spanish.

    It does? how? where?
    Most article on the matter seem to show positiviness from the spanish populace. Some spanish only worry about whether the candidate will be able to speak the language. Just like the link in the OP. the first words are “they don’t speak the lingo…”

    @GSB wrote:

    If after paying a huge ammount of money for your dream home in the sun, you then find that even basic services are not provided then again it is normal for people to get organised and try and improve these facilities,the way forward here is not to get into a meaningless debate about the nationalities of those involved,but to try as best as you can to understand the issues involved and assist those affected towards an appropriate solution.

    well of course. That’s why the main political parties have also been trying to as money foreign residents to vote (around here anyway).

    @GSB wrote:

    Some of the issues highlighted in the recent Daily Mail article ,appear to be very serious ,and do need dealing with as soon as possible.You cannot have it both ways ,Spain has seen a huge increase in living standards which has come about by massive inward investment ,coupled with that comes the prospect that people from other countries will inevitably have a different take on certain issues.I firmly believe that with a small shift in attitudes you will see an honorable compromise.Most of the people who move to Spain just want a quite life ,and do not want to be joining action commitees and lobying politicians,however if problems are not being dealt with then folk are left with no option but to try and resolve matters,this should not been seen negatively ,more as an opportunity to demonstrate that Spain is serious about accepting a new cultural landscape ,just as people movng to Spain have to adjust to the way things are done in Spain ,subject to being treated fairly and resonably

    most of southern spain has seen an increase in lifestyle. Please remember spain is the 9th largest economy in the world.
    Also has seen vast economic improvements since Spain acension to the EU in ’86. Hell its worth while seing how much the HRDF has done for spain.

    I don’t think anyone is seeing it negatively, as I already said earlier, its the lingo. I personally would vote for the person i felt would best improve my lot. Now if I have the choice between 2 candidates, one that speaks english and spanish and another that only speaks morocan. I will not be able to take seriously the one that only speaks morocan. This is regardless of nationality, more a reflection on how this person as adapted to life where i live and his or her ability to be able to deal with all the issues/committees/etc.. efficiently

  • #72534
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @GSB wrote:

    Claire,thank you for your observations ,i think also Kathy remarked on my postings,which is appreciated.Incidently I am very new to computer use so I do struggle a little,also my spelling is hopeless so thank you for keeping up .

    for someone new to computers your doing well. Keep it up!

  • #72537
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Fuengi,You are also correct of course,as shakeel mentioned I should have stated that command of Spanish is an essential component in getting elected,to me this is such an obvious factor that I did not mention it,

    To put the matter straight no one should stand for election unless than can speak Spanish .

  • #72539
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant
    GSB wrote:
    Fuengi,You are also correct of course,as shakeel mentioned I should have stated that command of Spanish is an essential component in getting elected,to me this is such an obvious factor that I did not mention it,

    To put the matter straight no one should stand for election unless than can speak Spanish .

    and all residents should be able to run for elections regardless of nation of birth.

    GSB, I think though people are expecting alot from Spain at the moment. It has not been till very, very recently that spain has become an immigrating nation as opposed to an emigrating nation. If the figure for 2001 was 1.100.000 (+/-) immigrants. By 2006 that had risen to 4.100.000 (+/-) immigrants. Whereas 87% of england is white english. And that is after over 30 years of immigration

  • #72544
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Fuengi,You are right of course with regards to Spain’s growing pains in accepting new people into the country,and frankly it would be unusual if there were not the sort of issues occuring which we have been discussing,and lets state fact here for the vast majority of people who have moved to Spain ,they are entirely happy, and indeed we have friends in Spain who do not even like returning to England to visit,

    The changes that are being refered to are relatively minor and could be implemented without too much bother and would benefit everyone in Spain .I think it is important to remember that most of what troubles people on the Forum also affects the indiginous population as well.

    But it does not alter the fact that issues regarding the property scandals etc which are now unravelling in Spain ,can be dealt with in the slow and regretable manner that they are currently being actioned, this situation does require prompt action ,this is not happening at the moment,and I think this is where most of the frustation lies,It is all taking far too long ,to be honest you have a valid point, Spain has grown rapidly,but i’m afraid if you wish to restore confidence in the Spanish property market then time is not on your side,potential buyers will make their own minds up

  • #72583
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @GSB wrote:

    Fuengi,You are right of course with regards to Spain’s growing pains in accepting new people into the country,and frankly it would be unusual if there were not the sort of issues occuring which we have been discussing,and lets state fact here for the vast majority of people who have moved to Spain ,they are entirely happy, and indeed we have friends in Spain who do not even like returning to England to visit,

    ๐Ÿ™‚ i’m one of them.

    @GSB wrote:

    The changes that are being refered to are relatively minor and could be implemented without too much bother and would benefit everyone in Spain .I think it is important to remember that most of what troubles people on the Forum also affects the indiginous population as well.

    But it does not alter the fact that issues regarding the property scandals etc which are now unravelling in Spain ,can be dealt with in the slow and regretable manner that they are currently being actioned, this situation does require prompt action ,this is not happening at the moment,and I think this is where most of the frustation lies,It is all taking far too long ,to be honest you have a valid point, Spain has grown rapidly,but i’m afraid if you wish to restore confidence in the Spanish property market then time is not on your side,potential buyers will make their own minds up

    it is taking too long. But at the end of the day its an economic question (in my opinion). Around 29% of the labour force is involved in manufacturing, mining and construction. That’s slightly less that 5000000 workers. Prompt action will adversely affect these industries in the short term. Of course it will be a benefit in the long term. And will sound planning, training programs, etc.. it will be a boon. But this would take a couple of years. And lets not forget democratic governments are nothing if not short sighted and there are elections next year i believe.

  • #72609
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Fuengi, You may well have gotten to the core of the argument here, in that at the Macro level ,dificult decisions have to made ,and yes it is a jugling act to achieve the right balance, however I still maintain that even at the lofty level of Macro economics,serious long term damage is being done to the Spanish property market.

    It can take a long while to re establish that all important confidence in markets,and the property market is unusally suseptible to jolts that affect buyers sentiment.

    There is a great deal at stake here, my own view would be to effect a rapid root and branch review of the property process, seek out and prosecute coruption and bad practice ,ie mis selling and illeagal building ,yes there would be upset and disruption, but it would be relatively short lived ,and would send a clear and effective message out that times have changed,do it right ,or you will not be doing it.

    Upheavel now would be a small price to pay ,compared to what is at stake
    you cannot beat the markets,but if you work in league with them the results are substantial

  • #72611
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    Anonymous
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    GSB, Very true. We all can live with any system which is evolving. However at present people feel that appropriate/remedial actions are not being taken by the relevent sectors or profession.

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