a bit more positive news for the sceptics….

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This topic contains 56 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of angie angie 5 years, 10 months ago.

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  • #56062
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
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    Mini boom forecast for Spanish property
    By Kevin Barnett, 08 Jan 2011

    The pundits who forecast the collapse of the Spanish market last year appear to have got it wrong as the last quarter revival is swelling into a mini boom in prime areas of favourite Costas…

    In 2010, the Bank of Spain claimed properties remained 25% overvalued, while other experts reckoned it was more like 47%, given the state of the construction industry, one of the main drivers of the Spanish economy.

    Articles and surveys reflecting these views have been published in UK and northern European media. The difference on the ground is completely different, with housing sales volumes on the increase as hold-off buyers decide to take the plunge while prices bounce on the bottom. The best deals involving quality homes in prime locations have already been snapped up, resulting in grave shortages in some of the most popular areas in the Costa del Sol.

    Nick Stuart, one of the Costa del Sol affiliates of specialist website; PropertyInSpain.Net doesn’t recognise the “market collapse” scenario and is sceptical that many pundits really understand the Spanish property market.

    He said: “Because they know nothing about real estate they do not understand the nuances of the market. Many pundits don’t truly understand what international property buyers want to buy and what local people want to buy are completely different. One of the major failing in most of the analysis being carried out is they don’t factor in the amount of new money being bought into the country by the international property buyer and the motivating effect of the choice of lifestyles and great options open to non- residents, many of whom come and live in Spain on a permanent basis.”

    Nick Stuart doesn’t deny reports of “millions of properties for sale in Spain” but says most of them have little or no appeal to international buyers.

    “This was bought home to us this week when we searched property for a buyer with a €500,000 budget and out of 14,000 properties only 12 properties actually matched his requirements and only two of them had any discount from the current market value. This highlights shortages rather than surpluses and suggests these so called experts didn’t factor supply and demand into the situation”, he added.

    The PropertyInSpain.Network covers all second home areas of Spain and offers more than 20,000 Spanish bank-owned properties and bargains from troubled developers and private owners with prices from EUR 46,500 for a 3-bed apartment to repossessed villas costing EUR 1M or more. The website offers many one-click online showcases aligned to the property searches of international buyers and the local market, generous mortgages up to 100% of the asking price and three year repayment holidays

  • #102431
    Profile photo of peterhun
    peterhun
    Participant

    LOL, thanks for laugh.

    Or should I just say, no thanks to Spam.

  • #102432
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @peterhun wrote:

    LOL, thanks for laugh.

    Or should I just say, no thanks to Spam.

    Yeah, ok maybe I should have taken off the end bit, I was not intending this to come across as spam, I just read it and copied and pasted it.
    Laugh all you like though,
    not sure about the Costa del Sol, but where I am based the good ones are going and will go, that it what he is mainly referrring to, not the crap ones no one wants, we all know they will sit around for years to come…

    I only pasted it because of that part about demand will be higher than supply when it comes to the good properties…

    ….but I expected a few laughs from the buyers…. 😀

  • #102433
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/buff/2011/01/14/andalucian-property-market-report-2010-2011/

    this seems to be in agreement with the above also….so you can laugh, but too many reports are saying the same thing…..

  • #102429
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Both articles are laughable and I am sure there are many more on the web of the same tome 😆 Did all these people in property suddenly wake up on Jan 1st and think right we will do a re-launch and write a piece talking up the market 🙄

    The other on I have never heard of making outrageous claims. Although he could be correct in saying that he could only find a few suitable properties for the budget. Seeing the state and price of them I am not suprised.

  • #102435
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    …All I have to say on the matter is…Barbara Wood, I applaud you… you are saying exactly what I have been saying for weeks….
    The more people agree and put out news like this, the faster the market will start moving… 😀

  • #102437
    Profile photo of zoro
    zoro
    Participant

    Cutting and pasting adverts to promote one’s own agenda just smacks of desperation.

  • #102438
    Profile photo of adiep
    adiep
    Participant

    Im honestly completely bemused by any of these housing market rampers. The Spanish government have just announced what will amount to 80bn in bailouts for the Cajas (you know, those savings banks that are like UK building societies and provide mortgages). The figure of 80bn assumes that there will be 40% losses to the original lenders/investors.

    If this property market was even remotely healthy, why would these banks need thousands of millions of euros? Please somebody explain.

  • #102439
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I agree with you completely…..
    @ethnatkev wrote:

    The more people agree and put out news like this, the faster the market will start moving… DOWNWARDS!

  • #102428
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @zoro wrote:

    Cutting and pasting adverts to promote one’s own agenda just smacks of desperation.

    what do you mean like adiep, actually answering the blog on the front page, that smacks of desperation to me! Must add a note myself….

    wow, you lot just are totally against any positive news at all….

    but as none of you know what is going to happen, it is all talk really…
    I know you are desperate to get that sea view apartment for under 50% off its original value, but looks like you will have a loooonnggg looonnggg wait. Still in 10 years time there will be plenty of second line properties waiting to sell, who knows, you might even get one for over 70% off!!

    Can I just ask one question?
    You expect EVERYONE to ignore and mock any positive blogs posted or good news, but expect us all to listen to, what, 5 wannabe buyers….mmmmmm……
    Still the more good blogs like that are posted it will only serve to help the market. So keep posting them is what I say! 😀 Would you buy Ariel if they said it was rubbish on the tele? come on….you lot must know about the power of good advertising and headlines….Whether it is 100% accurate information or not, it all helps to change peoples views, and hopefully to stimulate the market in Spain.
    And lets face it….what she said does make sense, the market has to start improving somewhere and at some point…and the quality well located properties will go first. She also said that the good ones will only sell if they are priced right for the market, which is also true. So any marketed way overpriced, will not get a look in so those sellers will have to reduce their price if they want to sell…

    As Barbara Wood said, all the Brits were the ones who purchased all the rubbish in the boom times, and at this rate, it looks like that will be the only selection of properties left behind for you…whilst all the other europeans are sipping a sangria from their sea view balcony…. 😉

  • #102441
    Profile photo of adiep
    adiep
    Participant

    @ethnatkev wrote:

    @zoro wrote:
    Cutting and pasting adverts to promote one’s own agenda just smacks of desperation.

    what do you mean like adiep, actually answering the blog on the front page, that smacks of desperation to me! Must add a note myself….

    oh my.. 🙄

  • #102442
    Profile photo of adiep
    adiep
    Participant

    @ethnatkev wrote:

    As Barbara Wood said, all the Brits were the ones who purchased all the rubbish in the boom times, and at this rate, it looks like that will be the only selection of properties left behind for you…whilst all the other europeans are sipping a sangria from their sea view balcony…. 😉

    I think you need to calm down a bit. You’ll sell it if you drop the price enough, snapping at people on forums wont sell your property for you.

  • #102443
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @adiep wrote:

    @ethnatkev wrote:
    As Barbara Wood said, all the Brits were the ones who purchased all the rubbish in the boom times, and at this rate, it looks like that will be the only selection of properties left behind for you…whilst all the other europeans are sipping a sangria from their sea view balcony…. 😉

    I think you need to calm down a bit. You’ll sell it if you drop the price enough, snapping at people on forums wont sell your property for you.

    😆 …..snapping, where, when, who, what???!!!….anyway…..
    I could say the same for you….coming on here talking down every bit of good news won’t bag you that sea front view apartment you could never afford in the boom….At least these people who write these blogs are working on the ground and living it….I know it must have been a bitter pill to swallow waiting all these years to get your dream apartment and still waiting… but come on…lighten up a bit and try to be at least a bit positive…Hey, don’t worry, as I say, you can still get that second line for 70% off in about 10 years time.. so don’t get so wound up about it all the time…you too will be sipping your sangria from your bargain spanish apartment….in about 10 years from now…. 😀

    oh and by the way… I wouldn’t speak too soon about my property… 😉

  • #102444
    Profile photo of adiep
    adiep
    Participant

    @ethnatkev wrote:

    @adiep wrote:
    @ethnatkev wrote:
    As Barbara Wood said, all the Brits were the ones who purchased all the rubbish in the boom times, and at this rate, it looks like that will be the only selection of properties left behind for you…whilst all the other europeans are sipping a sangria from their sea view balcony…. 😉

    I think you need to calm down a bit. You’ll sell it if you drop the price enough, snapping at people on forums wont sell your property for you.

    😆 …..snapping, where, when, who, what???!!!….anyway…..
    I could say the same for you….coming on here talking down every bit of good news won’t bag you that sea front view apartment you could never afford in the boom….At least these people who write these blogs are working on the ground and living it….I know it must have been a bitter pill to swallow waiting all these years to get your dream apartment and still waiting… but come on…lighten up a bit and try to be at least a bit positive…Hey, don’t worry, as I say, you can still get that second line for 70% off in about 10 years time.. so don’t get so wound up about it all the time…you too will be sipping your sangria from your bargain spanish apartment….in about 10 years from now…. 😀

    oh and by the way… I wouldn’t speak too soon about my property… 😉

    I dont think you want any reply to the above, looks like a very emotional statement more than anything, and I guess you dont need upsetting any more than you already are, so i’ll just wish you all the best in selling so you can cheer up a bit and relax.

  • #102445
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @adiep wrote:

    I dont think you want any reply to the above, looks like a very emotional statement more than anything, and I guess you dont need upsetting any more than you already are, so i’ll just wish you all the best in selling so you can cheer up a bit and relax.

    …you still did though didn’t you…you just can’t help yourself…you should have been a comedian 😆

  • #102446
    Profile photo of adiep
    adiep
    Participant

    @ethnatkev wrote:

    @adiep wrote:

    I dont think you want any reply to the above, looks like a very emotional statement more than anything, and I guess you dont need upsetting any more than you already are, so i’ll just wish you all the best in selling so you can cheer up a bit and relax.

    …you still did though didn’t you…you just can’t help yourself…you should have been a comedian 😆

    ok cuddles, we all know your nursing a bad case of negative equity, but you dont need to get all irate with me about it. I didnt force you to buy in the boom and sell in the bust, so just chill out.

  • #102447
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @adiep wrote:

    @ethnatkev wrote:
    @adiep wrote:

    I dont think you want any reply to the above, looks like a very emotional statement more than anything, and I guess you dont need upsetting any more than you already are, so i’ll just wish you all the best in selling so you can cheer up a bit and relax.

    …you still did though didn’t you…you just can’t help yourself…you should have been a comedian 😆

    ok cuddles, we all know your nursing a bad case of negative equity, but you dont need to get all irate with me about it. I didnt force you to buy in the boom and sell in the bust, so just chill out.

    oh dear…..when someone has to get personal it is a sign they are losing the argument…you talk about my personal life the same way you talk about the spanish property market, assumptions is all you have to offer…not that it is any of your business but I am not in negative equity. Lucky enough for me I paid cash for half the amount of the purchase price, in the boom you also made good money, well some of us did anyway… so you don’t need to worry about that old timer….To be honest I don’t need to sell at all right now, I just want to, big difference….I have turned down one offer and will do so again if the price isn’t right… I will wait 5 to 10 years if I have to….no hurry from my end…however you seem very irrate in wanting this market to bottom out so you can buy, why would you spend every waking hour on here otherwise?…..I think you are in more of a hurry to buy than I am to sell. I have seen you have a tendency to get personal with people on this forum….I think you really need to take a chill pill…
    Funny thing is though, I only posted a blog from Marks home page and all of these personal attacks… 😕 oooohhhh I think all of this has certainly hit a nerve hasn’t it adiep….I think you are actually getting worried that buyers and sellers will start believing all these headlines, and the market might start moving after all, at these still obviously unaffordable prices for you…now I understand why you felt the need to put your opinion on the blog so quickly….no need to get so personal though, bit childish really… 😕 ….and yet again…for the second time….I will leave this discussion here, and let adiep have his final say as he always seems to….bye bye adiep…

  • #102448
    Profile photo of adiep
    adiep
    Participant

    I dont see how stating you are in negative equity is getting personal. If you purchased in 06/07 and put in 50% of your own cash, then its an unfortunate fact, you will be in negative equity.

    (has he lost the plot?)

  • #102449
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Not if you purchased a property below the market price back then because it needed a complete refurb…. in with the bank manager, (still am…) who knew someone who knew someone else…. so grabed myself a bargain, did it up ourselves with family help, so got a fantastic deal…and in the boom!!!! Sorry to dissappoint you….I wasn’t one of those “greedy investors” you despise…sorry…yawn, getting bored now… bye again….

  • #102450
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hey guys and girls lets not get into a slanging match.

    Ms E I am guessing from adeip’s handle that he posts a lot on Edward Hughes facebook page, so he’s watching the economic market closely and hence has a reason to have strong views on the direction of the property market.

    I have my property for sale on fotocasa and would like it to sell as I am afraid for me the love affair of Spain has died, even though my wife is Spanish! So even though I have a vested interest in a strong market I have to be honest and say that Spain is in for a very hard time for the next few years.

    Most people who are following what is happening to the global economy, Europe and EMU members don’t have a rosie outlook. Spain in particular has some serious problems.

    Just look at where we are.

    20% unemployment
    1.5 million homes for sale (The real figure is probably 2~3 million)
    Uncompetitive economy
    Strong unions and labour laws that protect the worker making employment expensive
    A poor reputation outside of Spain for widespread property corruption
    Austerity measures to increase
    No Foreign buyers
    Previous Foreign buyers now turning to foreign seller
    Interest rates only have one direction to move (UP!)

    And finally a bailout around the corner where Spain will lose fiscal control and be dictated to for things like taxes, retirement age, public worker salaries etc.

    What a bailout means is the Spanish people working longer and becoming poorer in the process.

    Also there is the real possibility of a two Euro system whereby Spanish Euros devalue by 20~30% (How that will work I have no idea).

    Those articles are pure pieces of fiction, anyone would have to be seriously deluded to think that Spanish Property has reached the bottom. Spanish property devaluation is well under way but it has a lot further to go before we reach the bottom. I also feel that that bottom will be a long one as well.

  • #102451
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Almost two years ago I posted on here pointing out that, despite the fact that the market had been falling for three years by then, there was a regular supply of ‘news’ articles saying what a good time it was to buy.

    http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4269

    In the time since then the market has continued to fall and any independent analysis leads to a conclusion that this downturn still has some way to go.

    These articles are no different to the ones I highlighted back then. They are simply puff pieces being put out by those with a vested interest in talking the market up. They have no basis in fact.

  • #102452
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    If you are in the property business in Spain or have a connection to it what else have you left to do in 2011?
    Twiddle your thumbs, whilst you play the desk.
    Get another job. Not many of those however.
    Move back to your original country and start again.
    Dream up positive articles to convince potential buyers now is a great time to buy. (see yesterdays Sunday Times)
    Post on internet property sites that things are getting better. Doh!

  • #102453
    Profile photo of adiep
    adiep
    Participant

    JP & Brian, many of us have taken time and tried to explain all this to ethnatkev, he’s having none of it and seems to be on some sort of crusade to prove the market is alive an well – youve seen his, invest now or “miss the boat” crap. Which in itself would be fine if it was even remotely true, unfortunately its not and his daft views need to be constantly crushed less he manages to convince some poor schmuck who happens upon his posts to splurge all their savings on Spanish property in the belief that they’ll be making a killing in the near future or are about to miss the boat.

    I think most of us agree on advice for buyers; buy if you need to or find something you love and are in it for the long term, dont buy under the belief that its the bottom of the market and you’ll make a killing or some other crap that you’ll miss the boat. Its simply not true.

  • #102455
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    Adiep is correct but don’t make it personal.

  • #102456
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    adiep
    Participant

    Ive avoided making it personal, look through his posts, he has yet accuses me of it. 🙄

  • #102458
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @adiep wrote:

    JP & Brian, many of us have taken time and tried to explain all this to ethnatkev, he’s having none of it and seems to be on some sort of crusade to prove the market is alive an well – youve seen his, invest now or “miss the boat” crap. Which in itself would be fine if it was even remotely true, unfortunately its not and his daft views need to be constantly crushed less he manages to convince some poor schmuck who happens upon his posts to splurge all their savings on Spanish property in the belief that they’ll be making a killing in the near future or are about to miss the boat.

    I think most of us agree on advice for buyers; buy if you need to or find something you love and are in it for the long term, dont buy under the belief that its the bottom of the market and you’ll make a killing or some other crap that you’ll miss the boat. Its simply not true.

    …you are so bothered about proving a point, you are completely missing the point I am trying to make.
    I know and we all know that it will take the British years and years to start investing in Spain, I can understand…. All I have been saying is that, Spanish have started buying again, well to be honest they have been since 2009! Slowly, yes, but they have been buying and keeping their eye on the market. It may come as a shock to you all, but there have been sales in 2010! And what do you think has sold then, all the rubbish ones?… I doubt it very much….And there are only so many good ones for sale, so there will come a point when demand outstrips supply when it comes to the good stock.

    Spanish and others have been haggling on the good stock before all the international buyers start jumping in. As this Barbara Wood and many others have said…. the good ones WILL sell for a lower price than in 2006/7, BUT they are selling and will sell, where as the rubbish will sit there for years to come and probably drop by as much as up to 70% from the asking price.

    Adiep, grow up and yes, you are getting personal. I have NEVER said you will make a killing if you buy now, you are talking rubbish as per usual…I am entitled to comment on here as much as you are, we will have to agree to disagree. You are a savvy buyer, and you will spend the next 10 years talking down the market, but that will not stop other europeans from starting to look at the good stock on offer. So stop accusing me of telling you to invest, I could not give a monkeys whether you personally invest or not. You are just worried in case any positive news does start moving the market before it has dropped to the level you can afford. Adiep, you will NEVER get that front line apartment for 70% lower than it was in 2007, so get used to it….A savvy Spanish buyer will, at a reduced price but not by the amounts you are counting on..

    Apart from that, to other readers of the forum, dont’ let this put you off of posting positive comments regardless of whether it annoys the few buyers on here.
    Keep the good news coming…

  • #102461
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    @ethnatkev wrote:

    Apart from that, to other readers of the forum, dont’ let this put you off of posting positive comments regardless of whether it annoys the few buyers on here.
    Keep the good news coming…

    You also make snide personal attacks. I would welcome some positive signs the market was recovering if it were true. The stuff you churn out has little basis for serious investors.
    Most market pundits with a wide breadth of knowledge and insight of Spain’s economic prospects have nothing positive to report. It’s all negative. So why you keep insisting to the contrary baffles me.
    If I and other investors believed for one moment the market was stirring we would hot-foot it down to Spain and snap up all the so called ‘bargains’ I’m offered on a daily basis. Chance of a lifetime? Not.

  • #102462
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @logan wrote:

    If you are in the property business in Spain or have a connection to it what else have you left to do in 2011?
    Twiddle your thumbs, whilst you play the desk.
    Get another job. Not many of those however.
    Move back to your original country and start again.
    Dream up positive articles to convince potential buyers now is a great time to buy. (see yesterdays Sunday Times)
    Post on internet property sites that things are getting better. Doh!

    …well, you posted this one only, what was it… a week ago…
    http://www.oportunidadescam.es/Chalet_independientes-en-Montroy-5-dormitorios/1542/vivienda_2256.html
    and it is now reserved…someone has reserved it….some savvy buyer…..so, there are some buyers out there who are not waiting….I think this is probably one of many examples you will start seeing….

  • #102463
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @logan wrote:

    @ethnatkev wrote:
    Apart from that, to other readers of the forum, dont’ let this put you off of posting positive comments regardless of whether it annoys the few buyers on here.
    Keep the good news coming…

    You also make snide personal attacks. I would welcome some positive signs the market was recovering if it were true. The stuff you churn out has little basis for serious investors.
    Most market pundits with a wide breadth of knowledge and insight of Spain’s economic prospects have nothing positive to report. It’s all negative. So why you keep insisting to the contrary baffles me.
    If I and other investors believed for one moment the market was stirring we would hot-foot it down to Spain and snap up all the so called ‘bargains’ I’m offered on a daily basis. Chance of a lifetime? Not.

    …some people just want a home…most spanish do anyway…they are the ones looking to move to larger properties with their families…into properties they could never afford before…
    I had a viewing in my property this weekend..someone who looked at it in 2007 when it was on for the boom price, they have come back as it now fits their budget…so you see, not everyone is a serious investor, they just want that home they could not afford in 2007… Just stating facts here…nothing else…

  • #102464
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @logan wrote:

    @ethnatkev wrote:
    Apart from that, to other readers of the forum, dont’ let this put you off of posting positive comments regardless of whether it annoys the few buyers on here.
    Keep the good news coming…

    You also make snide personal attacks. I would welcome some positive signs the market was recovering if it were true. The stuff you churn out has little basis for serious investors.
    Most market pundits with a wide breadth of knowledge and insight of Spain’s economic prospects have nothing positive to report. It’s all negative. So why you keep insisting to the contrary baffles me.
    If I and other investors believed for one moment the market was stirring we would hot-foot it down to Spain and snap up all the so called ‘bargains’ I’m offered on a daily basis. Chance of a lifetime? Not.

    …the only reaon I wrote that is because it is a fact! every time someone posts a comment they get laughed at or told to shut up talking nonsense…if that is not rude and personally attacking I don’t know what is! sorry to upset you and your chum buddy adiep, it was obvious you would side with him anyway…

  • #102465
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    Yes my example was worth a punt with a price drop. There are many examples of individual value across the country. Spain’s a big place, that does not indicate however in any way the market is recovering. It simply means the Caja’s in particular are getting more realistic after huge pressure from central government and the Bank of Spain to off load their none performing assets.

  • #102466
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @logan wrote:

    @ethnatkev wrote:
    Apart from that, to other readers of the forum, dont’ let this put you off of posting positive comments regardless of whether it annoys the few buyers on here.
    Keep the good news coming…

    You also make snide personal attacks. I would welcome some positive signs the market was recovering if it were true. The stuff you churn out has little basis for serious investors.
    Most market pundits with a wide breadth of knowledge and insight of Spain’s economic prospects have nothing positive to report. It’s all negative. So why you keep insisting to the contrary baffles me.
    If I and other investors believed for one moment the market was stirring we would hot-foot it down to Spain and snap up all the so called ‘bargains’ I’m offered on a daily basis. Chance of a lifetime? Not.

    ok then Logan, answer these questions if you can with a yes or no (not with some politicians essay trying to avoid the initial question, which you lot are great at by the way…)

    Is it true that the good properties will sell before the rubbish ones in Spain at no so much of a drop as the crap ones?
    Is is true that properties HAVE sold in 2010?

    SOMEONE purchased those sold properties in 2010, as properties will also sell in 2011, and the ones that will sell will be the good stock…Live in denial all you like. This is all I have ever stated
    I have never said you will make a killing if you buy now… I have never said you should “invest” now… I have just quoted the above time and time again…but as you all seem to think that avoiding what I am saying and going off on one, is making your argument look more credible then go ahead…

  • #102467
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @logan wrote:

    Yes my example was worth a punt with a price drop. There are many examples of individual value across the country. Spain’s a big place, that does not indicate however in any way the market is recovering. It simply means the Caja’s in particular are getting more realistic after huge pressure from central government and the Bank of Spain to off load their none performing assets.

    Exactly my point….you are all generalising the property market in Spain too much….this is exactly what Barbara Wood said in that blog you are all having a pop at….
    The bad stock will sit there, the good stock will go… this is one of the “many examples of individual value across the country” as you so rightly put it…

    In the UK, the north suffered more of a drop in prices than the south… so you see, you cannot qoute that the whole of Spain will go the same way, that is simply untrue….

    This is why I am saying, if you read her blog, a lot of it is spot on!

  • #102468
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Ethnakev,

    I note that five out of the last six posts on this thread have been made by you. Now you do have a valid viewpoint however much some of us may disagree with you and you are entitled to air it. That said you are now coming over as somewhat obsessed.

    Can I suggest that you think a bit more before hitting the submit button? It is usually the case on forums such as this that less is more.

  • #102470
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @brianc_li wrote:

    Ethnakev,

    I note that five out of the last six posts on this thread have been made by you. Now you do have a valid viewpoint however much some of us may disagree with you and you are entitled to air it. That said you are now coming over as somewhat obsessed.

    Can I suggest that you think a bit more before hitting the submit button? It is usually the case on forums such as this that less is more.

    brianc-li, another one getting personal……..and can I just laugh at the less is more comment 😆 you lot go on and on and on…..if you don’t want to read it then don’t, I don’t enjoy your posts either…
    I know you would like to lose one of the only sellers posting on here, to avoid all this disruption to your daily moans and groans but I ain’t going no where 😆

  • #102471
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Ethnatkev why do you keep quoting Barbara Wood in every post. She is selling an expensive service to spanish property buyers. You saw my comments (which have been censored 🙄 ) and surely you have looked at her website. Why would she say anything negative.

    BTW she doesn’t even live in Spain!

  • #102472
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I can understand the lone seller’s frustrations – this forum is bouncing with Eurosceptics who delight in running down any positive news about Spain, while spewing out their daily bile.

    And if someone points out their shortcomings, they will immediately get personal and start name-calling – I’ve been a recipient of it many times, from all the participants in this thread, with the exception of Brian.

    There is silly misinformation all over the place at the start of this difficult year, and prices are likely to fall all over the place as the austerity measures take hold. I’ve got no idea what will happen to Spanish prices in the short term, but I have a more realistic view of the entire thing than those daft Eurosceptics posting their tiresome propaganda.

  • #102473
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Rocker wrote:

    I can understand the lone seller’s frustrations – this forum is bouncing with Eurosceptics who delight in running down any positive news about Spain, while spewing out their daily bile.

    And if someone points out their shortcomings, they will immediately get personal and start name-calling – I’ve been a recipient of it many times, from all the participants in this thread, with the exception of Brian.

    There is silly misinformation all over the place at the start of this difficult year, and prices are likely to fall all over the place as the austerity measures take hold. I’ve got no idea what will happen to Spanish prices in the short term, but I have a more realistic view of the entire thing than those daft Eurosceptics posting their tiresome propaganda.

    Thankyou Rocker, I know you have had your fair share of abuse on here also…But don’t worry, it’s my turn now…but they will turn on you again in a minute….Still, it will not stop me from voicing my personal views….It doesn’t frustrate me, it makes me laugh 😆

    And Katy, I am only quoting her name as the reason for all this abuse was because I posted the link to her blog, which was posted on here by Mark anyway on the front page! PLUS, sorry, but what she says, makes sense…no wonder Mark censored your comments, maybe a few more should get censored for good from certain people….

    I actually feel sorry for Mark, he has a great site here, but no wonder the forums aren’t busy and have the same old punters on here and no new ones…because they must read the abuse people get and are put off posting their views….mind you I do take it with a pinch of salt, as they don’t know for sure themselves anyway….its all speculation…. 🙄

  • #102476
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Yes quite a few on here would like to see my posts and a few others censored.

    Most Spanish forums are dying or much quieter than they were a few years ago. The other one I am on (A.com) is quiet too. Not because of negative comments as more day to day things are discussed. They are quiet because many ex-pats have left Spain for good and there is little interest in moving to Spain unlike a few years ago.

    This is supposed to be an insight into spanish property matters and pointing out that B.Woods charges £900+vat (non-refundable!) PLUS 2.5% of the purchase price to find a property should actually be considered when reading between the lines. If she is going to keep churning these article out to every UK newspaper I wish she would take a course in communication skills…dreadfully long paragraphs make it painful to plod through 😉

    If you are going to quote her in every flipping post then I should have the right to point out her views may be coloured by the above!

  • #102477
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    Yes quite a few on here would like to see my posts and a few others censored.

    Most Spanish forums are dying or much quieter than they were a few years ago. The other one I am on (A.com) is quiet too. Not because of negative comments as more day to day things are discussed. They are quiet because many ex-pats have left Spain for good and there is little interest in moving to Spain unlike a few years ago.

    This is supposed to be an insight into spanish property matters and pointing out that B.Woods charges £900+vat (non-refundable!) PLUS 2.5% of the purchase price to find a property should actually be considered when reading between the lines. If she is going to keep churning these article out to every UK newspaper I wish she would take a course in communication skills…dreadfully long paragraphs make it painful to plod through 😉

    If you are going to quote her in every flipping post then I should have the right to point out her views may be coloured by the above!

    Yes, point them out…I’ts good to hear other peoples opinions….

    sorry but….I kind of tend to agree with Mark on this one though…..

    his words: …”here is some feedback from two professionals working at the front line of the market, who are in a better position than most to judge what is happening on their patch”

    sorry, I know you don’t like me pasting positve links…but here is the link so you can read the full blog:

    http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/buff/2011/01/17/reports-from-the-front-line-better-than-recent-headlines-suggest/

  • #102478
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    You don’t have to link Mark’s blog as I always read it. That his is opinion not mine.

    Going back to negative comments. I post the truth as I see it without any hidden agenda. If a few of those who you say post negative left why would anyone bother to read this forum? It would just be like any of the hundreds of property agents websites with their flowery comments about Spain!

  • #102479
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    You don’t have to link Mark’s blog as I always read it. That his is opinion not mine.

    Going back to negative comments. I post the truth as I see it without any hidden agenda. If a few of those who you say post negative left why would anyone bother to read this forum? It would just be like any of the hundreds of property agents websites with their flowery comments about Spain!

    I like the way you all quickly disregard what matters, and change the subject 😆

    I would take his opinion over others any day! 😀

  • #102480
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Do you mean changing the subject from this

    is words: …”here is some feedback from two professionals working at the front line of the market, who are in a better position than most to judge what is happening on their patch”

    My lips are sealed…it would only be snipped anyway 😆

  • #102481
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    Do you mean changing the subject from this

    is words: …”here is some feedback from two professionals working at the front line of the market, who are in a better position than most to judge what is happening on their patch”

    My lips are sealed…it would only be snipped anyway 😆

    …no, I mean, all the abuse I have been getting over the two blogs I pasted…you lot saying how they are talking a load of rubbish….but it appears Mark thinks they are in a better position than most to judge what is happening to the market…..take the hint! 😆

    everyone else has gone extremely quite….I wonder why…. 😆

  • #102524
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    So my posting that B.Wood and others are writing rubbish is abusing you 😯 Get a grip!

  • #102813
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    So my posting that B.Wood and others are writing rubbish is abusing you 😯 Get a grip!

    calm down Katy….oh dear…. all of this is certainly hitting a nerve with many….you are twisting what I am saying…read back the posts and you will see that everyone has been jumping down my throat with my every comment…. I was not referring to you personally…. calm down, and stop changing the subject….. 🙄
    ….so what are your views on the fact that Mark thinks that those two, who you have slaughtered by the way, are in a better position to judge than most…. ?…Don’t take it personally, I don’t think he means you lot…. I doubt it very much… but he might be! but I doubt it….he coudln’t, could he!!?? 😮

  • #102814
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    I’ve missed all this fun as have been away, but what ethnatkev is saying is barmy 😆

    Lots of informed here and elsewhere know that Spain is seriously damaged goods, and the exchange rate for Brits and Sovereign Debt worries, plus high completion costs and the lack of credible action by the Spanish Gov’t, make buying in Spain a serious risk unless for a long term and lifestyle choice 🙄

  • #102815
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @angie wrote:

    I’ve missed all this fun as have been away, but what ethnatkev is saying is barmy 😆

    Lots of informed here and elsewhere know that Spain is seriously damaged goods, and the exchange rate for Brits and Sovereign Debt worries, plus high completion costs and the lack of credible action by the Spanish Gov’t, make buying in Spain a serious risk unless for a long term and lifestyle choice 🙄

    Here comes another one…excuse me….I am not saying it….the: two professionals working at the front line of the market, who are in a better position than most to judge what is happening on their patch 🙂 are saying it… and Mark very kindly highlighted it for you all on his blog…. 😀

    and your quote…”unless for a long term and lifestyle choice” is EXACTLY what I have been saying all along, actually that is ALL I have been saying… plus, I have always said it will take years for Brits to want to invest in Spain again…so you do agree also…thanks for that :lol:, by the way, what exactly is it that you don’t agree with me on?

  • #102816
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    You’re quoting what so called property experts are saying. They generally talk markets up whether they are in UK, Spain or anywhere.

    Nick Stuart himself says the millions of unsold properties will not appeal to international buyers, so who’s going to take up the slack, until they sell, Spanish property prices will remain depressed?

    Lifestyle, and long term I said, but that won’t mean as it was in the past, the masses won’t be buying again because of Spain’s reputation fro fraud and mis-selling, plus the doubts over so many illegal builds out there. Brits in general are now cash-strapped and can’t remortgage their UK homes as before either, plus the exchange rate of 1.15-1.20 average compared to when I bought at 1.64 average plus the still ridiculously high completion costs of 10-11% make it prohibitive to buy still!

    The Sovereign Debt issues are not over yet in Spain, no-one in their right mind would buy now if they want to preserve their investment, if it’s purely lifestyle for years, then that’s their choice.

    So what with exhorbitant buying costs, almost as bad selling costs, one’s property in Spain must increase in price by something like 16-20% just to break even, a tall order in these markets, most people expect a profit, so increase would need to be 25%+ to make any sense financially.

    Of course if the property is legal, and has dropped by a genuine 50% or so, is in an exclusive area, has reasonable outgoings, is a unique property too, one of only a few, is actually built correctly and well built, has not got blocked views now, has a low crime rate locally, not within earshot of barking dogs and shouting neighbours, has good road access etc yes, then one has a chance of a good lifestyle in a property that will increase provided Spain doesn’t go bankrupt 😆

  • #102616
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    Where has Charlie gone?

    Just when a poster needs some good advice.

    Ethnatkev, I hear where you are coming from, and so do the rest of the guys, I think they meant well when they were telling you to not get so distressed, you have made some great posts, but you have to take the flak here also.

    Just put on the Tin Hat, you can win an argument here or two on here, and you can respond to some of the digs you will get now and again, and you have to read between the lines, certainly a lot of the so called ‘negative’ types do say some very positive and good stuff. Took me years to realise that, and I am sort of pally now with people who used to hammer the hell out of me, and still do if I put the slightest foot wrong.

    Charlie used to be a good moderator in that regard, where is Charlie when you need her?

    Just keep smiling and debating Ethnatkev, win some, lose some, and definitely don’t take it too seriously. We probably none of us know what we talking about anyway! 😉

  • #102617
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Although I would advise Spanish sellers to wait a year, or at least until the end of this awkward year before selling, the market could change very quickly for a number of reasons:

    The Euro is seriously overvalued, especially against the Dollar, and the pound to a lesser extent, and the ECB, with ambitions to replace the Dollar as the reserve currency may take steps to devalue (which won’t be easy).

    Large numbers of British expats in the US are returning home, for various reasons, mostly connected with the ever-stricter immigration laws, and a lot of them pick Spain as their chosen destination; a country that welcomes them and respects their rights (OK, I know about the abuses of the past).

    The austerity redundancies in the UK’s public sector will lead to a large number of those people choosing to come to Spain with their redundancy money and adequate pensions.

    The rich Scandinavians are already queuing up to buy properties in Spain, it has always been their chosen vacation and retirement destination. (Closely followed by the equally rich Germans).

    Should the pound Sterling climb to its previous high level against the Euro, the second wave of immigrants from the UK will be on its way. Margaret Thatcher caused the first wave of disgruntled emigrants leaving the UK, this ridiculous coalition could well cause one of even greater proportions.

  • #102633
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Actually Rocker I do agree with you when mentioning Scandinavians etc (incs. other Eurozone) members buying in Spain simply because they won’t have the dire exchange rate problems that Brits have. 🙂

    And, I also agree that there could well be a 2nd wave of Brits wishing to relocate to the sun as you say, due to austerity cuts, already grumblings re the Coalition as well as Cameron himself, who seems to be losing popularity fast even with Tory voters.

    However, these Brits would be well advised to maybe wait a year for Sovereign Debt probs to pass, exchange rate to improve etc, so possibly rent in Spain first.

    A well constructed argument/reply is not always shouted down by us! 😉

  • #102636
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @angie wrote:

    Actually Rocker I do agree with you when mentioning Scandinavians etc (incs. other Eurozone) members buying in Spain simply because they won’t have the dire exchange rate problems that Brits have. 🙂

    And, I also agree that there could well be a 2nd wave of Brits wishing to relocate to the sun as you say, due to austerity cuts, already grumblings re the Coalition as well as Cameron himself, who seems to be losing popularity fast even with Tory voters.

    However, these Brits would be well advised to maybe wait a year for Sovereign Debt probs to pass, exchange rate to improve etc, so possibly rent in Spain first.

    A well constructed argument/reply is not always shouted down by us! 😉

    …Rocker you must be in a state of shock, because I certainly am, this must be the first time I have heard a positive answer to a positve comment…..nice one angie 🙂

  • #102637
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    there are buyers i know a russian who i recently did some work for has just bought a €500,000 villa but as he said it was with money he had already in euro’s and its a life style buy rather than a investment.he thought it was the right time for him as he had been looking for ages and the property had dropped in price and was what he had been looking for

  • #102638
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @dartboy wrote:

    there are buyers i know a russian who i recently did some work for has just bought a €500,000 villa but as he said it was with money he had already in euro’s and its a life style buy rather than a investment.he thought it was the right time for him as he had been looking for ages and the property had dropped in price and was what he had been looking for

    I know what you mean, someone wanted to view my villa. They only have a 400.000 euros budget, IN CASH, they are looking for a house for thier son for his new family and they don’t want him to have a mortgage as they have never had one themselves!!! so did not want to spend a penny more….How the other half live…. 😕 I didn’t even bother doing the viewing as that is their budget so no point even showing them around. So most of the ones who are out looking are the cash buyers who don’t need a mortgage at the moment…the estate agent said a lot of buyers who she has had through the door are cash buyers.

  • #102642
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Angie mentioning the dire exchange rate reminded me of the UK inflation news this morning, with an interest rate rise predicted later in the year. Good news for savers, but not good news for people struggling to pay their mortgage.

    The pound Sterling has struggled against the Euro for three to four years now, and has been kept artificially low by the Bank of England to help British exports, causing several well-known currency traders to fail when they miscalculated the timing for the inevitable rise of the pound back to normal levels.

    I don’t think the historic association between the pound and the Dollar has helped the UK because the Dollar is now playing under a set of different rules (printing more of them), and we seem top have turned our back on QE.

    The bank rate in the UK has got to rise from 0.5 at some stage, to at least equal the EU rate, but I think the BoE will propel it much higher, possibly even in this year of chaos.

  • #102681
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    I think most on here know my views on Spanish property and Euro property in general, I’m not bullish about it at all, however whilst I don’t agree generally with say Rocker’s views and Ehtnatkev’s, I did really think Rocker had a couple of reasoned points in thst post.

    For reasons often mentioned by me and others, I think there are still too many negatives at the moment to buy in Spain, for Brits, and these may persist for another year or so, and even when passed, I don’t think masses of Brits will buy again.

    This post is not to stir up trouble, it forms my views on the market. 😉

    I’ve just started a new topic about ‘Buying now, the Maths still don’t add up’, based on just an example. 🙄

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